1. #28421
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    The antivaxxers pushed herd immunity through infection, even Boris Johnson attempted that in one of his press briefings. The people who mindlessly take the official institutes as their one source of truth went for herd immunity through vaccination. Rachel Maddow literally told her viewers that the virus would stop at every vaccinated person, that it couldn't be passed on. The partisan hack.



    That's indeed the blatant lie that was paddled by authorities and formerly respectable sources. And it's about time we grow up and accept that we've been had.
    So basically, "Because some non-medical officials were incorrect in their framing of the vaccine and its purpose/effectiveness WE CAN'T TRUST THE VACCINE!"?

    Because that's what I'm getting. Meanwhile, my vaccinated friends who got covid are all stoked with their vaccines as they've largely had mild symptoms they got over in a week. Because vaccines still work. Got questions? Talk to your doctor, why on earth are you listening to Rachel Maddow, Tucker Carlson, or anyone else who's decidedly not a medical professional and has precisely zero medical training to inform their opinions?

  2. #28422
    It's an ineffective vaccine, that's the honest observation. That there are idiots who believe that you mutate into a newt after the first jab doesn't mean that the effectiveness is anything to be proud of.

    And that effectiveness is something that needs to be communicated clearly now. People have to understand that the smallpox vaccine is a top tier vaccine and the covid vaccine is a bottom tier vaccine. Indeed I struggle thinking of a vaccine that performed worse than the ones we banked everything on.

    listening to Rachel Maddow, Tucker Carlson, or anyone else who's decidedly not a medical professional and has precisely zero medical training to inform their opinions?
    Or Fauci, or Rochelle Walensky, or the president of the United States of America. None of them issued a retraction of what they said. That's the erosion of trust I'm talking about. If Trump supporters or Tucker Carlson viewers aren't convinced by the vaccine then it's just another day that ends with an Y, but that's not the standard I'm holding to the rest.

  3. #28423
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    It's an ineffective vaccine, that's the honest observation.
    Ineffective at what? IIRC the medical community has never implied it was full protection from infection, but that it was always about reducing the severity of infection. Which it's actually very good at, as we've got extensive data showing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    And that effectiveness is something that needs to be communicated clearly now.
    It is, largely. It just depends on where you get your information from. Getting it from some talking head on a opinion show on the TV? Probably not exactly a great source of accurate medical information. Getting it from social media posts shared by your mates? Again, probably not exactly a great source of accurate medical information. Going to the respective health agency websites (CDC, NIH, many hospital networks like Kaiser etc.) or speaking with your doctor is where you should be getting your information from so you're not potentially falling victim to a game of telephone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    People have to understand that the smallpox vaccine is a top tier vaccine and the covid vaccine is a bottom tier vaccine.
    Citation/qualification needed*

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    Or Fauci, or Rochelle Walensky, or the president of the United States of America. None of them issued a retractiour own doctor)n of what they said.
    A retraction from what? I don't believe Fauci or Walensky have ever said the vaccine fully prevents covid. Yes, politicians have flubbed messaging and their communications teams have cleaned up afterwards, but doctors have been fairly consistent.

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/fauci-...well-infection

    Best I can find is this Fox video trying to dunk on Fauci for "admitting" that the vaccine doesn't protect "overly well" against infection, without any source for claims from him otherwise.

  4. #28424
    Herald of the Titans Tuor's Avatar
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    With, or without vaccines, covid-19 is the new normal. The virus isn't going anyway soon... or later. This thing has came to stay.

    As for the vaccines, we better start getting yearly boosts for new strains, because for the time being we all got the one developed for the original sars-cov-2 strain, which is no longer ideal.

  5. #28425
    It feels like a child hiding their bad grades from their parents, preventing the parents from intervening and redoubling the child's efforts to do better next time. Except this time it's from the institutional authorities that we tasked to provide us with the best information available and make expert decisions on which policies to implement. It's embarrassing and it's terrifying at the same time. They're career politicians trying to save face and it comes that the detriment of the people.

    Ineffective at what? IIRC the medical community has never implied it was full protection from infection, but that it was always about reducing the severity of infection. Which it's actually very good at, as we've got extensive data showing.
    Yes they did. They absolutely did. You are letting them get away with misinforming the public at such a heinous level. These people are still in their positions they were entrusted with. They are abusing it. Rachelle Walensky proclaimed that vaccinated people don't get sick and don't carry the virus. She even went around telling the public that vaccinated people didn't have to socially distance and didn't have to wear masks.

