Master looter back!!!!!

[Lolites]

I remember being in a couple of guilds when master loot was the norm. After a couple of instances of unfair loot distribution due to frienships, girlfriends and people bitching I became very happy when all that stuff went away. But now its back! Yay...

funny enough, its not...
group loot is coming back, not ML, OP just cant comprehend what he read and after 10 pages and who knows how many explanations most people still dont bother to check it and just take OPs claim without any proof as reality...
6th post has link that LITERALY claims its not ML coming back yet people still argue as it is...

[Relapses]

funny enough, its not...
group loot is coming back, not ML, OP just cant comprehend what he read and after 10 pages and who knows how many explanations most people still dont bother to check it and just take OPs claim without any proof as reality...
6th post has link that LITERALY claims its not ML coming back yet people still argue as it is...

For organized groups it's ML with an extra step. Loot councils will be able to be enforced again which is essentially what PL stopped (kinda).

[Rustedsaint]

Master looter is trash, seen so many raid leaders gear up their friends alt, ninja mounts.
I won’t be playing with anyone who sets it on

[Lolites]

For organized groups it's ML with an extra step. Loot councils will be able to be enforced again which is essentially what PL stopped (kinda).

in organised groups perhaps you could get CLOSE to it, in pugs its completely different... be as it may, ML is not coming back

[Bigbazz]

My bet is they didn't go full Masterloot because of the huge increase in popularity of GDKP from Classic, ML makes it much easier to run a GDKP.

[MidnyteTV]

The player base at large didn't use master loot responsible, hence the removal. It'll be the same with group loot. I'm happy for you to have found a guild that uses ML to the benefit of everyone in it (although you might want to check this thought with ex-members if everyone actually felt the same, you might be surprised).

Any evidence to support this? Secondly, it was removed because of coding issues as Ion stated. They used other stuff to justify their decision and as Preach said form his meeting, they're looking to roll back previous mistakes. The option is still there for PL. Those that want it, can use it. That's all this change is about, options. PL is great for groups that don't care if a new player gets geared out and quits, but for those looking for universal progression and a teamwork-oriented environment, this change is amazing.

If you are selfish, self-centered, and could care less about progression, join a guild that uses PL.

[Kralljin]

My bet is they didn't go full Masterloot because of the huge increase in popularity of GDKP from Classic, ML makes it much easier to run a GDKP.

I think the concept of a GDKP just struggles in the Retail enviroment.
Biggest hurdle is the plain fact that you can't trade Gold CRZ and pretty much everything is CRZ is Retail nowadays.

Then you also struggle to carry people in Mythic, at least if you're not a highend raiding guild, Classic / TBC is easy enough to get away with carrying some people, have a few bad people and still succeed.

[Twdft]

Any evidence to support this? Secondly, it was removed because of coding issues as Ion stated.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/254739285?t=1h5m03s

Ion talked about how with masterloot players are at the mercy of another person and how trials could go weeks without any chance of loot. And if you frequented any wow forum you must have read numerous stories how ML was misused by a lot of people, be it unfair loot councils, GM handing out shinies to their friends or ML in pugs just runs with items they want. If you played WotLK remember how the drop of Deathbringers Will meant the raid was over for most pugs since it would routinely get ninja'd or even if it wasn't outright ninja'd bad blood cooked up over who got it.

I haven't heard any "coding issues" that would be the reason for removing ML.

[Stormwolf64]

Nope, not the only reason. Progressing on bosses with proper loot system that allows you to increase the value of certain raiders who have direct impact during certain part of the encounter = huge +. And if lifting personal loot ilvl trade restrictions is a no - this GL addition will do nicely. After all no one is forcing you to use ML or GL if you don't want to.

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^^ This sums it up

Yes, let's add more anti social stuff that makes it difficult to raid or find a group. I swear someone needs to drain the sewage building up within the skulls of blizz employees. ML doesn't need to be brought back at all

[Dalinos]

I have 1 question and 1 question only for all the people opposing the return of Master Looter (with the extra steps since we're getting Group Loot back).

Have you ever been happy for someone ELSE's acquisition of an upgrade other than yourself?

If the answer to that is "NO", then ML is not for you.
If the answer to that is "YES", then ML is for you.

Simple as that.

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Yes, let's add more anti social stuff that makes it difficult to raid or find a group. I swear someone needs to drain the sewage building up within the skulls of blizz employees. ML doesn't need to be brought back at all

How is Master Looter antisocial? It's the definition of social. It prompts discussion, rules setting and camaraderie.

[Stormwolf64]

I have 1 question and 1 question only for all the people opposing the return of Master Looter (with the extra steps since we're getting Group Loot back).

Have you ever been happy for someone ELSE's acquisition of an upgrade other than yourself?

If the answer to that is "NO", then ML is not for you.
If the answer to that is "YES", then ML is for you.

Simple as that.

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How is Master Looter antisocial? It's the definition of social. It prompts discussion, rules setting and camaraderie.

I just had a laugh. Thanks!

[Revamp Man]

I have 1 question and 1 question only for all the people opposing the return of Master Looter (with the extra steps since we're getting Group Loot back).

Have you ever been happy for someone ELSE's acquisition of an upgrade other than yourself?

If the answer to that is "NO", then ML is not for you.
If the answer to that is "YES", then ML is for you.

Simple as that.

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How is Master Looter antisocial? It's the definition of social. It prompts discussion, rules setting and camaraderie.

