View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #31001
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Apologies should have provided the link, full article is here.

    https://cibuk.org/uk-exports-to-eu-july-2022-1/

    How wonderful here in the sunlit uplands that In 2021 the UK was the fastest-growing economy in the G7. 2022 is not looking too shabby either, imagine if there had been no Covid how much higher Brexit Britain would fly!
    Going from 0 to 1 is a faster increase than going from 5 to 6. That's the only reason why UK was the fastest growing economy. If tanked so much that even a growth that is smaller in real terms would seem faster.

  2. #31002
    I love how Dribbles push export to the EU as a positive. He finally realised that trading with the EU is extremely benefitial to the UK.

    https://www.cityam.com/boost-for-glo...el-ever/?amp=1

    Businesses in the UK exported a record level of goods to the EU through April driven primarily by increases in machinery and fuels.
    “This is down to the UK’s imports of substantial reserves of LNG from countries like Qatar to fill storage sites in continental Europe, driving this uptick, said Jack Sirett, Head of Dealing at Ebury, a financial services firm.
    “This unprecedented importing and exporting of fuels is to support Europe through the next Winter given the uncertainty around fuel supplies from Russia because of the ongoing war in the Ukraine,” he explained to City A.M. today.
    Sirett added: “Despite the record export figures, the regular business insights survey continues to paint a picture of challenging circumstances for businesses trading internationally, particularly with the EU.
    Exporters were four times as likely to change the destination of their goods from the EU to non-EU countries than the other way around and half (50 per cent) of those experiencing difficulties in their exporting “said that the end of the Brexit transition was to blame.”
    Yet again you completely misrepresent facts. No wonder you tools voted for leaving, when you run with headlines like that.

  3. #31003
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    I love how Dribbles push export to the EU as a positive. He finally realised that trading with the EU is extremely benefitial to the UK.

    https://www.cityam.com/boost-for-glo...el-ever/?amp=1





    Yet again you completely misrepresent facts. No wonder you tools voted for leaving, when you run with headlines like that.
    And remember; only half of the Brexit red tape is actually in place. Because putting the equivalent import checks in place would be an "act of national self harm" according to Jacob Reese Mogg. So they've managed to fuck trade up as badly as they have with half a Brexit. If we ever had a whole Brexit, we'd be in a depression faster than you can say "dribbles lies with every post".
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  4. #31004
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    This is how it was looking before the Ukraine situation masked the real numbers:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...goods-services

    This is what companies have to say about the "brave new world" that Brexit has given them:

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5432184-...0-cb3a701e2226

    Here's what it's doing to shoppers, and how it's helping to worsen the cost of living crisis:

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...ikea-decathlon

    You give us one set of numbers, ignoring the reasons behind the movements of those numbers. I give you dozens of individual stories of the damage that Brexit has done in multiple ways. Your shit doesn't stand up to the briefest glance dribbles, because in reality you've got nothing. Your Brexit is shit, and it's damaging our country. And that's not just my opinion, that's the opinion of a majority of the country:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-opinion-poll/

    51% think it was the wrong thing to do. Just 38% think it was the right thing to do; which just goes to show that there is a decent chunk of the country that want to make decisions based on their "feels". Fucking snowflakes, if you ask me.

    I'd also link a recent set of polls, but I can't find it. It basically shows that only the 55s and older want to stay outside the EU, and everybody younger than that is massively in favour of rejoining. Which just goes to show that it's a waiting game; once enough of the old racist gammons die off, we'll have the majority we need to apply a bit of common sense. Hopefully at that point you'll head off to another country better suited to your mentality. Brexit is like those giant old dinosaurs; even as the body died, it took ages for the brain to realise. Brexit is stinking up the place as we speak, there are just some people that haven't realised it died yet.
    If public opinion about Brexit, that it is as shit as you say here in the UK, why are Labour the party of opposition not coming out and taking the position unequivocally to reverse Brexit? Surely that would be a massive vote winner and install them in Downing St for as long as it takes until we were back in the EU.

    Could you explain why Labour are not taking the re-join position and not shouting from the rooftops about rejoining the EU if as you say Brexit is an old extinct dinosaur and voters up and down the land are clamouring to re-join? Don't they want to get elected?
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  5. #31005
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    If public opinion about Brexit, that it is as shit as you say here in the UK, why are Labour the party of opposition not coming out and taking the position unequivocally to reverse Brexit? Surely that would be a massive vote winner and install them in Downing St for as long as it takes until we were back in the EU.

    Could you explain why Labour are not taking the re-join position and not shouting from the rooftops about rejoining the EU if as you say Brexit is an old extinct dinosaur and voters up and down the land are clamouring to re-join? Don't they want to get elected?
    Nationalisation is popular too, but Labour are backing away from it. Tax increases for the rich are popular, but they aren't saying they'll do that. There is massive public support for the strikes that are taking place, but Starmer is sacking people for supporting them. I could go on, but you get the point.

