Dragonflight Alpha Feedback - Evokers and Dragonriding

[Lucetia]

So if you think dragon riding is so bad you just can't stand to do it, the best thing to do would be to go play something else and wait until they unlock normal flying.

Actually that is the worst thing a game can do. A game wants to be compelling enough that even if you dislike an aspect of it that it is still overall enjoyable. If dragonriding is forced down our throats and people dislike it then Blizzard loses money from subs.

Hoaw abo9ut you not tell people what to do? Who made you dictator of who should and should not play the game?

That's actually kind of funny coming from you since you were telling people in the "A New Deal" thread that they should only PvP if they want PvP cosmetics. Now you are upset someone is telling you that you should Dragonride lol

[Rageonit]

Actually that is the worst thing a game can do. A game wants to be compelling enough that even if you dislike an aspect of it that it is still overall enjoyable. If dragonriding is forced down our throats and people dislike it then Blizzard loses money from subs.

It's rather self-explanatory that it's better for the game to be enjoyed rather than to not be enjoyed - all I'm saying is that normal flying will make a comeback, and if worst comes to worst (read: you really HATE dragon riding), you can wait for that to happen. Or suffer through it, if that's what you prefer (I'm really not trying to tell you what to do).

And when it comes to dragon riding itself: well, yeah, no feature is going to be universally loved. If - and Blizzard pretty much confirmed it already - Dragonflight zones and quests are desgined specifically with dragon riding in mind, it would be weird to negate all the effort by allowing normal mounts since release. So yeah, it looks like you WILL have to suffer through it (provided you do hate it, because who knows?). I think the saving grace for Blizzard is the reaction of people who actually did try it - I think all of the streamers I've watched universally love it.

[Lucetia]

I think the saving grace for Blizzard is the reaction of people who actually did try it - I think all of the streamers I've watched universally love it.

Which to be fair is really bad feedback / way to look at it currently right now. Remember it's the first time the feature has been in and it's the only way to navigate faster than a ground mount. People hate using ground mounts at the start of an expansion especially in zones that have constant slopes going on, Zuldazar for example. So of course people are going to love it because the alternative is a lot worse. Once flying is enabled and/or it's been more than a couple months then we'll have a better idea of how people feel about it.

People loved a lot of the features Blizzard put in the past but after a couple months / patches they grew tired, bored or irritated over it. A lot of people loved Island Expeditions, Warfronts, Scenarios, Garrisons, etc but after a month or so they started the whole "this is the worst thing ever" rant.

[rrayy]

How can I tell people what to do? I don't make the game, devs do. They tell you what to do; it's their job - I've only commented on it.
You people really are as fragile as snowflakes sometimes.

YOu literally told them to go play another game.

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That's actually kind of funny coming from you since you were telling people in the "A New Deal" thread that they should only PvP if they want PvP cosmetics. Now you are upset someone is telling you that you should Dragonride lol

Nice disingenuous argument. I never told anyone to go play another game if you don't want to do something, All I said is play the content being required for the rewards if you want the rewards. Not even close to the same thing.

[Rageonit]

YOu literally told them to go play another game.

No, I said that IF they hate it, it WOULD be an option to wait for normal flying to unlock. It's a conditional sentence, not an imperative sentence. If you can't distinguish them, going back to school might help.

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Which to be fair is really bad feedback / way to look at it currently right now. Remember it's the first time the feature has been in and it's the only way to navigate faster than a ground mount. People hate using ground mounts at the start of an expansion especially in zones that have constant slopes going on, Zuldazar for example. So of course people are going to love it because the alternative is a lot worse.

All the feedback I've seen and heard appreciated it for what it is; not as an alternative to ground mounts. I didn't hear anyone say: "It's better than nothing" or "It's better than having to use ground mounts". I've heard, however, people praising it for being more fun than flying AND a faster way of traveling. If you've heard otherwise (from people who are actually playing, not the usual mmo champion bunch), I'd gladly hear it myself.

