The story of current Wow has been a complete travesty

[Legends303]

Of all the things Blizzard has done the most terrible in wow in recent years I think is the story. They somehow shoe horned this jailer character in the story that he was behind all the major events in Warcraft from Sergeras to Arthas. A really boring and uninteresting character is behind the major events of wow. It really goes to show that they don’t care about their Lore or any consistency. I think Steve Daunser needs to be replaced and woke crap was taken over wow is making wow continue to lose players. Now wonder FFXIV is gaining popularity because Yoshi and the Devs care about their lore and giving players a sense they are being looked after. I think Blizzard will continue to make these mistakes in wow until a sea change in its leadership in the story department.

[Weezull]

Yeah welcome to bout a few months ago.

[Myradin]

Warcraft has often been a cluster of random rule of cool ideas. They never set out to tell a particular story.

The jailor was definitely a pretty spectacular misstep though.

[BreakerOfWills]

And through all of that the players are more boring than the game.

That's how far it's come.

Every expac met with a litany of complaints, devs adjust to what players want and the game just gets worse. The internet is a hilarious self devouring machine of dissatisfaction

[AppleWhiskey]

You read the old school WC2 manual (starting at page 29), even the fucking individual units had lore.
And you could feel this was writteb by people who only cared about creating something cool:

http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/War...%20edition.PDF

Then you got the fucking WC3 manual whose lore is still being used up to this day:

http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/War...I%20Manual.pdf

The only thing not mentioned in there are the shadowlands, because guess what, none of this shit was planned back then:

http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/War...I%20Manual.pdf

Then you got the original WoW manual that had a ton of lore too:

https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...5957773363.pdf

Compare that to modern Sylvanoos vs Tyrande ninja acrobatics, "BUT THERE'S A GREATER EVIL" endless trope and "Omg how come we don't have a gay alliance leader yet anduid + wrathion uwuwuwuwuwuwuwuuw".

WC2 intro:


WC3 intro:


Fucking weep-inducing the travesty that has become.

I will NEVER forget how metzen stepped on stage at blizzcon and had to call out "Guys this is not a joke" after they announced crapdaria, cause no one could believe how much they'd sold the franchise out just to appeal to chinese players.

- - - Updated - - -

And through all of that the players are more boring than the game.

That's how far it's come.

Every expac met with a litany of complaints, devs adjust to what players want and the game just gets worse. The internet is a hilarious self devouring machine of dissatisfaction

yeah, curious how with everything leading up to the original WoW and even WOTLK (BC announcement was a disaster), players were happy though.

Funny that, huh?

[McNeil]

What you expect when you have Afrasiabi sabotaging the games lore and Danuser trying to ''salvage'' it with his own self-inserts in a fanfiction expansion. He went as far as to actually change and wipe out established lore and turn its most well written and beloved character (Arthas) into a fart made out of anima. Thats basically poetry of how the old lore has died. We got the Jailer who is just..... lol

Just pretend WoW lore ended with Arthas like how GoT (show) lore ended with Tywin

[AppleWhiskey]

what you expect when you have afrasiabi sabotaging the games lore and danuser trying to ''salvage'' it with his own self-inserts in a fanfiction expansion. He went as far as to actually change and wipe out established lore and turn its most well written and beloved character (arthas) into a fart made out of anima. Thats basically poetry of how the old lore has died. We got the jailer who is just..... Lol

just pretend wow lore ended with arthas like how got (show) lore ended with tywin

the jailer was planned since warcraft 3 did you not see the hints?

The hints were everywhere.

