[TV] Neil Gaiman's The Sandman

[Biomega]

I really really hate your dishonest crap. I explained my issue with it the character is a study in opposites she isn't Caucasian she is literally the absence of color wearing the amalgamation of all colors.

That's just one particular appearance of the character though, isn't it? It's one possible aesthetic - which makes sense for what it is, but doesn't mean it's the ONLY possible aesthetic, or that the character ONLY appears that way. They could have gone with that particular quirk, but it seems they chose not to. Which doesn't invalidate the character, or make it a misrepresentation.

It's just one aesthetic choice among countless others, some of which transfer over from the original comics, some of which do not. That's a rather mundane issue for adaptations of all kinds, certainly nothing to get outraged over given that it's not central or essential to anything of actual substance.

[Kathranis]

It's really amazing what they're doing with VFX on television shows these days. Really capturing the fantastic visuals of the comics, and some goddamn incredible casting too.

[Ihavewaffles]

It's really amazing what they're doing with VFX on television shows these days. Really capturing the fantastic visuals of the comics, and some goddamn incredible casting too.

Agree on Lucifer, not for Sandman, he, this Tom, is...boring...Lucifer is...sweet, and interesting character..

He feels like some standard b-movie actor wandered into the set..

[jonnysensible]

watched it today because im layed up with covid, overall not terrible not great. One of those shows that will never get a rewatch.

[jonnysensible]

Yeah, but you don't really like anything, tbf lol

i liked good omens and american gods (shame it got scrapped)

this and his dark materials were pretty meh

hopefully Anansi Boys is better

[jonnysensible]

5 episodes in, pretty solid. I can see why they made most of changes they made. Probably gonna stop for now after episode 6, just so I can at least see Death.


I didn't even know they were adapting that, tbh.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3520692/

no lenny henry in the cast tho

[Gabriel]

8 episodes in and it is pretty much perfect. I'm actually in awe.

[Biomega]

Ep 07 so far, and I am for the most part impressed. They did a really good job on this, far better than what I expected.

The John Dee stuff wasn't my thing, so Ep 05 I found a bit of a dud - but that might just be personal preference. The rest is mostly great, with only the occasional "ugh" moment where I think they messed up a little and/or overplayed it on the drama (e.g. the contest with Lucifer, especially "I am a nova!" when it's just a fucking meteor, COME ON).

Watching the rest later, but very nice so far.

EDIT: Finished watching, and yeah it's pretty good. Not without potential for improvement, but overall MUCH better than expected, and for a comic book adaptation it's doing a pretty banger job. I've never been into the Sandman books so I can't speak to source fidelity (as little as that usually matters to me anyway) but as a series I felt it came together quite well. There's also some very positive surprises about the casting/acting - I was really anxious about how Desire would turn out, for example, and I absolutely love the result. Death, too, works really well for me.

[Gabriel]

Just finished it. 5/5 adaptation.

The only thing that bothered me was that they gender swapped John (because I'm a fanboy for him), but it doesn't really matter in the end so ehh I can live with it.

I was really pleasantly surprised by how faithfully they tried to adapt the story. It felt like they really managed to keep everything important in.

Hob episode was my favorite.

[Kreuger]

Just finished it. 5/5 adaptation.

The only thing that bothered me was that they gender swapped John (because I'm a fanboy for him), but it doesn't really matter in the end so ehh I can live with it.

I was really pleasantly surprised by how faithfully they tried to adapt the story. It felt like they really managed to keep everything important in.

Hob episode was my favorite.

Isnt she ment to portray joanna, Johns ancestor? Or have I missunderstood, if so they havent swapped anythibg.

[Makabreska]

Just finished it. 5/5 adaptation.

The only thing that bothered me was that they gender swapped John (because I'm a fanboy for him), but it doesn't really matter in the end so ehh I can live with it.

I was really pleasantly surprised by how faithfully they tried to adapt the story. It felt like they really managed to keep everything important in.

Hob episode was my favorite.

Isnt she ment to portray joanna, Johns ancestor? Or have I missunderstood, if so they havent swapped anythibg.

Yes, it's not John, it's his ancestor. They brought her to present time as a replacement, because there was a conflict with other Jonh character from Lucifer series or whatnot.

[Biomega]

Isnt she ment to portray joanna, Johns ancestor? Or have I missunderstood, if so they havent swapped anythibg.