    Citation/qualification needed*
    The smallpox vaccine offers sterilizing immunity. Just like the polio vaccine it has shown itself to be able to eradicate these diseases from most of the world entirely. To put this on the same level of the covid vaccine would be doing it such a disservice. People are now experiencing that the vaccine isn't protecting them the way that was promised to them. But the smallpox vaccine will.

    It would be a massive blunder to plant this flag in the covid vaccine. If the monkeypox keeps spreading, and godforbid it becomes more virulent, then we're all going to need this jab. This time it actually protects people from getting the virus.

    All the logic that was used to push the covid vaccine on the public, it all appies to monkeypox right now. Masking, washing your hands, socially distancing and indeed vaccinating. It prevents the spread where the covid vaccine could not.

    I don't trust the institutes to be honest enough to face up to the fact that they weren't able to deliver the solution they promised, and that means they won't instill the confidence into the actual solution they're sitting on, the smallpox vaccine.

    It's such a horrible and unnecessary situation. Communication around monkeypox is already a dumpster-fire with people like Carlson coining it 'schlong-covid', it only prevents the people at the highest exposure situations, that's indeed the gay community, but also martial arts, and other contact-sports or people who visit lots of concerts and clubs. They need this vaccine right now lest they start spreading it to their peers.

  6. #28426
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    Yes they did. They absolutely did. You are letting them get away with misinforming the public at such a heinous level. These people are still in their positions they were entrusted with. They are abusing it. Rachelle Walensky proclaimed that vaccinated people don't get sick and don't carry the virus. She even went around telling the public that vaccinated people didn't have to socially distance and didn't have to wear masks.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00450-z

    Looking back at reporting on early vaccine data, yes, data suggested it affords some protection against infection. Yet I'm struggling to find anything showing health organizations declaring that it would protect against infection. The common line is that it reduces the chance based on data from clinical studies.

    Your bit about Walensky seems based off of misinformation - https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2PX1IZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    The smallpox vaccine offers sterilizing immunity. Just like the polio vaccine it has shown itself to be able to eradicate these diseases from most of the world entirely. To put this on the same level of the covid vaccine would be doing it such a disservice. People are now experiencing that the vaccine isn't protecting them the way that was promised to them. But the smallpox vaccine will.
    Again, not all vaccines are equal. This has been a thing since vaccines were first developed. Not all infections vaccines are designed to protect against are equal, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    It would be a massive blunder to plant this flag in the covid vaccine. If the monkeypox keeps spreading, and godforbid it becomes more virulent, then we're all going to need this jab. This time it actually protects people from getting the virus.
    Great, and regardless of if the vaccine prevents infection or simply reduces the severity of infections, jab me, vaccine daddy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    All the logic that was used to push the covid vaccine on the public, it all appies to monkeypox right now. Masking, washing your hands, socially distancing and indeed vaccinating. It prevents the spread where the covid vaccine could not.
    Except that masking, social distancing, and vaccines do work at lowering the spread of covid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    I don't trust the institutes to be honest enough to face up to the fact that they weren't able to deliver the solution they promised, and that means they won't instill the confidence into the actual solution they're sitting on, the smallpox vaccine.
    So don't? Ask your primary care physician for guidance, as they're going to know you best and be able to provide you with contextual information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    It's such a horrible and unnecessary situation. Communication around monkeypox is already a dumpster-fire with people like Carlson coining it 'schlong-covid', it only prevents the people at the highest exposure situations, that's indeed the gay community, but also martial arts, and other contact-sports or people who visit lots of concerts and clubs. They need this vaccine right now lest they start spreading it to their peers.
    For you, apparently. Not for the rest of us who haven't fallen for extensive misinformation. I couldn't care less what Tucker has to say beyond him being one of the primary sources of dangerous misinformation, anyone getting health advice from Tucker Carlson deserves their health outcomes.

  7. #28427
    Except that masking, social distancing, and vaccines do work at lowering the spread of covid.
    There is a day and night difference between 'lowering the spread' and eradicating a disease. People have seen what these measures do against an airborne disease. They're rightfully not impressed. And yet the Obama administration was able to successfully stop an ebola outbreak dead in its track twice through these measures. People have to understand that this is a different matter with a contact/fomite based disease and that distinction is being obfuscated right now. It's dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Your bit about Walensky seems based off of misinformation - https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2PX1IZ
    That's Reuters doing damage control. She announced it on the Rachel Maddow show. Those were her words. She couldn't even be bothered to walk back her own words, let alone do it on the same platform she announced.

