Disintegrate

[Teriz]

Original Disintegrate was never spellfrost.

Uh, the Blue Dragonflight have always used spellfrost or arcane, even in their breath attacks.

If you’re talking about the Diablo ability, this ain’t the Diablo forum.

[Ielenia]

You are aware that WoW Mages use Lightning as well, right?
The WC2 Mage and Medivh, for example.

Medivh has fire, frost and arcane spells. I did not see any lightning in his ability list.

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Summoning a magical dragon head =/= transforming into a dragon and breathing spellfrost from mouth ala Kalecgos.

Your claim was that mages cannot use "dragon abilities" because they can't "turn into dragons", which was debunked because not being able to turn into dragons does not stop mages from being able to use the most signature ability of a dragon, which is the Dragon's Breath.

To be accurate it’s Spellfrost, the signature magic school of the Blue Dragonflight.

Not only I haven't found a single blue dragon that has any "spellfrost" magic, but the only instances of "spellfrost" that I found were from mortals and frost elementals that aren't even indirectly connected to dragons. So much for your claims of "signature magic school".

[Vaedan]

Original Disintegrate was never spellfrost.

Original Disintegrate is not a spell from Warcraft, so it's pointless to use that example.

I wanted WoW mages get Disintegrate in its Diablo glory for years, but I'm not mad Evokers get that. Warcraft mages have no claim on the spell. My problem is that the spell still looks rather underwhelming compared to what we have in Diablo. It should be more like Azerite Beam or DH Eye Beam, dealing damage to all targets in front of you, instead of just targeting one target.

I hope we at least get reworked Ray of Frost, idealy with animation Jaina use.

[Teriz]

Your claim was that mages cannot use "dragon abilities" because they can't "turn into dragons", which was debunked because not being able to turn into dragons does not stop mages from being able to use the most signature ability of a dragon, which is the Dragon's Breath.

Mages CANNOT turn into a dragon and breathe magic from their mouths. The ability you link to does not do that.

One more time; This is the ability in question;



And it is based on the dragon's ability to do this;



If you can't understand that, that's your problem.

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Not only I haven't found a single blue dragon that has any "spellfrost" magic, but the only instances of "spellfrost" that I found were from mortals and frost elementals that aren't even indirectly connected to dragons. So much for your claims of "signature magic school".

Their breath is Frost/Arcane which Blizzard combined into Spellfrost.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_dragonflight

[Ielenia]

Mages CANNOT turn into a dragon and breathe magic from their mouths. The ability you link to does not do that.

The ability I linked shows that mages do not need to turn into a dragon to "breathe magic from mouths".

One more time; This is the ability in question;

https://media.giphy.com/media/36EczZ...GbVl/giphy.gif

And it is based on the dragon's ability to do this;

http://cdn.gamer-network.net/2019/metabomb/malygos.jpg

If you can't understand that, that's your problem.

One: "based on this ability" is your opinion.

Two: just because the evoker is shooting that thing from its mouth, doesn't mean mages can't do the same, considering mages can use 'dragon breath'.

Their breath is Frost/Arcane which Blizzard combined into Spellfrost.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_dragonflight

Thanks for showing me the link that disproves your claim:

"The blue dragonflight are dragonkin that have blue-white scales and can breath frost or arcane magic."

In other words, they don't have "spellfrost". They have arcane or frost breaths. Not one that combines both together, so your claims of "spellfrost is their signature magic" is bunk.

[Teriz]

The ability I linked shows that mages do not need to turn into a dragon to "breathe magic from mouths".

But that's what we're talking about; An ability where the user breaths arcane/frost magic from its mouth. You're talking about a completely different ability.

Two: just because the evoker is shooting that thing from its mouth, doesn't mean mages can't do the same, considering mages can use 'dragon breath'.

They can't, which is why they summon a magical dragon head instead.

Again, not my problem if you can't tell the difference.

Thanks for showing me the link that disproves your claim:

"The blue dragonflight are dragonkin that have blue-white scales and can breath frost or arcane magic."

In other words, they don't have "spellfrost". They have arcane or frost breaths. Not one that combines both together, so your claims of "spellfrost is their signature magic" is bunk.

And yet Blizzard combined them together as Spellfrost within the Evoker class under blue dragonflight magic.