    Looking at what Labour is doing as any reflection on what the public supports is futile at the moment. You have a leader there desperate to sail so close to the Tories that there's a danger they could lock sails.

    Rejoin will come, in time. Once the old racist gammons die off, they'll be enough open minded people to make it inevitable. In the meantime, you just stick to trying to find a single substantive Brexit benefit. I'm sure it's there, if you keep looking.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  6. #31006
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Nationalisation is popular too, but Labour are backing away from it. Tax increases for the rich are popular, but they aren't saying they'll do that. There is massive public support for the strikes that are taking place, but Starmer is sacking people for supporting them. I could go on, but you get the point.

    Looking at what Labour is doing as any reflection on what the public supports is futile at the moment. You have a leader there desperate to sail so close to the Tories that there's a danger they could lock sails.

    Rejoin will come, in time. Once the old racist gammons die off, they'll be enough open minded people to make it inevitable. In the meantime, you just stick to trying to find a single substantive Brexit benefit. I'm sure it's there, if you keep looking.
    If there were no Brexit benefits and so many to be gained by being back inside the EU why are Labour not campaigning to re-join? The least they need to do is run on a ticket of another in/out referendum to capture all the re-join voters. You say everyone under 55 wants to re-join, surely to assure a Labour victory at the next GE that's all they got to do?

    Could it be that the reason they won't run with a manifesto of re-joining the EU is because nobody would support them and they would be committing electoral suicide? All a little odd don't you think? And you saying that once all the old gammons are dead rejoin is inevitable, I say that is nonsense. We have a quickly aging population, I'm surprised you don't recognise that as one gammon dies, another two take their place...

    Anyhow I see a rejoin EU march is coming up in a few weeks, we will be able to gauge the level of support from the numbers that turn out for it. If 51% of people across the UK think leaving the EU is such a mistake, as you say, then millions of people will show up no?

    I'm tempted to turn up myself for the giggles, but a bit worried it might just be me and Mr Stop Brexit Steve Bray present.

    https://marchforrejoin.co.uk/

    Pray tell will you attend?
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  7. #31007
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Nationalisation is popular too, but Labour are backing away from it. Tax increases for the rich are popular, but they aren't saying they'll do that. There is massive public support for the strikes that are taking place, but Starmer is sacking people for supporting them. I could go on, but you get the point.

    Looking at what Labour is doing as any reflection on what the public supports is futile at the moment. You have a leader there desperate to sail so close to the Tories that there's a danger they could lock sails.

    Rejoin will come, in time. Once the old racist gammons die off, they'll be enough open minded people to make it inevitable. In the meantime, you just stick to trying to find a single substantive Brexit benefit. I'm sure it's there, if you keep looking.
    Rejoin will be costly. No exceptions anymore.
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  8. #31008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Rejoin will be costly. No exceptions anymore.
    Probably yeah, but I'd imagine it would pay off in the long run. Assuming the deal UK would get would be what they already had, prior to Brexit. Which is something I think they'd get, for the best interest for both groups.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  9. #31009
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Rejoin will be costly. No exceptions anymore.
    I'm not denying it. We'll never get as good a deal as we had. But I suspect that our position as a major trading partner would allow us to rejoin the EU with some exceptions, like retaining the pound. No rebate, no veto seem very likely.

    I'd expect it to happen in stages anyway, over a fairly long period of time. Closer ties to start with, then a Norway style deal. We're not just going to jump back in. But regardless of the costs, it's clear now that the benefits outweigh them. 4% of GDP adds up very quickly as the years go by.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  10. #31010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    I'm not denying it. We'll never get as good a deal as we had. But I suspect that our position as a major trading partner would allow us to rejoin the EU with some exceptions, like retaining the pound. No rebate, no veto seem very likely.

    I'd expect it to happen in stages anyway, over a fairly long period of time. Closer ties to start with, then a Norway style deal. We're not just going to jump back in. But regardless of the costs, it's clear now that the benefits outweigh them. 4% of GDP adds up very quickly as the years go by.
    I'm not entirely sure you'd be allowed to keep the pound, but I'm not really that well versed in EU politics. It just seems like it would be one of those things you'd be forced to accept to make a statement that everyone joining has to accept the Euro, rather than be allowed to stay on their own currency.

    If you went with a deal to join the EEA like Norway instead, you could probably keep it, since you wouldn't be EU core, but then you also wouldn't get to vote

  11. #31011
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    I'm not denying it. We'll never get as good a deal as we had. But I suspect that our position as a major trading partner would allow us to rejoin the EU with some exceptions, like retaining the pound. No rebate, no veto seem very likely.
    The Veto will stay, every member gets a veto. That was not some sort of exception Britain had. It's why the EU has to put up with Poland and Hungary since they veto any issues the EU has with the other.