    This is exactly what I mean. A rectification is absolutely worthless if it's done in the most quiet way possible in a different context than the false claim that was initially made. And for a reputable news sources like Reuters to cover her tracks is just downright revolting. This is access journalism more concerned with the reputation of an official than with accurately informing the public.

    It erodes trust in the institutions. We can't have that right now. Not while there's yet another gruesome disease around the corner.

    I like going to festivals, I like going to concerts and I'm hanging out in gym where people don't wipe their gear (not an euphemism), I'm planning to get this monkeypox vaccine the first chance I get.

    Any anyone who claims the covid vaccine is of the same quality is worse than an antivaxxer as far as I'm concerned.
    Last edited by Iain; 2022-08-01 at 08:49 PM.

  8. #28428
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    That's Reuters doing damage control.
    Pointing out two different clips were spliced together is "damage control"?

    First clip on MSNBC is her relaying what the data was showing at the time. Science evolves as we learn more, which seems really hard for some people to process as they expect that scientists/doctors will know everything about a new virus and new vaccine immediately. Which simply isn't how reality works.

    Second clip is from 5 months later, with additional data and variants (hello Delta!) altering what the data showed.

    Again, just because lots of folks are science-illiterate doesn't mean much beyond them being science illiterate. If they read up on covid and vaccines once at the very start of vaccines rolling out and then never again, yeah, they're going to be working with outdated information.

    You're trying to pawn off the personal responsibility of people to keep themselves informed on the people who are trying to inform them with the best quality information they have at any given time.

  9. #28429
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You're trying to pawn off the personal responsibility of people to keep themselves informed on the people who are trying to inform them with the best quality information they have at any given time.
    In this case that personal responsibility would include chasing down experts who are being booted off all official channels and social media platforms for not toeing Walensky's line. Geert van den Bosche warned everyone against mutations escaping the vaccines and not only is that exactly what's happened, it's also what's currently being used to exonerate all these false claims made prior.

  10. #28430
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    In this case that personal responsibility would include chasing down experts who are being booted off all official channels and social media platforms for not toeing Walensky's line.
    This just seems like conspiracy nonsense. You're pointing to people who don't know anything about vaccines or COVID-19, and thinking their ignorance is "good enough", and that their willful ignorance existing means that there's disinformation out there about the efficacy of vaccines.

    I can just pop on to my convenient government website that goes over this and get a quick overview; https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...ccination.html

    And it sure seems like the rhetoric you're claiming is being pushed just flat-out isn't. They clearly qualify the effectiveness of the vaccines, but that vaccination is still effective and important, because it isn't just about preventing infection, it's about the reduction in severity of symptoms.


  11. #28431
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    In this case that personal responsibility would include chasing down experts who are being booted off all official channels and social media platforms for not toeing Walensky's line.
    What are you even talking about? Again, the data on the vaccine changed over time and consequently the health guidance changed with it. That's literally working as intended.

    Who's getting booted off platforms? Because I can bet big money that they're booted off not for disagreeing with Walensky or any other medical professional, but probably because they were telling folks to take horse dewormer and shit, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    Geert van den Bosche warned everyone against mutations escaping the vaccines and not only is that exactly what's happened, it's also what's currently being used to exonerate all these false claims made prior.
    https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...vanden-bossche

    The guy pushing doomsday bullshit when the fact that the virus will mutate over time has been well established since forever? And that said mutations, in line with most viruses, will trend towards increases in how contagious they are while reducing mortality, as covid largely has?

    Again, the vaccine was never supposed to "kill" covid. It was supposed to reduce its severity and make it more manageable so we don't continue running into problems with overflowing hospitals and a lack of medical professionals to care for patients as we saw at the start of all this.

    Or was there something else he said that we should be considering?

  12. #28432
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This just seems like conspiracy nonsense.
    What is the conspiracy here? Edge here is saying that mutations escaping the vaccines is working as intended:

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    What are you even talking about? Again, the data on the vaccine changed over time and consequently the health guidance changed with it. That's literally working as intended.
    It's also why covid will remain endemic. And while it's endemic it will continue to mutate towards higher virulence which includes vaccine evasion. That means that the people who rely on these vaccines, the sick and elderly are especially fucked when a high vaccination rate is driving the mutation into lower vaccine effectiveness.