I wonder why......

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Considering that I'm talking to the same individual who didn't believe that Evokers could use magic from the Black dragonflight (when it was clear that they could), I'll just stop this discussion now.

[username993720]

Diablo has as much to do with Warcraft as Starcraft does. So no, any argument you have that Disintegrate is a Mage spell makes as much sense as that the Marine should be a WoW class.

The Diablo universe has a lot to do with WoW, from its classes, to its demons and Undead.
Starcraft also has some influence, with the Xel'naga and the Protoss.

Medivh has fire, frost and arcane spells. I did not see any lightning in his ability list.

There you go:

Original Disintegrate is not a spell from Warcraft, so it's pointless to use that example.

I wanted WoW mages get Disintegrate in its Diablo glory for years, but I'm not mad Evokers get that. Warcraft mages have no claim on the spell. My problem is that the spell still looks rather underwhelming compared to what we have in Diablo. It should be more like Azerite Beam or DH Eye Beam, dealing damage to all targets in front of you, instead of just targeting one target.

I hope we at least get reworked Ray of Frost, idealy with animation Jaina use.

They can still add it to the Mage, just under another name.

[Segus1992]

The Diablo universe has a lot to do with WoW, from its classes, to its demons and Undead.

That's just designers taking inspiration from another IP, does not make Wizard and Mage the same class.

[Ielenia]

But that's what we're talking about; An ability where the user breaths arcane/frost magic from its mouth. You're talking about a completely different ability.

We're talking about the Disintegrate spell, the way it is cast by the evoker class is meaningless. It's an arbitrary roadblock you're trying to impose that has been debunked by the game itself since the launch of the Burning Crusade expansion when mages acquired the "Dragon's Breath" spell.

They can't, which is why they summon a magical dragon head instead.

Again, not my problem if you can't tell the difference.

There is no difference. Because, again, the way the ability is cast is meaningless. Mages can already use the signature ability of dragons, which is the dragon's breath attack, an attack that is done through the dragon's mouth. And if they can do that, using any other dragon spell-- which includes "Disintegrate"-- is not a problem.

And yet Blizzard combined them together as Spellfrost within the Evoker class under blue dragonflight magic.

I wonder why......

Except you were claiming the blue dragonflight uses "spellfrost" and it's the flight's "signature magic" yet you not only don't have a single example of a dragon using "spellfrost", but your very own link says that blue dragons breathe "frost or arcane", not both together.

Probably because the dracthyr aren't dragons, and is a mixture.

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The Diablo universe has a lot to do with WoW, from its classes, to its demons and Undead.

Nope. 100% nope.

There you go:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ECDKjStq8Eg/maxresdefault.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7de8023e...32fxo1_400.jpg

I'm questioning a screenshot from the movie and an artwork. But even then, Medivh is not exactly a barometer for the mage class, considering he was one of the Guardians of Tirisfal, and was bestowed powers likely beyond his normal ken.

[Gaidax]

God this thread is so cringe. People got baited hard by infamous OP with well known shit takes.

Get it, bois, no matter what you say - the OP will stick to his guns, so just let this thing die and have him create another equally cringe take thread.

[Teriz]

God this thread is so cringe. People got baited hard by infamous OP with well known shit takes.

Get it, bois, no matter what you say - the OP will stick to his guns, so just let this thing die and have him create another equally cringe take thread.

Pretty much. He’s upset that a certain group of undead elves didn’t get a new class, so he’s lashing out at the Evoker class.

[8bithamster]

Pretty much. He’s upset that a certain group of undead elves didn’t get a new class, so he’s lashing out at the Evoker class.

So it's like talking to you about hots and/or tinker? Got it

[jackofwind]

You know what a Wizard is? A Mage.

In what universe? Diablo? Warcraft? Forgotten Realms? RIFT? Palladium?

Terms and definitions aren't just equivalent across the board. You're comparing completely different IPs and universes.

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God this thread is so cringe. People got baited hard by infamous OP with well known shit takes.

Get it, bois, no matter what you say - the OP will stick to his guns, so just let this thing die and have him create another equally cringe take thread.

Speaking of guns - why can't mages use guns in Warcraft?? They can in Shadowrun, so Warcraft should be the same!

[Chromell]

I do find Spellfrost such a silly damage type though.