This is all part of the grand plan you just don't get it because you're a bigot, a racist and a sexist and probably not even vaxxed omgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg i don't eveneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeennnnnn

[Niwes]

Of all the things Blizzard has done the most terrible in wow in recent years I think is the story. They somehow shoe horned this jailer character in the story that he was behind all the major events in Warcraft from Sergeras to Arthas. A really boring and uninteresting character is behind the major events of wow. It really goes to show that they don’t care about their Lore or any consistency. I think Steve Daunser needs to be replaced and woke crap was taken over wow is making wow continue to lose players. Now wonder FFXIV is gaining popularity because Yoshi and the Devs care about their lore and giving players a sense they are being looked after. I think Blizzard will continue to make these mistakes in wow until a sea change in its leadership in the story department.

seriously, you are RATHER late to that party. all of this is talked, revised, discussed and reallly done, to even the least bit, months ago, while SL reached his BS story zenith.

yes, Blizzard (mostly targeted to Danuser and his team) produced the lowest possible piece of cheap crap, story wise. yes, it’s horrible. and as you can see by the player numbers, most ppl already handled, arranged and finished that for themselfes, by stop playing and paying. while some others ignore it and focus to other things in wow. also a small minority likes the story.

nonetheless, it’s all said. there is nothing left besides to set your own descissions. if you need input, read all the old threads. no need to re-discuss all the million things that are discussed to death, months ago, imo.

and if i were the mods of mmoc, i would link to some big old thread and just close this thread, tbh.

[Implosivo]

You read the old school WC2 manual (starting at page 29), even the fucking individual units had lore.
And you could feel this was writteb by people who only cared about creating something cool:

http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/War...%20edition.PDF

Then you got the fucking WC3 manual whose lore is still being used up to this day:

http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/War...I%20Manual.pdf

The only thing not mentioned in there are the shadowlands, because guess what, none of this shit was planned back then:

http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/War...I%20Manual.pdf

Then you got the original WoW manual that had a ton of lore too:

https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...5957773363.pdf

Compare that to modern Sylvanoos vs Tyrande ninja acrobatics, "BUT THERE'S A GREATER EVIL" endless trope and "Omg how come we don't have a gay alliance leader yet anduid + wrathion uwuwuwuwuwuwuwuuw".

WC2 intro:


WC3 intro:


Fucking weep-inducing the travesty that has become.

I will NEVER forget how metzen stepped on stage at blizzcon and had to call out "Guys this is not a joke" after they announced crapdaria, cause no one could believe how much they'd sold the franchise out just to appeal to chinese players.

- - - Updated - - -



yeah, curious how with everything leading up to the original WoW and even WOTLK (BC announcement was a disaster), players were happy though.

Funny that, huh?

go touch grass.

[Accendor]

You read the old school WC2 manual (starting at page 29), even the fucking individual units had lore.
And you could feel this was writteb by people who only cared about creating something cool:

http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/War...%20edition.PDF

Then you got the fucking WC3 manual whose lore is still being used up to this day:

http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/War...I%20Manual.pdf

The only thing not mentioned in there are the shadowlands, because guess what, none of this shit was planned back then:

http://ftp.blizzard.com/pub/misc/War...I%20Manual.pdf

Then you got the original WoW manual that had a ton of lore too:

https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...5957773363.pdf

Compare that to modern Sylvanoos vs Tyrande ninja acrobatics, "BUT THERE'S A GREATER EVIL" endless trope and "Omg how come we don't have a gay alliance leader yet anduid + wrathion uwuwuwuwuwuwuwuuw".

WC2 intro:


WC3 intro:


Fucking weep-inducing the travesty that has become.

I will NEVER forget how metzen stepped on stage at blizzcon and had to call out "Guys this is not a joke" after they announced crapdaria, cause no one could believe how much they'd sold the franchise out just to appeal to chinese players.

- - - Updated - - -



yeah, curious how with everything leading up to the original WoW and even WOTLK (BC announcement was a disaster), players were happy though.

Funny that, huh?

I agree with almost anything you say, but honestly, MoP Lore was good. I get it, some people don't like Pandaren and didn't enjoy the eastern asthetics. Fair enough, but if you can ignore the fact they are literal Pandas, the whole MoP Lore was a fucking masterpiece, especially when compared to BfA or SL.

[Cynicalnerd]

Why are we acting like Warcraft ever had a good story. Putting lore in a manual for an old game doesn’t make it good. Warcraft 1-3 all had predictable storylines. Do you think the Arthas story was good? Please. It’s been done before and it’s not even that good. Playing Warcraft for the story is like watching porn for the plot. Just don’t.

[Eosia]

The jailor was definitely a pretty spectacular misstep though.