[Redroniksre]

The WoW community is by far my favorite. "Look at this cool new feature" "Awesome! Now can we gut it and go back to the old, zero interaction way of doing things?". As long as they are timely with the release of regular flying, Dragonriding should still be the far faster and more efficient option. Regular flying should still be around for people who love to afk or who can't deal with Dragonriding for other accessibility issues.

[Gigantique]

The only valid argument I see is that dragonriding removes the ability to run to the bathroom or refill your drink while still moving to your next objective. Efficiency as it looks is far higher with dragonriding. Engagement/fun is higher because zero is a very easy bar to beat. (As in OG flying has zero fun or engagement because it's a convenience tool and nothing else. Swimming has more engagement because of the breath bar).

Sure people that treat any activity outside of M+/raids//rpvp as something they want to be as mindless as possible doing are negatively impacted by this. But I wouldn't say that standpoint should dictate anything, just like LFR-only players shouldn't get to dictate stuff for Heroic/Mythic raiding etc.

Personally I'm excited af because the most fun open world period to me is when flying is locked and I use toys cleverly to max out my momentum (Legion anyone?) Not so much in SL tho because verticality was basically zero and zones were disconnected...

[oldgeezer]

Well have fun being left behind then. Because with how fast just the base dragonriding is, people using it will just zoom past anyone using a normal flying mount.

I'm extremely relaxed about that. Let the Super Nintendo flyboys have their fun.

[Lucetia]

I've heard, however, people praising it for being more fun than flying AND a faster way of traveling. If you've heard otherwise (from people who are actually playing, not the usual mmo champion bunch), I'd gladly hear it myself.

As I mentioned above you likely aren't going to hear that at all. You will hear that roughly a month or two after the expansion launches. History has shown this to be the case and I doubt Dragonriding will be any different from the others.

My main point is right now all the feedback you hear right now is going to be glowing and you likely won't hear much negative. That does not mean it is a good feature or that people enjoy it specifically. Just that they are in the "honeymoon" phase where they like it but the true test is how they feel about it a month or two of it being on live realms, not on Alpha/Beta.

The other problem is the Alpha and Beta will test only a small subset of the player base. Once it is live we'll see a lot more problems with it likely due to different accessibility options that are presented to the player base through different disabilities. It's like in WoD Grimrail was was fine and they didn't have an issue. Once it was released to the masses then there were a lot of complaints about motion sickness. There are other examples, but that was the first one in my head.

[Xilurm]

This honestly looks fun. It doesn't look like a hinderance. It doesn't look boring or anything. Really don't understand the hate.

[Rageonit]

As I mentioned above you likely aren't going to hear that at all. You will hear that roughly a month or two after the expansion launches. History has shown this to be the case and I doubt Dragonriding will be any different from the others.

My main point is right now all the feedback you hear right now is going to be glowing and you likely won't hear much negative. That does not mean it is a good feature or that people enjoy it specifically. Just that they are in the "honeymoon" phase where they like it but the true test is how they feel about it a month or two of it being on live realms, not on Alpha/Beta.

So the position you're coming from is essentially: "Never trust any positive feedback, because it's most likely people glorifying something we'll come to hate in two months time..?" That's a bleak position to take, one that's completely alien to me.

Also, I simply don't care to judge it right now. I'm happy people love it, because it's awlays a good sign; and I see no reason to be suspicious because of past mistakes. People tend to forget that we've also had plenty of great features introduced that were here to stay, and that many people still enjoy. I'd rather have Blizzard take creative risks (which they are doing right now with dragonriding) than play a carbon copy of every past expansion, but with a different facade. And risks are just that, risks - something that may or may not pay off. I'm happy Blizzard takes them often, instead of giving in to constant complainers who are afraid of any change to the game.

[Lucetia]

This honestly looks fun. It doesn't look like a hinderance. It doesn't look boring or anything. Really don't understand the hate.

You are talking about an evoker ability. Everyone else is talking about Dragonriding that all classes utilize and it has a different system.

