How much does race matter in WRATH?

[SinR]

The only time race matters in WoW is if that race can't be what you want to roll.

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Hell even on Retail it doesn't really matter, I think the delta between top DPS and bottom DPS is like... at most 400 DP

[Rusken]

I started the post by saying I read it off a guide and they made it seem like a big deal. I do not remember how the game played over a decade ago. I thought the advice given was weird so I came here to find out.

I mean, why question the guide? They're mostly written by people who've been playing private servers for years and know everything about the game. They're certainly good enough for anyone coming into Wrath for the first time.

If someone else got into the 1% he would have to try harder. He has to work hard to crush the spirits of everyone who wants to jump in for wrath. How dare they take his spot! They weren't there for the classic Hyjal raid what right do they have starting at raid content that they like?

Look, sorry for coming off as elitist, I'll word it differently. Racials don't make enough of a difference to warrant prioritising unless you want to push parses, or are part of hardmode/heroic guild that needs to push DPS checks and even then they won't be the difference in making those checks. Individual skill will also always play a bigger part in performance than what racials you have.

Sure, assuming perfect play and identical gear, an Orc or Troll will do more DPS than an Undead, but if the Orc fucks up positioning/rotations and the UD doesn't, then the UD will come out on top. Ultimately there's way more variables in actual raiding that dictate your DPS than getting a small AP/haste boost every couple minutes.

The biggest difference it makes is in gearing. Orc Axe spec lets them drop about 60 expertise rating which is fairly limited in pre-raid gear, and considering all the best weapons in Wrath are Axes it helps the whole way through.

[Firefall]

Play anything you want. The times that an extra fear break, short AoE stun, or silence matter are rarer but much much much more impactful than a little AP or haste buff.

[RoKPaNda]

In Wrath it really doesn't matter. It was a big deal in Classic because some racials were actually broken. In TBC it doesn't really matter, our fury warrior plays the second best race and it doesn't stop him from parsing really high. Our shadow priest is the worst race for priest. It really doesn't matter. It's going to matter even less in Wrath. Play what you want. Picking the right professions is a much bigger deal.

[Mendzia]

Profs matter, race for Warrior? Not so much. Just the other day I was watching a "Progress" SWP speedrun from the POV of a Tauren Fury Warrior. That's one of the best classic speedrunning guilds in the world. It really doesn't matter that much.

OP asks about WotLK not TBC.
In WotLK good profs are big upgrade for your performance.
Fitting race is smallish boost but still noticable.

Why did he use tauren in that speedrun?
I have no idea. Maybe it was just alt or something.

[GrinnersGrin]

From my experience playing in Wrath we had a strict policy on races.
Certain races would be excluded from legendary quest loot etc.
First Shadowmourne etc went to Greeks 2nd to Whites etc

[Drusin]

If someone else got into the 1% he would have to try harder. He has to work hard to crush the spirits of everyone who wants to jump in for wrath. How dare they take his spot! They weren't there for the classic Hyjal raid what right do they have starting at raid content that they like?

...ok then

[Bigbazz]

OP asks about WotLK not TBC.
In WotLK good profs are big upgrade for your performance.
Fitting race is smallish boost but still noticable.

Why did he use tauren in that speedrun?
I have no idea. Maybe it was just alt or something.

It was a fully geared dual glaive Warrior, maybe he previously played tank and rerolled Fury and either way it just proves my point that it doesn't matter when the best classic guild has speedruns including "not optimal race" players. The racial situation does not change between TBC and WOTLK for Warrior. Orc/Troll remain the best in PVE and Orc/Tauren remain the best in PVP but no more so than in TBC.

[deenman]

I was thinking about making an undead warrior for wrath. I am not attached to warrior but I might want an undead. I read that picking undead for warrior is the worst choice for a horde warrior. How much does this matter here?

Thanks

My take is almost always gonna be play what you enjoy first,but....if you wanna squeeze as much as you want out of the character,undead is a pretty bad pick

orc or human if u plan on pvp are rly good,that stun racial is like 1 sec less stun duration,and axe spec/bloodrage is a big package

also for pve trolls are very good,the 20% haste is huge and the 5% bonus vs beasts wile lvling adds up,and there are a few beast bosses

thats one of the awkward things about this period in the game,the racial differences can be pretty big,people will tell you that it doesnt matter that much...but cmon,undead vs orc is a joke

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if you wanna be a druid or a shaman you're shit outta luck on racials

what do you mean?orc shamans are really good,attack power,pet damage,and axe expertise(their bis weps) is pretty good

for ele troll with 20% haste is also good,and the 5% beast dmg really shouldnt be underestimated

as for druids,it does kinda suck,night elf has some nice pvp utility for druids and the dodge/hit racial is pretty nice

[mcnally86]

I mean, why question the guide? They're mostly written by people who've been playing private servers for years and know everything about the game. They're certainly good enough for anyone coming into Wrath for the first time.



Look, sorry for coming off as elitist, I'll word it differently. Racials don't make enough of a difference to warrant prioritising unless you want to push parses, or are part of hardmode/heroic guild that needs to push DPS checks and even then they won't be the difference in making those checks. Individual skill will also always play a bigger part in performance than what racials you have.