    You can strawman Geert all you like but this is what he's claiming. It's the same mechanism of antibiotic resistance and why doctors aren't just prescribing antibiotics to anyone who asks.

    And all of this is the opposite of vaccines that offer sterilizing immunity against contact-based viruses. Viruses that should not ever become endemic. The official institutions are not making the distinction here. They're still busy gaslighting people about what they promised.


    From the article:
    https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...vanden-bossche
    More broadly, data from the vaccine clinical trials and from countries that have vaccinated a large percentage of their population show a significant reduction in cases and mortality. The vaccines are working.
    Here we go again. The author believes zero-covid was still a viable path. Which makes sense because the article is from march 2021. Because that which Geert was warning about, resistant mutations, hadn't occurred yet, this author had the audacity to call Geert a doomsday pseudo-scientist.

    It's unfair, an it's arrogant. Especially when the public officials are hiding behind this mechanism to explain their abject failure.
    Last edited by Iain; 2022-08-01 at 09:30 PM.

  13. #28433
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    The problem with the covid vaccine now is that it's a total dud compared to the smallpox vaccine that's used to inoculate against monkeypox. So it's lacklustre effectiveness combined with two years of outright coercion has been squandering a lot of goodwill that's now required to get people to vaccinate against a disease that can be successfully stopped in its tracks by vaccination.

    Zero covid was bullshit, it was a dumb idea two years ago, it still is now, and it will never not be a dumb idea.

    But zero monkeypox? Absolutely. Very achievable. If we act fast, despite the covid vaccine poisoning the well of public opinion.
    ???

    The reason we no longer have millions dying is because the vaccines allow the body to fight off the infection. The job of a vaccine is to strengthen your body in the fight against a virus.


    There's no magical shot that keeps a virus from entering the body. Vaccines lower the chance of spread and severe illness by not allowing a virus to wreck havok. You teach your body how to fight off infection but fighting off infection still takes a toll on your body and some viruses can still put up a fight.


    Example of a widely use vaccine prior COVID.

    Chickenpox vaccinations are standard now. It doesn't prevent getting chickenpox but it will suppress the virus and lower the chances of getting shingles later or mitigate shingles.


    COVID vaccines prevent hospitalization and all we know may stave off some future illness directly or indirectly related to COVID.

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  14. #28434
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    ???

    The reason we no longer have millions dying is because the vaccines allow the body to fight off the infection. The job of a vaccine is to strengthen your body in the fight against a virus.
    The reason people stopped dying is because Omicron saved our sorry asses. What we were doing up to that point was a miserable failure. Even countries that were considered exemplary to the West, that had the most stringent air-tight measures and highest vaccine uptake, like Israel were doing poorly until Omicron came around.

    Example of a widely use vaccine prior COVID.

    Chickenpox vaccinations are standard now. It doesn't prevent getting chickenpox but it will suppress the virus and lower the chances of getting shingles later or mitigate shingles.
    Oh man I hadn't even considered the Chickenpox angle muddying the waters even further. It should be made clear that chickenpox is an entirely different virus. It's understandable that people will start associating the smallpox (monkeypox) vaccine with chickenpox which also would lower their trust in how effective this vaccine is.

    You are right that chickenpox vaccines only suppress the virus. But the smallpox vaccine does far better than that.

    This is a communication disaster.
    Last edited by Iain; 2022-08-01 at 09:38 PM.

  15. #28435
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    It's also why covid will remain endemic. And while it's endemic it will continue to mutate towards higher virulence which includes vaccine evasion. That means that the people who rely on these vaccines, the sick and elderly are especially fucked when a high vaccination rate is driving the mutation into lower vaccine effectiveness.
    Absolutely wrong. Again, the vaccines continue to show that they protect against severe infection. So if covid continues on the current path of being increasingly contagious while being less severe, we're on track to have it be endemic and a problem that comes in waves, but not one that overwhelms hospitals and results in massive death tolls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    You can strawman Geert all you like but this is what he's claiming. It's the same mechanism of antibiotic resistance and why doctors aren't just prescribing antibiotics to anyone who asks.
    Elaborate, please. Why hasn't "Super-polio" popped up yet? "Super-smallpox"? How about "Hyper-measles"? Bacteria and viruses are different and are not modeled the same as a result.

