What is there for casuals?

[Shaqthefat]

Is this true though? There are pugs for everything... you get showered in loot. You can get your char heroric raid rdy so fast. It is just that you have to play the game instead of spamming the easiest dungeon available again and again and again and again and again.

Maybe not everyone can get mythic level loot in every spot... so what? Why is it this important to people to take gameplay and gear away from the top end.

If you get that... then what? It is not like you suddenly do more in the game just because you are BiS.

Loot progression is there. People just don't actually want to do work for it. And by that i mean play the game.

Badges have always been a boring sytem imho. You run the same dungeon over and over again and you can acutally calculate when you get the piece of gear. At that point they can just send it to you via mail after x-weeks.

Yeah, I would say that doing pugs for heroic or 15s disqualifies the statement of "All you need to do is log on and get gear." Pugs fall apart for both heroic and m+. Just because you join a pug doesn't mean you're going to be getting a successful run. Unless you're a tank or healer, pugging is drastically harder than finding a guild or group of friends.


And I would argue that suddenly can do more in the game because you have BIS gear, but those things aren't extra pathways to gear. If you're going to be doing +20s and above you're going to want a lot of BIS gear, same for higher end mythic raiding. The main point of all of this is that the game isn't in a point where anyone just gets free gear when they log on. They still have to successfully complete something in-order to get any form of relevant gear.

[Lplatehealer]

These are statements you make when you don't actually play the game

I do actually. retail legit takes zero effort to get gear. log on spend under an hour, get epics log off. Can not get more casual than that.

Yours are the statements you make when you don't actually play the game.

[Shaqthefat]

I do actually. retail legit takes zero effort to get gear. log on spend under an hour, get epics log off. Can not get more casual than that.

Yours are the statements you make when you don't actually play the game.

Epic quality gear, doesn't mean its good gear. And if you're spending under an hour, you're hardly getting any to begin with.

[ellieg]

Very rarely, as casual gamers could not compete with other players for raid slots, especially from that horrible "premade group finder", as they rarely have the same experience or ilevel. So it would be very unlikely they find groups. In the end, WoW nowadays is all about competition. And if there are 10 potential semi hardcore raiders, PuGs would chose them over casual gamers.



Well, if you play regularily, you would not fit into my definition. Also, having a mythic+ guild rather would make you semi hardcore, as you are part of an organized group and even play on schedules.

I log on a couple times a week to pug 1-2 m+. I slowly grind up to 15s, get ksm, and work towards high ilvl. At 275 right now. Am I casual to you? No set days, no set group, 100% pug and play randomly on nights I find time.

[ellieg]

You play every week, which is kind of regularily, or do you disagree?

Ya every week. Abt 3 hours total.

[Greyvax]

the term casual has too many definitions.

what it really means, is that you don't play every day, don't commit to raid nights with a set raid group or guild.

that said, all content can be accessed by casuals except maybe high end mythic raiding.

[Nalam the Venom]

Something I was wondering recently. Assuming theres no new big features to be announced.... what is there for casual players in Dragonflight? It, as of now, just looks like another WoD-esque: We only care about what hardcore players do. But at least WoD had the Garrison which, while kinda shit, was at least something that all players could take part in.

Where is the line drawn?

What is ”Casual” ?

I would call myself casual as i toss Tokens to M+ Boosters until i have high enough ilvl and score to do M+ 15 myself.

I don’t gear or score up ”Legit”

And i would not do any thing above +15 as i don’t see a point to do it

[Eazy]

Why not spend 10% of the time forming the group instead?

Because people want to be in groups where they're being carried. They do not know how to lead, they do not know who they should invite, they don't know any tactics. They expect others to do the job, they just want free loot while not putting any effort.

And i would not do any thing above +15 as i don’t see a point to do it

Portals and 278ilvl conduits!

[ellieg]

Well, if you play regularily it would not really be casual gameplay from my definition.

I mean if 3 hours a week is not casual to you, 8d suspect 95+% of players aren't casual. I have a baby and a wife and when the stars align that I'm not tired, I play a little at night before going to sleep and getting up at 5 am. Happens 1 maybe 2 times a week. Not set days.

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Because people want to be in groups where they're being carried. They do not know how to lead, they do not know who they should invite, they don't know any tactics. They expect others to do the job, they just want free loot while not putting any effort.



Portals and 278ilvl conduits!

Basically my point. Its not "gatekeeping" like the other poster was claiming. Its that starting a group takes a small amount of work and its easier to demand an invite and cry on the forums lol

[dragonflight10]

Final Fantasy 14 has had housing for years and people still play them... so youre assuming things and obviously completely wrong.

Besides once you develop a good system it takes less resources to update it in the future... like adding new content: new furniture, new houses and other smaller things.
But blizzard's management doesnt know what they are doing... they keep making new systems every expansion and discard the old ones, instead of making a good system and merely update it with new stuff for the next expansion and then have more developer time for actual new ideas.

