Group Finder for WOTLK is a great tool, why the hate?.

[Drusin]

I'm really not OK about how the comunity turned after they released LFD tool in patch 3.3. But as it is currently in BC, shit, i can queue in LFG tool finish all the island of Quelthanas daily quests and still din't got a group, by then i need to log off for a break.

Just turned lvl 70 and its so hard to get into a stupid normal mode 5m dungeon.

Do you think the community wouldn't be the way it is if LFD didn't exist? I feel like that's crazy because wow isn't the only game in the world, and look at how gamers are in other games. I feel like players would still end up the same way they are now.

[Tuor]

Do you think the community wouldn't be the way it is if LFD didn't exist?

No, before LFD people cared, they give their best, and they actually helped eachother. After LFD people just rushed everithing, and if someone is doing bad they just voted kick. This was a huge down in comunity.

[Tertullian72]

LFD was implemented for a reason. If you weren't part of a guild or a social group which played together regularly, you were relegated to long waits and/or spamming channels looking for groups. Inevitably you'd be stuck with the fastest, simplest dungeons because they were the only ones people were willing to pug (LFG Mechanar, etc.). That's less of an issue for Wrath than TBC because Wrath dungeons were built to be fast and simple in comparison to older content. They're also providing a version of what's in current WoW as a group finder, I think, so that should also help. I'd still prefer LFD, but we'll see how that goes.

It's interesting that they're taking the "save the community" line though. The old development team eventually caved on that, starting with instanced PvP and eventually dungeons and raids. Maybe things are different in 2022.

[Elbob]

No, before LFD people cared, they give their best, and they actually helped eachother. After LFD people just rushed everithing, and if someone is doing bad they just voted kick. This was a huge down in comunity.

you dont actually think people weren't kicked and replaced pre lfd do you? The game feels more rushed now because its a solved game, the average player pre 2010 was horrendously less informed about game systems/mechanincs/stat qualities which resulted in much slower content clearing. While currently players do try to replicate top tier players without fully understanding everything that is going on, the playerbase on average is far more capable then they were 10+ years ago.

[Tuor]

you dont actually think people weren't kicked and replaced pre lfd do you? The game feels more rushed now because its a solved game, the average player pre 2010 was horrendously less informed about game systems/mechanincs/stat qualities which resulted in much slower content clearing. While currently players do try to replicate top tier players without fully understanding everything that is going on, the playerbase on average is far more capable then they were 10+ years ago.

Sure... and all of that happened in a single patch. I was there when they implemented lfd, the comunity changed in a matter of weeks.

[Unholyground]

I think people are worried too much, there's gonna be tons of groups forming left and right for months.

[Drusin]

No, before LFD people cared, they give their best, and they actually helped eachother. After LFD people just rushed everithing, and if someone is doing bad they just voted kick. This was a huge down in comunity.

Yes but do you think that would not have happened if LFD didn't come? I believe it would have happened anyways as I also believe that in the same amount of time (2006-> 2022 = 16 years; 2022 + 16 = 2038) we'll have a community different than what we have now. People grow and are shaped by the world and their experiences continually so the community, I believe, will continually change.
Even without LFD I think the community would have arrived at the same place regardless. People born today will be playing by that time and they'll have an entirely different outlook than even Gen Z (Fortnite crowd) does now. Imagine what that's going to be like

[Fkiolaris]

I had not one leaver in the entirety of TBCC. ( in dungeons at least, PUG raids is another story )
And while i did not extensivly talk to everyone, a few times we formed longer groups for more than one dungeons and actually went to discord for a few hours.

That NEVER happend in retail since i think Wotlk to me. Definetly not since cata.

Stop confusing your experience with everyones experience.

In TBCC that was frequently my experience (people leaving 5man pug groups for boosters) after the Hellfire Peninsula ones, which is part of the reason I gave up. In Classic it was not a case until quite late, but the difference was very noticeable. And I know for a fact, talking to multiple people I know in-game, that was the case (to varying degrees) with all of them.

So to quote your wise words, stop confusing your experience with everyone's experience.