So the position you're coming from is essentially: "Never trust any positive feedback, because it's most likely people glorifying something we'll come to hate in two months time..?" That's a bleak position to take, and it's completely alien to me.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we can't just count initial feedback as the only feedback. We all know what will happen in a few months after release. If you enjoy it more power to you. I'm just saying don't over glorify it or assume there is only positive feedback. Now, I'm not saying this is exactly what you are doing, but we know how a lot of the players are easily influenced by streamers and influencers. If they say it's amazing they will then think it's the best thing ever and won't believe that anyone can hate it.

[Xilurm]

You are talking about an evoker ability. Everyone else is talking about Dragonriding that all classes utilize and it has a different system.

I thought they said the Dracthyr flying was just the base level of Dragonriding. Isn't it the same system?

[Rageonit]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we can't just count initial feedback as the only feedback. We all know what will happen in a few months after release. If you enjoy it more power to you. I'm just saying don't over glorify it or assume there is only positive feedback. Now, I'm not saying this is exactly what you are doing, but we know how a lot of the players are easily influenced by streamers and influencers. If they say it's amazing they will then think it's the best thing ever and won't believe that anyone can hate it.

Well AFAIK Blizzard can only work with the feedback they're getting right now, not with the feedback they will be given in seven months time. So what's exactly the solution here? Give people normal flying on release day just to be sure nobody ever dislikes dragonriding (and god forbid unsubs, because that's clearly the end of the world as we know it)? That feels like a cowardly move - I can already see all the haters going: "Haha, Blizzard is giving us normal flying along with dragonriding, even they know it SUCKS!!!!1!!". Nah, screw that; if feedback is positive now, then all is good. Whatever happens two months after release, happens two months after release. Biting your nails over some imagined worries seems a bit counter productive.

[Gigantique]

I thought they said the Dracthyr flying was just the base level of Dragonriding. Isn't it the same system?

It is, Evoker flying is the exact same as base dragonriding but without the ability to regenerate Vigor (the resource used for bursts/wingflaps) and on a 5 min cd after landing.

Dragonriding is gonna be much more engaging and cover way more ground from being able to regenerate Vigor through speedy flying and gaining talents to make it even better (like having more baseline Vigor or reducing the regen time on the ground by half etc)

[Orby]

This honestly looks fun. It doesn't look like a hinderance. It doesn't look boring or anything. Really don't understand the hate.

The one thing I am seeing a lot of is people testing the flying out... and it has been the most positive thing about Dragonflight so far for me, I haven't seen people enjoy flying so much since... well flying :P

I may not ever return to WoW again since I unsubbed over a year ago, but its good to see the community still enjoy something :P

[Rageonit]

You are talking about an evoker ability. Everyone else is talking about Dragonriding that all classes utilize and it has a different system.

AFAIK it works exactly the same (only the racial has a long CD). If not, what are the differences?
EDIT: Okay, it's been already answered above.

[Lucetia]

AFAIK it works exactly the same (only the racial has a long CD). If not, what are the differences?
EDIT: Okay, it's been already answered above.

I believe it's pretty similar in that it's a base skeleton. Dragonriding is supposedly supposed to have a lot of "features" added to it. One of the early interviews mentioned talents and stuff as well. Now not sure if the talents make it engaging enough or aren't timegated too much

[Xilurm]

It is, Evoker flying is the exact same as base dragonriding but without the ability to regenerate Vigor (the resource used for bursts/wingflaps) and on a 5 min cd after landing.

Dragonriding is gonna be much more engaging and cover way more ground from being able to regenerate Vigor through speedy flying and gaining talents to make it even better (like having more baseline Vigor or reducing the regen time on the ground by half etc)

Not to mention once upgraded it's going to be much faster.

So yeah. I can't wait until people actually try it out and admit it's just better than normal flying.

[TriHard]

This honestly looks fun. It doesn't look like a hinderance. It doesn't look boring or anything. Really don't understand the hate.

Looks really cool but it being a 5 minute cooldown is horrendous, 2-2.5 seems more fair.

Also ofc I completely expect this to not work in PVP, that'd be way too OP