Even Swtor had player housing and they kept adding new furniture on a regular basis... because its very easy to update existing system. Takes like one developer to keep modeling new stuff every patch.
Theres a reason why games like minecraft are still popular despite some content within the game being almost a decade old.

The way i see it is that blizzard want to milk people so hard like every expansion will have a feature or an interesting idea that will draw people.

They will not release multiple good systems together because why release old talent revamp and housing when you can implement them individually and get more subs aka all they care about is money

[potis]

I mean if 3 hours a week is not casual to you, 8d suspect 95+% of players aren't casual. I have a baby and a wife and when the stars align that I'm not tired, I play a little at night before going to sleep and getting up at 5 am. Happens 1 maybe 2 times a week. Not set days.

Its this new-age excuse, the casual term always moves around fitting the discussion, it doesnt matter what you actually do, people like him will always complain and move the "casual".

He literally tried to pull the "BUT YOU PLAY EVERY WEEK" argument now.

Apparently if you play 10 hours on the 3rd Saturday, you are a casual, but if you play 2 hours every Saturday for 4 Saturdays you arent a casual.

Its just lack of acceptance that some things arent how they think they are, but byproducts of their choices.

[Daedius]

"Hardcore"... lol. WoW is one of the most Casual games around, with just the difficult of dungeons and Raids, and higher tier PvP, that sets apart the difficulty.

Everything is accessible to you...

[Lolites]

"Hardcore"... lol. WoW is one of the most Casual games around, with just the difficult of dungeons and Raids, and higher tier PvP, that sets apart the difficulty.

Everything is accessible to you...

pretty much this, you put some line in m+/pvp/raids up until which its casual (seems like different for everyone), and anything below it + rest of game is casual...

[Delever]

Its this new-age excuse, the casual term always moves around fitting the discussion, it doesnt matter what you actually do, people like him will always complain and move the "casual".

He literally tried to pull the "BUT YOU PLAY EVERY WEEK" argument now.

Apparently if you play 10 hours on the 3rd Saturday, you are a casual, but if you play 2 hours every Saturday for 4 Saturdays you arent a casual.

Its just lack of acceptance that some things arent how they think they are, but byproducts of their choices.

Its actually hillarious because according to his posts his definition of casual is someone who plays like twice a month. At this point I struggle to think 2 things:
1.) Why he is keeping up a sub in the first place.
2.) Why blizzard should even bother catering to a demographic that barely engages with the game anyway.

Whether people like it or not the average demographic that blizzard caters towards are the frequent players. I wont call them casual or hardcore as these terms seem to move around a lot but what I will define the average WoW player as is the following:

A working young adult that gets back from their work and after finishing whatever they need to do around their house (that includes relationships etc) they then allocate a bit of time to their hobby before going to sleep. They usually do this every day for an average of 1-2 hours with of course some days being allocated to other things. These hours may or may not fit an organized raiding schedule of 2 times a week depending on whether they like raiding or not.

To me that is pretty average and casual and most of the people I have interacted with in the game, myself included, fit this demographic and depending on my IRL situation at any given time I either raid or I do not.

Blizzard does not cater to people that log in twice a month and never will nor should they. An MMO needs a thriving, active population to function.

[potis]

Its actually hillarious because according to his posts his definition of casual is someone who plays like twice a month. At this point I struggle to think 2 things:
1.) Why he is keeping up a sub in the first place.
2.) Why blizzard should even bother catering to a demographic that barely engages with the game anyway.

Whether people like it or not the average demographic that blizzard caters towards are the frequent players. I wont call them casual or hardcore as these terms seem to move around a lot but what I will define the average WoW player as is the following:

A working young adult that gets back from their work and after finishing whatever they need to do around their house (that includes relationships etc) they then allocate a bit of time to their hobby before going to sleep. They usually do this every day for an average of 1-2 hours with of course some days being allocated to other things. These hours may or may not fit an organized raiding schedule of 2 times a week depending on whether they like raiding or not.

To me that is pretty average and casual and most of the people I have interacted with in the game, myself included, fit this demographic and depending on my IRL situation at any given time I either raid or I do not.

Blizzard does not cater to people that log in twice a month and never will nor should they. An MMO needs a thriving, active population to function.

Blizzard caters to everyone, but lesser skilled players cant understand it, this is literally why mmo-champion even has posts, if it wasnt for that this place would be dead, its just an echo chamber of crying for things out of their understanding.

The design is obvious, if it catered to Mythic Raiders only, there would be M+0 and M+20 as M+1, not 20 different scaling variations, but its easier to refuse to accept it, and cry about it.

This lack of understanding, along with the refusal of taking responsibility for their decisions, and refusal to accept "Well, maybe i aint such a bright human specimen when it comes to this particular activity", is what triggers this delusion and these discussions, maybe they are the best plumber in their city, you cant know.