Not so much a misstep, but a missed opportunity. They could have done so much more with him, especially since we find out he's the one who actually created the Lich King and the Dreadlords' true masters are Denathrius and him versus Sargeras. One of the things I liked about Wrath was the constant presence of Arthas. He would pop up in almost every zone at some point, not just Icecrown Glacier when we were level 70 like Illidan back in Burning Crusade where his appearances were limited to Shadowmoon Valley. Even if it was just some RP like the Svala being turned into a Val'kyr in Utgarde Pinnacle or the end of the Voltarus questline involving Drakuru in Zul'drek. He always had his presence felt by us.

On top of that, they never really go into depth about why he's so evil. Even people for whom WoW was their first Warcraft game, there was enough in-game material that gave us a sense of who Illidan, Arthas, Deathwing, and Garrosh were and why they had to be stopped. There was never any real back story as to why Zovaal betrayed the other four Eternal Ones, never any mention of him being the first Arbiter before his "betrayal", never any real explanation about what he wanted other than to "fix" a "broken" system of life and death and even then we never really get told what was so "broken" about it beyond the curated things Sylvanas was shown in order to deceive her into joining him. And then his "a divide cosmos cannot survive what's coming..." at the end was a cheap cop-out and came across as clearly tacked on.

The Jailer on the other hand only had that initial presence as we escaped from the Maw the first time and that was pretty much it. The only real place we felt him again until Sepulcher was the Maw before 9.1 and we neutralize the Eye of the Jailer mechanic. And even then it was not really his presence, but some mechanic to make working in the Maw more and more difficult over time until you hit your daily cap and it became impossible. So went spent the entire expansion hearing how bad the Jailer was without knowing why, having to stop a plan we knew nothing about beyond some surface PR thing, only to have it end with "I was only just trying to save you guys..." They could have at least had another, or a different, cutscene where Sylvanas gives us the details of the Jailer's plan. That would have at least been somewhat of a correction to the narrative blunders they made this expansion.

It felt like Sylvanas and Kel'Thuzad had more presence in expansion than the ultimate boss and we take care of them in the second raid. And Denathrius made such an impression on us that rather than kill him in Castlevania, we instead imprison his soul and he later gets rescued by the Neth'razim for use in a later expansion.

The funny thing is Blizzard has tacitly admitted this too. Notice how new players have to do Battle for Azeroth so they understand events that lead to Shadowlands. That hasn't changed in Dragonflight. They still have to do BfA, not Shadowlands.

Some narrative things, like some of the retcons that came about, can be excused though. A lot of that is just an inevitability with WoW being almost two decades old. I seriously doubt that when they launched the game that it would go for this long and they painted themselves into a corner so they had no choice but to retcon it in some fashion.

[BreakerOfWills]

You though the story was good when you were younger and it wasnt, and now you feel bad. It's got a fun hook but it's a B movie style.

And I do remember BC and Wrath, people complained bitterly about killing illidan, about killing Kael, they were pissed that Arthas popped up all the time in WotLK because they thought it made him less menacing(and then lots of those same people got mad at enemies not appearing more often because they felt like they weren't built up enough) Players have been yelling that this game is dead long before it reached it's pinnacle in Wrath, and they're gonna keep beating that dead horse instead of walking away because what else are they gonna do? Enjoy something else? Madness!

[Luxeley]

You can care about the lore and still be a terrible writer with even worse ideas. No one cares if the lore is retconned a little bit if the story is interesting and compelling. Problem is - the latter just isn't true. Wow's lore issues suffer from 3 distinct things: 1) Wow moved away from and/or ran out of "meaty" source material years ago. Its the same problem GOT Xp'd during the last 2 seasons, arguably even the last 3 seasons. 2) Current WOW lore is far more interested in virtue signaling than anything else which also translates to a complete and total aversion to taking risks, even a calculated ones. 3) the WOW lore team, from top on down, are simply incompetent when it comes to developing interesting and compelling villains. Truth be told - WOW lore has not had a good villain since WOTLK. For those keeping score at home, that translates into more than 10 years.