Sure, assuming perfect play and identical gear, an Orc or Troll will do more DPS than an Undead, but if the Orc fucks up positioning/rotations and the UD doesn't, then the UD will come out on top. Ultimately there's way more variables in actual raiding that dictate your DPS than getting a small AP/haste boost every couple minutes.

The biggest difference it makes is in gearing. Orc Axe spec lets them drop about 60 expertise rating which is fairly limited in pre-raid gear, and considering all the best weapons in Wrath are Axes it helps the whole way through.

I questioned the guide because it did not indicate how much the difference was. Which you seem to be saying is negligible for my play-style.

[Battlebeard]

This is the level of minmaxing that becomes silly. Not even those who race for world firsts really care about race. Play what you like

[Rusken]

I questioned the guide because it did not indicate how much the difference was. Which you seem to be saying is negligible for my play-style.

Yeah pretty much. In an absolutely perfect scenario Orc/Troll gains maybe 1% extra damage which just isn't that impactful. In some fights UD could even be better, anything with a fear/charm that Will can break leading to more uptime will make a bigger difference than Berserking will.

[Eldar45]

Your race literally doesn't matter past Vanilla.

[Kralljin]

Yeah pretty much. In an absolutely perfect scenario Orc/Troll gains maybe 1% extra damage which just isn't that impactful.

Okay, what "absolute perfect scenario"?
Neither Orc nor Troll racials are RNG based, they're on use effect that you simply write into a macro alongside your regular CD's.

If you're a Warrior you'll always use Berserking alongside Deathwish, as both are a 3min CD (and by the way, stacking CD's is really powerful).

There is no "perfect scenario", there is just a "You're an idiot and used your cooldowns incorrectly" scenario.

In some fights UD could even be better, anything with a fear/charm that Will can break leading to more uptime will make a bigger difference than Berserking will.

Both charm and fear effects are hardly common anymore in Wotlk as far as PvE, let alone ones that can be broken by racials / class abilities.

Arguing that that the difference is negligible is one thing, which is fair, but when you enter the territory of "Undead may actually be better", then you're just being a contrarian.

[Rusken]

Okay, what "absolute perfect scenario"?
Neither Orc nor Troll racials are RNG based, they're on use effect that you simply write into a macro alongside your regular CD's.

If you're a Warrior you'll always use Berserking alongside Deathwish, as both are a 3min CD (and by the way, stacking CD's is really powerful).

There is no "perfect scenario", there is just a "You're an idiot and used your cooldowns incorrectly" scenario.

By perfect scenario I mean more than just macroing BF to Death Wish, I mean using CD's properly and at the right times, doing your rotation properly, maximum boss uptime etc. If both races play "perfectly" then Orc/Troll is slightly better. Guides and Sims assume perfect play across the board to determine what's best, in reality there's too many variables that affect performance for Racials to matter.

Both charm and fear effects are hardly common anymore in Wotlk as far as PvE, let alone ones that can be broken by racials / class abilities.

Arguing that that the difference is negligible is one thing, which is fair, but when you enter the territory of "Undead may actually be better", then you're just being a contrarian.

That's fair, it may have been a stretch. I'll concede that UD has no major PvE benefits other than looking cool

[varren]

Only time it really mattered was in Vanilla where not playing an Orc/Human meant that super expensive mail gloves with no stats was going to be your BiS in most cases. Future expansions it's really not noticeable outside of super gimmicky situations. Speaking of just PvE of course.

[Jazzhands]

Your race literally doesn't matter past Vanilla.

Yeah high end guilds definitely didn't mass race change to goblin for jet boots when Cata launched. Horde definitely didn't become the raiding faction because of better racials through multiple expansions.

Racials have always mattered to the people who cared that much, even if they aren't in the 1% top players people still like to min/max, and a lot of people don't care what race they play.

[RobertMugabe]

It doesn't matter what race you play in Wrath as Alliance, even if you're a complete tryhard.
On Horde, Orcs and Trolls are something you should prefer if you want to tryhard, otherwise it doesn't matter.

There are no obvious massive benefits to playing a race, like it was the case in Vanilla.

[WaltherLeopold]

Profs matter, race for Warrior? Not so much. Just the other day I was watching a "Progress" SWP speedrun from the POV of a Tauren Fury Warrior. That's one of the best classic speedrunning guilds in the world. It really doesn't matter that much.

OP asks about WotLK not TBC.
In WotLK good profs are big upgrade for your performance.
Fitting race is smallish boost but still noticable.

Why did he use tauren in that speedrun?
I have no idea. Maybe it was just alt or something.

They're utilizing the fact that you can get tauren models through transporter malfunction in order to get extended melee range on your hit box. Doing this lets you stand at very far away while still in melee with targets and this lets you bypass certain mechanics completely, for example strider aoe fear on vashj was outranged by this method.

It's actually shocking how poor the answers have been in this thread. Race can be important for your performance, if you care about performance.

[voidillusion]

I'd say that if you really have to ask about races then they probably wont mater much to you, just play wtv you think is cool.

However, if you do think min/max is important then yeah they matter, quite a bit.

Since you mentioned Warrior, in LK Orc will keep the extra expertise when using axes, and the dps CD bloodfury will be enhanced so that it doesnt reduces healing received when you use it. So yeah, it matters.