For them anyone that does anything more than what they seem as acceptable in a timeframe that again, they seem acceptable(same as casual, new definitition every other week) must be either lying, or whatever makes them feel better.

Had the discussions multiple times, its a waste of time, to keep trying, just let them spam their echo chamber while your roll your eyes.

And simply got back to playing 4-8 hr/week (8hr at new patch cause you do 4+ M+ and not 1 weekly xD) and let them complain.

[Osmeric]

Blizzard caters to everyone, but lesser skilled players cant understand it,

LOL. Not catering to means not providing enough to keep that person playing. And since every person gets to define just what it would be that would keep them playing, what you say there cannot ever be correct. If someone quits they are by definition not being catered to.

What's twisting your knickers is that you think the casuals should be satisfied with what they're being served, and you're blaming them when they're not. Buck up and deal.

[Aydinx2]

Something I was wondering recently. Assuming theres no new big features to be announced.... what is there for casual players in Dragonflight? It, as of now, just looks like another WoD-esque: We only care about what hardcore players do. But at least WoD had the Garrison which, while kinda shit, was at least something that all players could take part in.

99% of the game is easily done as a casual. Stop complaining about the 1% that isn't.

[Delever]

LOL. Not catering to means not providing enough to keep that person playing. And since every person gets to define just what it would be that would keep them playing, what you say there cannot ever be correct. If someone quits they are by definition not being catered to.

What's twisting your knickers is that you think the casuals should be satisfied with what they're being served, and you're blaming them when they're not. Buck up and deal.

I really do not think that is what is twisting his knickers and you are getting into extreme semantics here.

Precicely as you said, everybody has a different definition of what would keep them playing so that is entirely subjective. What is objective though is that there is a wide variety of activities that are in place to please a GENERAL crowd of varying skill levels and time commitments. However, most of that is still designed around the average active user and not the lowest or highest outliers.

If someone is not satisfied by that and cannot possibly fathom that they belong to a niche group that want something incredibly specific for them then I dont know what else to say.

[potis]

LOL. Not catering to means not providing enough to keep that person playing. And since every person gets to define just what it would be that would keep them playing, what you say there cannot ever be correct. If someone quits they are by definition not being catered to.

What's twisting your knickers is that you think the casuals should be satisfied with what they're being served, and you're blaming them when they're not. Buck up and deal.

Simple answer, you are wrong.

And i know your type so i wont even push it past that, you are wrong, no, nada, niet, nein.
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I really do not think that is what is twisting his knickers and you are getting into extreme semantics here.

Precicely as you said, everybody has a different definition of what would keep them playing so that is entirely subjective. What is objective though is that there is a wide variety of activities that are in place to please a GENERAL crowd of varying skill levels and time commitments. However, most of that is still designed around the average active user and not the lowest or highest outliers.

If someone is not satisfied by that and cannot possibly fathom that they belong to a niche group that want something incredibly specific for them then I dont know what else to say.

It was proven posters like him are full of lies and it was officially shown at the start of BFA, the story is well known, someone like the guy you quoted, complained there was nothing to do, and the Top Community Manager put him in his place all hell broke loose.

The guy complaining, had done 2 normal dungeons while leveling, finished 1 story line area, hasnt started the campaign of BFA at all, 0 anything else, no pets, no BGS, 1 island, 0 warfronts.

And he was complaining he has no content, 4 months in right when Battle for Dazalor dropped.

They are beyond wasting time to talk to them cause they are full of lies, or simply so disconnected by the actual gameplay that you cant have a discussion, they just "Wahhhhh, content".

[Lucetia]

Atleast for m+ groups usually form in a few minutes though. Haven't tried pug raiding though.

If you are a healer / tank / making a group with your key, then yes it's quick. If you try to find a group as a DPS you will usually be waiting awhile. Is it 30+ minutes? No, but it can take anywhere from 5-20 minutes alone before some stop searching.

It was proven posters like him are full of lies and it was officially shown at the start of BFA, the story is well known, someone like the guy you quoted, complained there was nothing to do, and the Top Community Manager put him in his place all hell broke loose.

The guy complaining, had done 2 normal dungeons while leveling, finished 1 story line area, hasnt started the campaign of BFA at all, 0 anything else, no pets, no BGS, 1 island, 0 warfronts.

And he was complaining he has no content, 4 months in right when Battle for Dazalor dropped.

They are beyond wasting time to talk to them.

I mean that isn't always the case. I feel like there isn't a lot of relevant stuff to do just because I don't have the time / patience (reasons I don't want to get into) to deal with pug raids. I do dungeons, finish storylines, go collecting, etc. Just because I do a lot of everything and such doesn't mean that I feel like it is relevant content to current patch/expansion. Are you saying because I feel the same way as the person who was ousted mean that my opinion doesn't matter?