  12. #31012
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    The Veto will stay, every member gets a veto. That was not some sort of exception Britain had. It's why the EU has to put up with Poland and Hungary since they veto any issues the EU has with the other.
    Hmm. I had it in my mind that we had a more powerful version of the veto; one that could stop certain things that would normally be a majority vote. But I may be misremembering that.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  13. #31013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Hmm. I had it in my mind that we had a more powerful version of the veto; one that could stop certain things that would normally be a majority vote. But I may be misremembering that.
    Every EU member has a veto in the Ministers Council. What the UK got was a few Opt-Outs at strategic times (See Euro).
    - Lars

  14. #31014
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    I'm not denying it. We'll never get as good a deal as we had. But I suspect that our position as a major trading partner would allow us to rejoin the EU with some exceptions, like retaining the pound. No rebate, no veto seem very likely.

    I'd expect it to happen in stages anyway, over a fairly long period of time. Closer ties to start with, then a Norway style deal. We're not just going to jump back in. But regardless of the costs, it's clear now that the benefits outweigh them. 4% of GDP adds up very quickly as the years go by.
    You guys still don't get it. Nobody ever discussed the pound. Denmark still have the kroner. Nobody cares. But as far as trading goes, every month Britain is weakening the argument of how important they are as a trading partner Russia is doing more damaged to the economy than Brexit did.
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  15. #31015
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    You guys still don't get it. Nobody ever discussed the pound. Denmark still have the kroner. Nobody cares. But as far as trading goes, every month Britain is weakening the argument of how important they are as a trading partner Russia is doing more damaged to the economy than Brexit did.
    I'd say the fact the UK stayed out of the Euro was truly problematic and one of the main reasons why the Euro failed to become a valid alternative as a reserve currency to the dollar, remaining a diversification option (and sure a currency you still want to hold for trading).

  16. #31016
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Rejoin will be costly. No exceptions anymore.
    Dunno about that...

    If the UK decides that it wants back in, I'm willing to bet the EU will take them with open arms.
    unclench your jaw

  17. #31017
    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    Dunno about that...

    If the UK decides that it wants back in, I'm willing to bet the EU will take them with open arms.
    The EU will happily take back the UK but there really is no way to sell them regaining the privileged position they once enjoyed.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  18. #31018
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I'd say the fact the UK stayed out of the Euro was truly problematic and one of the main reasons why the Euro failed to become a valid alternative as a reserve currency to the dollar, remaining a diversification option (and sure a currency you still want to hold for trading).
    While that may or may not be true, it still didn't mean that anyone tried to force the UK to give up their pound. Just like Denmark still holds the Kroner. Would we have liked everyone to use the Euro? Sure. But we can stop talking about that for now, as clearly it wasn't the reason why Britain left the EU nor is it the reason why they might want to stay out of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    Dunno about that...

    If the UK decides that it wants back in, I'm willing to bet the EU will take them with open arms.
    Sure, just like the EU would bend over backwards to keep the UK in, eh? How are people still not thinking clearly about this or acknowledge that the EU is not the UK's bitch?
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  19. #31019
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    While that may or may not be true, it still didn't mean that anyone tried to force the UK to give up their pound. Just like Denmark still holds the Kroner. Would we have liked everyone to use the Euro? Sure. But we can stop talking about that for now, as clearly it wasn't the reason why Britain left the EU nor is it the reason why they might want to stay out of it.
    I am sure if we go and check newspapers from back then we'll find a significant diplomatic effort expended to convince them and great disappointment in their choice. The Euro's failure to become an alternative reserve currency is at the crux EU's failure to set itself up as a dominant financial actor in the world stage. It's the reason the US can easily and without effort export pretty much any financial crisis to the rest of the planet while constantly strengthening their position. And at this point it's clearly too late to be anything but a diversification bet when it comes to currency portfolio investment.

    And the UK ABSOLUTELY would not want to rejoin with any enthusiasm if EU ministers insisted on Euro adoption. I have no polls to show but I think that if someone did ask UK citizens if they wanted to rejoin while keeping the pound and if they wanted to rejoin if they had to move to the Euro, the latter numbers would be significantly diminished. Thus the discussion is relevant.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    Dunno about that...

    If the UK decides that it wants back in, I'm willing to bet the EU will take them with open arms.
    This shows a lack of historical knowledge. There was great resistance to letting the UK join in the first place. Oh Germany would want them back and many countries might be indifferent but I can easily see the French vetoing any attempt and there are others who have made significant gains on the back of Brexit (e.g. the Dutch).

  20. #31020
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    While that may or may not be true, it still didn't mean that anyone tried to force the UK to give up their pound. Just like Denmark still holds the Kroner. Would we have liked everyone to use the Euro? Sure. But we can stop talking about that for now, as clearly it wasn't the reason why Britain left the EU nor is it the reason why they might want to stay out of it.
    Literally nobody suggested that they tried to force the UK to give up the pound. You responded to my post and suddenly got fixated on something that wasn't there. You want us to stop talking about it? Then you stop talking about it.

    All I was positing was that the UK rejoining would result in discussions about the circumstances that would entail. I suggested the Euro because I recognised that would be an area generating very strong feeling on the UK side, and having the ability to retain an opt out in that space would probably be necessary to secure a positive vote to rejoin.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

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