    You just name dropped him, but I'm curious why you think he's a more trustworthy source than the rest of the medical community writ large?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    And all of this is the opposite of vaccines that offer sterilizing immunity against contact-based viruses. Viruses that should not ever become endemic. The official institutions are not making the distinction here. They're still busy gaslighting people about what they promised.
    Again, not all vaccines can provide sterilizing immunity, and that's just fine. Taht doesn't make them any less beneficial to individuals or society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    From the article:
    https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...vanden-bossche

    Here we go again. The author believes zero-covid was still a viable path.
    From the snippet you quoted? Because I'm reading that whole paragraph and the paragraphs around it, and they seem to be very clear that it's no silver-bullet but that, as the data rightly showed, it protected both against symptomatic infection and serious infections requiring hospitalizations.

    Which is, again, how it's been framed by medical professionals from the start. Some have been cautiously optimistic it would perform better based on early data, but that's about as close as we get to what you're claiming.

    Again, again, getting your medical information from an opinion show host on cable TV is not the best of sources. Getting your information about an new virus we're still learning a lot about once and then never bothering to check again, is a personal problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    Because that which Geert was warning about, resistant mutations, hadn't occurred yet, this author had the audacity to call Geert a doomsday pseudo-scientist.
    Because there's no evidence this will occur.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    It's unfair, an it's arrogant. Especially when the public officials are hiding behind this mechanism to explain their abject failure.
    No, you're just unreasonably expecting them to speak perfectly on issues and know every detail immediately and never need to update their guidance/best practices as we learn more.

    Again, stop getting information from talking heads on TV and go to the source: Respective health agencies or, even better, your primary care physician, if you have questions or concerns.
    Last edited by Edge-; 2022-08-01 at 09:47 PM.

  16. #28436
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    No, you're just unreasonably expecting them to speak perfectly on issues and know every detail immediately and never need to update their guidance/best practices as we learn more.
    Yes I am! Why on earth would you be rooting for public officials that are anything less than forthright to the public? These are important, highly influential well-paid jobs. These people aren't the protagonists of our lives, they're not selfless guardians watching over our health. They're calculating career opportunists, which is only fine as long as they're proving that they're able to be honest and transparent about what they're doing. If not then then they deserve nothing more than a cardboard box to clear out their desk with.

  17. #28437
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    Yes! Why on earth would you be rooting for public officials that are anything less than forthright to the public? These are important, highly influential well-paid jobs. These people aren't the protagonists of our lives. They're calculating career opportunists, which is only fine as long as they're proving that they're able to be honest and transparent about what they're doing. If not then then they deserve nothing more than a cardboard box to clear out their desk with.
    I'm all for that, yes. But I'm also understanding of the current times we live in and that humans are flawed. Hence why when it comes to any topic, I don't look to non-experts to clearly communicate information in that field.

    Medical professionals, again, have largely been consistent in their framing at press conferences and when going on TV to talk about the virus and vaccines - except when people are taking comments said 5+ months apart and splicing them together to imply that someone was intentionally giving contradictory information vs. changing their advice/guidance based off the latest information.

    Again: If I'm looking to some opinion based news show for medical advice, that's my own fuckin fault. I'll get general information there, but if I'm curious about a specific topic they cover and there are experts in the field with more information you can bet I'm going to those experts. That's what they're good at. Now I know the generalized, likely not 100% correct information from the host and can seek out more information on my own.

    It doesn't help that we had officials talking about injecting bleach and sunshine early on, nor officials saying that covid was just a mild flu and would magically go away over the summer. I'll take someone who unintentionally flubs some information that's later clarified vs. someone intentionally spreading malicious disinformation, thanks.

    That's why I never took horse dewormer. Also because I've been following CDC guidance on masking and distancing, which combined with my ability to work from home has kept me covid-free, even as my roommate had a mild case of covid and was down for about a week.

  18. #28438
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    What is the conspiracy here? Edge here is saying that mutations escaping the vaccines is working as intended:
    The conspiracy is in the utterly baseless claims you made that the truth was being hidden and disinformation was being spread on purpose by the media.

    The reason vaccines have limited efficacy with Covid-19 unlike other diseases like polio and smallpox is that Covid is highly mutable, in the first place. And polio and smallpox weren't. Questioning the efficacy of vaccines against Covid on this basis is nonsense, and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the underlying pathogen.