As for the launch of WotLK-C, yes for the first few months it won't be a problem for WotLK dungeons and Vanilla/TBC dungeons that are in main levelling avenues, that was the case even back in Classic. It's once the dust settles that the issues will arise once again and if it affects Blizzard's coffers enough they will do the usual 180 at the last main patch with some nonsense excuse, just like they've been doing with every idiotic idea they've had for the last 3 expansions (coventants swap, buying legiondaries etc etc).

[Elbob]

Sure... and all of that happened in a single patch. I was there when they implemented lfd, the comunity changed in a matter of weeks.

I was also there pre and post lfd and no it didn't all change in a single patch. I promise people got removed from 5 man groups before lfd, and groups didn't suddenly get more rushed.

[schwarzkopf]

No, before LFD people cared, they give their best, and they actually helped eachother.

If you were in the 'in crowd' sure - but for the majority of people, they were left doing job applications to be allowed into groups that did content.

Group: Have you done UBRS before ?
Person: No
Group: Well, come back when you have done it.
Person: How can I do it without a group?
Group: That's not our problem.

I remember spending hours and hours almost every night in IF with other (mostly DPS) looking in chat for a group and getting none.

LFG and LFR aren't perfect, by a long shot - but at least they gave everyone the option to do the content.

[axetofall]

Lots of nostalgia goggles over spamming the LFG channel here

[Machismo]

I think the justification for this is utter bullshit. Blizzard doesn't care about maintaining the "community." The current state of Classic is raiding guilds raid logging once a week, then people doing GDKP and boosts on their own. There's no community, it's a shitshow of spams in chat.

[irdsyd]

People who have dungeon running guilds / a dungeon group, play tanks or healers and set up groups ----> LFD ruins the community.

People who mostly play dps, play the 'wrong' class or use the 'wrong' armor and don't have the 'right' social network ----> we need LFD.

One group ---> having LFD makes no difference. The other group ---> no LFD means they cant play the game.

Yes LFD did have an impact on community. It also gave access to the game for a lot of people.

Here's a suggestion. Make LFD available cross-realm on the new wrath realms only. It will be a selling point for those realms and allow them to exist even if they end up with a low population. And it will be an experiment to see if LFD was the problem in terms of social impact.

[hexify]

The MMO players are gatekeepy af.

[Kikazz]

On Ghennas, the most populated horde server on TBC classic, it took me 1h to find a tank for BFD, while I was leveling a shamy 2 weeks ago.
The experience of getting a group together is horrifying on classic.

wait are you seriously complaining abouit finding a tank for a LEVELING dungeon....
at the end of an expansions life cycle.....

and then comparing it to how it will be at expansion launch?

[Debeisus]

People who have dungeon running guilds / a dungeon group, play tanks or healers and set up groups ----> LFD ruins the community.

People who mostly play dps, play the 'wrong' class or use the 'wrong' armor and don't have the 'right' social network ----> we need LFD.

One group ---> having LFD makes no difference. The other group ---> no LFD means they cant play the game.

Yes LFD did have an impact on community. It also gave access to the game for a lot of people.

Here's a suggestion. Make LFD available cross-realm on the new wrath realms only. It will be a selling point for those realms and allow them to exist even if they end up with a low population. And it will be an experiment to see if LFD was the problem in terms of social impact.

It's quite simple... no LFD, no $$. I have ZERO issues paying $0 to Warmane to play WoTLK for free, and have fun doing so. I wanted to come back for WoTLK official, but no LFD means I won't touch it with a 10' pole. Some of you hardcore Chads will say "Then go play retail!". That's fine. I don't give 2 f***s.

I think it's quite hilarious that Blizztard thinks LFD is what ruined the social aspect of WoW... not the other 50 decisions Blizztard made to push people further and further apart, especially as new expansions came out. But go ahead and blame LFD. I guarantee you it will be coming back... too much of a sticking point for people like me.

So I'll just continue to play on a FREE private server, the way I want, using your IP. IDGAF either way. You had the opportunity to get my $$ but you chose a narrow-minded approach to self validation instead of realizing the damage was done in the expansion AFTER WoTLK, not in WoTLK.

All good... enjoy making less $$. I sure enjoy not paying you to play YOUR game.