He meant anti-social because of the people that want to be anti-social and need to make an excuse

Honestly depending on the boss and if personal loot restrictions are also removed then some guilds might still use personal loot in certain situations

Your healers need the trinket off of kael?? Personal loot with dps and tanks swapping to heal loot spec is more reliable

Tier boss and your trying to get everyone a 2 set? Definitely personal loot

[MidnyteTV]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/254739285?t=1h5m03s

Ion talked about how with masterloot players are at the mercy of another person and how trials could go weeks without any chance of loot. And if you frequented any wow forum you must have read numerous stories how ML was misused by a lot of people, be it unfair loot councils, GM handing out shinies to their friends or ML in pugs just runs with items they want. If you played WotLK remember how the drop of Deathbringers Will meant the raid was over for most pugs since it would routinely get ninja'd or even if it wasn't outright ninja'd bad blood cooked up over who got it.

I haven't heard any "coding issues" that would be the reason for removing ML.

https://youtu.be/sMmsFb9mf6M?t=739

Ion talks about maintaining two data sets, ui experiences, etc, and they wanted to get out of that. Not once does he mention trials or anything here.

I've read tons of stories of ML being allegedly mishandled. Yet I never hear stories about how people are given the loot they deserve. Why? Because whenever a piece of gear drops that is an upgrade for us, our natural instinct is to get our hands on it.

Nice try.

[Revamp Man]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/254739285?t=1h5m03s

Ion talked about how with masterloot players are at the mercy of another person and how trials could go weeks without any chance of loot. And if you frequented any wow forum you must have read numerous stories how ML was misused by a lot of people, be it unfair loot councils, GM handing out shinies to their friends or ML in pugs just runs with items they want. If you played WotLK remember how the drop of Deathbringers Will meant the raid was over for most pugs since it would routinely get ninja'd or even if it wasn't outright ninja'd bad blood cooked up over who got it.

I haven't heard any "coding issues" that would be the reason for removing ML.

i also remember multiple threads of those horrible ninja looter stories getting called out as liars

the only way trials could go weeks without loot is a bad guild who never did farm because during my two week trial i got loot because farm and one trial near the end of WoD got essentially fully geared in a week because we were all geared

the main people who whine are when they come into a boss that the group has been working on and then they see a piece of loot drop and think they need it because gearing the trial is better for the guild and they put in the effort...ignoring the fact someone else put in more and likely performed better.

Were there bad groups?? yea but likely they were less than the amount of groups that had wasted loot because of the ilvl restrictions

[lordjust]

https://youtu.be/sMmsFb9mf6M?t=739

Ion talks about maintaining two data sets, ui experiences, etc, and they wanted to get out of that. Not once does he mention trials or anything here.

I've read tons of stories of ML being allegedly mishandled. Yet I never hear stories about how people are given the loot they deserve. Why? Because whenever a piece of gear drops that is an upgrade for us, our natural instinct is to get our hands on it.

Nice try.

Define "loot they deserve". Preach is a big advocate for masterloot because in his raid environment (raiding with friends) it's beneficial for him. At the same time he has a viodeo on his chanel about his second guild he was in back in vanilla where he got one pair of bracer over the course of raiding in that guild while doing all raids after molten core. Explanantion from his guild master and master looter was that it's the loot he deserves. Guild lead and officers have first dip, twinks from guild lead and officers are technically still guild lead and officers so their twinks also have first dip and it's generally a bigger upgrade for the twinks in the first place.

Also in a raid environment it isn't always easy to see who contributed what to a fight. We have people in the guild who do more damage than others but parse worse for their ilvl and don't play mechanics but get loot funneled if possible (mostly trinkets or jailer weapon this tier). Reasoning of the raid lead is that their doing more damage and with better gear will do even more damage, while the items would be an overall bigger dps increase for another player, because they play better. Or another example. We were struggling at anduin. Second transition with the walls we struggled killing the second wave of small mobs that spawn. I switched to mecriless bonegrinder and delayed my bladestorm for the second wave of mobs. Killed the mobs and killed the boss. Praise got another warrior who was top dps overall but did like no dps on any of the adds. With ML he would've probalby gotten the shoulder module because it was an ilvl upgrade for him while it completed my 4 set.

[Lora]

horrible if true but it seems like its not. its group loot not master loot. adding the ability to ninja items is a horrible change for the community as it only produces negativity. if you participate in killing the boss, you deserve loot. you dont need to pass dumb cunts popularity contest to deserve loot.

[Dequanacus]

At the end of the day, any guild that abuses ML is a guild you wouldn't want to be in regardless of whether ML is removed or not. Ultimately, I only played with good guilds so it was always irrelevant, and people that were subjected to ML abuse will be abused regardless.

I do think it's an easy way to momentarily trick players into thinking its removal magically changes anything about the playerbase. It will always be the responsibility of the player to find decent people to play with.

[Othraerir]

it's group loot though?
even if everyone passes and raid leader needs everything, won't they be bound by the ilvl trading restrictions?
also, i didn't think you could need on items you can't use, or that isn't your armor type?

[Kithelle]

Hmmm , *adds a bunch of problems* you say - what problems?

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There is difference between been toxic with loot and distributing loot to people who matter on certain bosses during progression.

Greed, favoritism, and nepotism come to mind...easy to abuse the system and use people

[Biglog]

It doesn't sound like ML is really coming back, which is a good thing.

The problem with it is that quite a few raid guilds are a bit like a high school clique and/or have a group of 3-4 friends that are always prioritized for loot. Those guilds consider everyone outside the clique disposable. You have to apply to a raid guild, go through weeks of raids with them, and "bad" guilds will do the slow drip. They'll say, we're giving this to this other player, but next time it drops you'll get it. Then after a few weeks you realize what's going on and that the only loot they give non-buddies are things they already have. Go through that with a couple guilds and you'll find yourself taking a long wow break from frustration...