    And all of this is the opposite of vaccines that offer sterilizing immunity against contact-based viruses. Viruses that should not ever become endemic. The official institutions are not making the distinction here. They're still busy gaslighting people about what they promised.
    You're deeply confused as to why smallpox and polio vaccines were so effective, and COVID and influenza vaccines are currently not as effective. Also on the time scales involved.
    Smallpox's earliest vaccination-type efforts started back at the end of the 18th Century. It wasn't until 160 years later that the WHO made a concerted global effort to eradicate the virus. Even once started, it had limited effect for years, before the intensified Eradication Program of 1967 kicked off. And even then, it took another decade of concerted efforts globally before the goal was finally achieved in 1977, nearly 200 years after Jenner first figured out that cowpox could be used to generate immunities in human patients.
    Polio, similarly, saw a global eradication effort kick off in 1988, and that effort is still ongoing, and by no means complete.

    Meanwhile, COVID's only been a factor for humans for a couple years, as near as we can tell. Expecting the same outcomes as smallpox and polio after both diseases had multi-decadal global eradication campaigns is absolute lunacy.

    All you're doing is demonstrating a weird hostility to vaccination programs. It's rather disturbing and you're right on the conspiracy fringe on all of this.


  19. #28439
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The conspiracy is in the utterly baseless claims you made that the truth was being hidden and disinformation was being spread on purpose by the media.

    The reason vaccines have limited efficacy with Covid-19 unlike other diseases like polio and smallpox is that Covid is highly mutable, in the first place. And polio and smallpox weren't. Questioning the efficacy of vaccines against Covid on this basis is nonsense, and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the underlying pathogen.



    You're deeply confused as to why smallpox and polio vaccines were so effective, and COVID and influenza vaccines are currently not as effective. Also on the time scales involved.
    Smallpox's earliest vaccination-type efforts started back at the end of the 18th Century. It wasn't until 160 years later that the WHO made a concerted global effort to eradicate the virus. Even once started, it had limited effect for years, before the intensified Eradication Program of 1967 kicked off. And even then, it took another decade of concerted efforts globally before the goal was finally achieved in 1977, nearly 200 years after Jenner first figured out that cowpox could be used to generate immunities in human patients.
    Polio, similarly, saw a global eradication effort kick off in 1988, and that effort is still ongoing, and by no means complete.

    Meanwhile, COVID's only been a factor for humans for a couple years, as near as we can tell. Expecting the same outcomes as smallpox and polio after both diseases had multi-decadal global eradication campaigns is absolute lunacy.

    All you're doing is demonstrating a weird hostility to vaccination programs. It's rather disturbing and you're right on the conspiracy fringe on all of this.
    A headstart is not an advantage!

    You can keep vaccinating the entire globe with these covid vaccines several times a year for a thousand years and you won't come anywhere near the spectacular results of polio and smallpox vaccines eradicating the disease.

    It's been two years since the development on the first strain started and we're still using that same vaccine today.

    Even Fauci himself said we'll need entirely different types of vaccines if we want general covid vaccinations rather than chasing mutations that are as good as gone by the time you update the vaccine.

    Just don't do it. Smallpox vaccines gives us the means to eradicate several diseases and all their strains, don't try to draw parallels with a vaccine that inherently can't.

    If you want to claim success, then point at the speed of development and the impressive scale at which the covid vaccines have been rolled out. That's a logistical wonder and deserves to be recognised.

  20. #28440
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    A headstart is not an advantage!

    You can keep vaccinating the entire globe with these covid vaccines several times a year for a thousand years and you won't come anywhere near the spectacular results of polio and smallpox vaccines eradicating the disease.

    It's been two years since the development on the first strain started and we're still using that same vaccine today.

    Even Fauci himself said we'll need entirely different types of vaccines if we want general covid vaccinations rather than chasing mutations that are as good as gone by the time you update the vaccine.

    Just don't do it. Smallpox vaccines gives us the means to eradicate several diseases and all their strains, don't try to draw parallels with a vaccine that inherently can't.

    If you want to claim success, then point at the speed of development and the impressive scale at which the covid vaccines have been rolled out. That's a logistical wonder and deserves to be recognised.
    You're still not making a single argument against covid vaccines that isn't just straight-up anti-vaxxer conspiracy disinformation.

    The comparisons to smallpox are particularly bad, since the techniques that work on one phage won't automatically have an analogue with another. Particularly as smallpox doesn't have, for instance, animal reservoirs, while COVID does.


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