[Fkiolaris]

Here's a suggestion. Make LFD available cross-realm on the new wrath realms only. It will be a selling point for those realms and allow them to exist even if they end up with a low population. And it will be an experiment to see if LFD was the problem in terms of social impact.

Hard disagree on this one I am afraid, for multiple reasons.

1) LFD is something that a number of existing Classic players want with WotLK, but they don't want to start fresh because they have friends/guilds/money/items etc- what are you going to do for them?
2) Additionally, I am sure there are some new players that want a fresh server for whatever reasons (fresh economy/experience for everyone etc) that might not want LFD, so what about them too?
3) Your average gamer, especially in MMOs, in 2022 is so different from the people playing potentially their first ever MMO back in 2008 that you might as well call them a different species. And as you probably know, in order to draw any proper conclusions to a comparison, it has to be apples to apples.

I mean you could try that as Blizzard, but it won't give you an iota of extra understanding for whatever was happening in the community beck in 2008.

[Coffeh]

Sure... and all of that happened in a single patch. I was there when they implemented lfd, the comunity changed in a matter of weeks.

I wonder if people who say these types of things actually believe this crap, or they're just trolling.

I played since Vanilla. The best social interactions I ever had in the game was the last year of Wrath. As a casual I finally was doing dungeons at endgame, and a LOT of dungeons thanks to LFD. I met so many people. I had a lot of great conversations. It was an amazing experience. The content was fun and incredibly accessible.

Now Blizz takes dungeon finder away in Wrath and it's nothing but LFG spam with a macro. No social interaction. No communication. No community building. Pure business. Endless gatekeeping due to spec choice or gear. You're not a player; you're a gearscore. That is the reality of TBC Classic, and that is going to be the reality of Wrath Classic. Which is a shame because dungeon finder fixed so much of this toxic, game-breaking, community-destroying nonsense.

[Tuor]

I wonder if people who say these types of things actually believe this crap, or they're just trolling.

I played since Vanilla. The best social interactions I ever had in the game was the last year of Wrath. As a casual I finally was doing dungeons at endgame, and a LOT of dungeons thanks to LFD. I met so many people. I had a lot of great conversations. It was an amazing experience. The content was fun and incredibly accessible.

Now Blizz takes dungeon finder away in Wrath and it's nothing but LFG spam with a macro. No social interaction. No communication. No community building. Pure business. Endless gatekeeping due to spec choice or gear. You're not a player; you're a gearscore. That is the reality of TBC Classic, and that is going to be the reality of Wrath Classic. Which is a shame because dungeon finder fixed so much of this toxic, game-breaking, community-destroying nonsense.

My server people just ignored eachother on LFD, anyone barely speaked, they just rushed to the end of the dungeon.

[mercutiouk]

As it sits, having played on warmane with LFD active and playing some beta with the retail grouping tool... I'm pretty easy either way.

YES hitting the "join queue" button, getting a dungeon pop, joining, smashing through it and going back to what you were doing was great. I DO think it's the start of a slippery slope away from the stuff that gives wow its... overall pull (having to make friends and getting in guilds/regular pugs for end game content). Playing an MMO as a single player game where interaction is only something done for more play options.... probably ISN'T the best for the game overall. Appreciate some folks just don't have the time and want a pick up n play style of game, there's a lot of alternative games that offer that.

The retail LFG tool is COMPLETELY fine, there will be a tonne of groups a lot of the time and I think a lot of the anger at no LFD will disappear quite quickly once folks get started on wrath and using it. There's currently a restriction on even posting in LFG channel (it being the only global) unless you or your group is listed in the LFG tool (another good direction imo, easily worked around ofc but at least it forces interaction with the tool by most people so... it'll become more normalised for use and give us healthier grouping options).

NOT having LFD and by extension NOT heading into LFR/etc could well make for quite a serious change in mindset from the player base as time goes on. Community rep/etc start playing a bigger part, toxicity is SLIGHTLY more neutered as assholes get side-lined and it might end up with a better community down the line depending where classic goes from wrath onwards.

The LFG tool in wrath now (having messed with it in beta) is a COMPLETELY fine alternative to LFD/RDF. Wait up and see how it plays before deciding the sky has fallen.