Are frost spells not spellfrost? Its not like im taking water, freezing it, then firing it. Im confuring ice, out of magic, and tossing it at someone.

Spellfrost is Arcane + Frost damage. The same way Frostfire Bolt used to deal Frost + Fire damage.

[Teriz]

So it's like talking to you about hots and/or tinker? Got it

Feel free to look up the last thread I made about that class on this forum, or thread where I brought them up at all.

Thanks.

[Magistrate]

I think this is less about a weak rhetorical argument and more about a legitimate opinion to have mage have this ability.

I hate ray of frost, never use it. Like that its there. If wow mages got disintegrate or something adjacent idk if I'd use it but I wouldn't be opposed.

I would wonder if it would be arcane or fire based, though, as this varies by canon.

Still wishing one day for a gunslinger/spellcaster spec or mage tank spec a la suramar

[Teriz]

I think this is less about a weak rhetorical argument and more about a legitimate opinion to have mage have this ability.

I hate ray of frost, never use it. Like that its there. If wow mages got disintegrate or something adjacent idk if I'd use it but I wouldn't be opposed.

I would wonder if it would be arcane or fire based, though, as this varies by canon.

Still wishing one day for a gunslinger/spellcaster spec or mage tank spec a la suramar

I don't get why people think Mages should have this ability. Blue dragons have been shooting arcane/frost breath for years now, and it's pretty obvious that a mage isn't going to be shooting magic from their mouths. Hell, I never heard anyone on any forum pining for Malygos' breath attack for the mage class. We have a dragon class that has the abilities of the Blue dragonflight, so clearly they were going to get this ability.

[username993720]

That's just designers taking inspiration from another IP, does not make Wizard and Mage the same class.

That's the whole point of this thread.

Nope. 100% nope.

Nope? Legion didn't take inspiration from Diablo?
Class abilities do not overlap between the two franchises?

I'm questioning a screenshot from the movie and an artwork. But even then, Medivh is not exactly a barometer for the mage class, considering he was one of the Guardians of Tirisfal, and was bestowed powers likely beyond his normal ken.

Doesn't matter if he's an elite Mage, he's a Mage nonetheless.
Not to mention the WC2 Mage that you completely ignored.

Pretty much. He’s upset that a certain group of undead elves didn’t get a new class, so he’s lashing out at the Evoker class.

No. That's why:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...st-should-have

In what universe? Diablo? Warcraft? Forgotten Realms? RIFT? Palladium?

Terms and definitions aren't just equivalent across the board. You're comparing completely different IPs and universes.

"Wizards are a alternate name for a mage or a type of mage."
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Wizard

I don't get why people think Mages should have this ability. Blue dragons have been shooting arcane/frost breath for years now, and it's pretty obvious that a mage isn't going to be shooting magic from their mouths. Hell, I never heard anyone on any forum pining for Malygos' breath attack for the mage class. We have a dragon class that has the abilities of the Blue dragonflight, so clearly they were going to get this ability.

You didn't get the point of this thread, did you?
No one is asking for Mages to shoot Spellfrost out of their mouths. I'm asking for the original Diablo Disintegrate, which the Evoker took the name of.

[Teriz]

You didn't get the point of this thread, did you?
No one is asking for Mages to shoot Spellfrost out of their mouths. I'm asking for the original Diablo Disintegrate, which the Evoker took the name of.

There is no point of this thread. Diablo 3 came out over 10 years ago (during WoW Cataclysm) and Mages never got the spell.

Because they were NEVER going to get the spell.

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LOL I forgot all about that. Ouch

He also said that there were no red/fire-based healing spells in the class before the abilities got revealed. In reality we got multiple healing spells from the red dragonflight. You really have to ask yourself why someone would believe a class partially based on Alexstraza wouldn't have red/fire-based healing spells when in nearly every iteration of Alexstraza in WoW and related media, she has fire-based healing spells.

Has he admitted to any of these errors? Nope.

[jackofwind]

"Wizards are a alternate name for a mage or a type of mage."
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Wizard

Yeah but the Diablo "Wizard" doesn't exist in Warcraft. That's my point. Warcraft has Mages which are sometimes called Wizards. Diablo has Wizards. They're two different universes which means they aren't necessarily the same thing.