[BreakerOfWills]

I agree with almost anything you say, but honestly, MoP Lore was good. I get it, some people don't like Pandaren and didn't enjoy the eastern asthetics. Fair enough, but if you can ignore the fact they are literal Pandas, the whole MoP Lore was a fucking masterpiece, especially when compared to BfA or SL.

This is the part that always has me laughing about the "wow is bad and the story is bad" cuz they tried to make a new thing, with a more coherent more adult story and better written themes and players abandoned it en masse, because they decided that characters that samwise didier had been drawing his entire life were all about appeasing Chinese players and they couldn't stand everything not pandering to them directly - then they made warlords of nostalgia and it was the worst expansion by a mile. They abandoned the game en masse and it's been a slow slide ever since.

[DatToffer]

Fucking weep-inducing the travesty that has become.

I will NEVER forget how metzen stepped on stage at blizzcon and had to call out "Guys this is not a joke" after they announced crapdaria, cause no one could believe how much they'd sold the franchise out just to appeal to chinese players.

Funny how you hold the old lore in so high regard but stay blind to MoP because you seemingly never went over the "lol kung fu panda" meme.

MoP is one example of how worldbuilding can be done right and new lore can fit right in when you do the proper research (both on the established lore and on the reference material). Aside from a few problems like fucking Varian and the over the top evilness of Garrosh in the end, it also properly involved our factions, focusing on the new continent but still showing some evolution in the rest of the world.

[DeltaLimaCharlie]

Compare that to modern Sylvanoos vs Tyrande ninja acrobatics, "BUT THERE'S A GREATER EVIL" endless trope and "Omg how come we don't have a gay alliance leader yet anduid + wrathion uwuwuwuwuwuwuwuuw".

Fucking weep-inducing the travesty that has become.

I will NEVER forget how metzen stepped on stage at blizzcon and had to call out "Guys this is not a joke" after they announced crapdaria, cause no one could believe how much they'd sold the franchise out just to appeal to chinese players.

- - - Updated - - -



yeah, curious how with everything leading up to the original WoW and even WOTLK (BC announcement was a disaster), players were happy though.

Funny that, huh?

I bet you had your MAGA hat on while writing this up. Hating the direction the lore is going is fine (It's been pretty crap for awhile now) but getting that upset about them writing in gay characters is laughable. "Cause no one could believe how much they'd sold the franchise out just to appeal to chinese players"...lmao...I'll eat my shorts if this dude isn't a Trump supporter.

[Cynicalnerd]

It’s kind of dumb they make new players do bfa. As fast as leveling is they won’t get to the story bits that make sense for shadowlands. Imagine making new players play your worst expansion and then go into the second worst expansion

[Florena]

The Warcraft franchise has been retcon heavy since warcraft 2. Retcons are nothing new, even back in the old days WoW wasn't afraid of retcons. That's not to excuse bad writing in newer expansions. The Jailer was a dud and they honestly should have just made him more of his own thing and not tried to tie him back to old lore as much imo. But retcons are not new, and bad writing is not new. WoW has throughout its history been pretty uneven in story quality imo. Such as BC making a lot of people mad by making Kael'thas and Illidan crazy bad guys.

For MOP, I can't blame anyone for having an initial bad reaction to MOP. Its reveal trailer was awful. But MOP imo was all around one of the better written expansions, especially when dealing with Pandaria itself and not the horde/alliance war. And it actually built off of pre existing lore pretty well, with the august celestials being akin to the Ancients, the Mantid having ties to the old gods similar to nerubians, the Mogu being titan constructs etc, the story of anew old god in Y'shaarj, and the Sha being an extension of that. Pandaria's isolation itself being done because of the war of the ancients. It was actually pretty deeply rooted in existing lore.

[Magistrate]

I still maintain that Suramar and it's related quests about the Legion, insurrection, and the rejuvenation of the Nightborne, as well as Elisande, and the attached audio dramas with Gul'dan and the comics was altogether some of the strongest storytelling out of the franchise.

Also, I know there are some valid quips about the Garrosh storyline in MoP but that was overall incredible. And when the music lined up right in that final raid fight with him? Pure epic.