The ancestor appears, too, which is also a woman in the comics - they did swap the present-day version.

But yeah as people said it doesn't really matter that much. Would have been nice to see because who doesn't like John Constantine, but Coleman does an excellent job so it's entirely fine.

Speaking of reappearing actors, it seems they DID actively consider having Tom Ellis play Lucifer as he does in the other (now-Netflix) show based on the Sandman character, but apparently it would have been too different of a portrayal to gel well with that. That would have been... something else.

[Kreuger]

Yes, it's not John, it's his ancestor. They brought her to present time as a replacement, because there was a conflict with other Jonh character from Lucifer series or whatnot.

ok, good. Really like this one

The ancestor appears, too, which is also a woman in the comics - they did swap the present-day version.

But yeah as people said it doesn't really matter that much. Would have been nice to see because who doesn't like John Constantine, but Coleman does an excellent job so it's entirely fine.

Speaking of reappearing actors, it seems they DID actively consider having Tom Ellis play Lucifer as he does in the other (now-Netflix) show based on the Sandman character, but apparently it would have been too different of a portrayal to gel well with that. That would have been... something else.

oh, mayeb should have watched more episodes

Thanks for the explanation

[Rocksteady 87]

This has been a really good adaptation so far. Though I do have a few quibbles.

Like others have said, I'm disappointed that they gender-bent John Constantine. Sure, Jenna Coleman is doing a great job in capturing Constantine's essence, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a well-established character with an equally well-established look. Especially since unlike most of the other characters, he's not a godling who can appear however he wishes/however others wish to perceive him. I'm just not a fan of those sorts of changes; they could have taken the opportunity to create a new character instead (which, admittedly, goes against the spirit of adapting something).

I wish that Dream had his black eyes. I recall reading somewhere that they said it was too difficult to do or didn't look right, but I find that a hard pill to swallow as Supernatural--a show on a much smaller budget--managed to do it just fine with their demons. It's a trademark part of his look, and it was sorely missed. By me if no one else.

As much as I adore Gwendoline Christie, I wasn't a big fan of her portrayal as Lucifer. I also don't get the comment about Tom Ellis not being able to fit in; he's an actor, he wouldn't have to act like the garish playboy he did in Lucifer, especially since this could have been a "variant" of his that either never abandoned Hell for Earth or hasn't yet done it, and could have been just as serious as Christie's version was. And it's downright criminal that Lesley-Ann Brandt wasn't playing Mazikeen.

But other than that, and how the 24/7 episode dragged on, I'm absolutely enjoying the series. I hope it lives on, and that Neil Gaiman's other works get as faithful an adaptation in the future. God knows he deserves it being the storyteller he is.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Speaking of reappearing actors, it seems they DID actively consider having Tom Ellis play Lucifer as he does in the other (now-Netflix) show based on the Sandman character, but apparently it would have been too different of a portrayal to gel well with that. That would have been... something else.

It doesn't seem like Gaiman ever really considered Ellis for the role at all.

https://screenrant.com/sandman-show-...tom-ellis-why/

"The theology and cosmogony of Lucifer is a long way from Sandman's. It's "inspired by" Sandman, but you can't easily retrofit the Lucifer version to get back to Sandman, if you see what I mean. It seemed easier and more fun to have the Sandman version of Lucifer be, well, much closer to the Sandman version of Lucifer."

https://netflixlife.com/2022/08/05/i...cifer-sandman/

“Because his Lucifer, while inspired by the Lucifer in Sandman, is so far away in terms of Sandman continuity by the end of LUCIFER, that it’s easier on everyone to go back to the version in the comics. And this way you don’t know what our Lucifer is going to do. Tom’s is lovable.”

Also, nothing against Tom Ellis or the show itself...but the show and that version of the character are absolutely nothing like the source material.

[Biomega]

Also, nothing against Tom Ellis or the show itself...but the show and that version of the character are absolutely nothing like the source material.

Oh, absolutely. Very different.

My guess is the studio was far more interested than the author, because that kind of thing generates PR and promotes across series... But overall it's a good thing they didn't do it, and the whole POINT of this project was to give Gaiman the control he needs to make sure this is a good adaptation. And it is! Funny how that works XD

[Yossarian]

Is EVERYBODY gay also in the comics?

[Biomega]

Is EVERYBODY gay also in the comics?

Oh yes the comic has tons of LGBTQ stuff in it. Gaiman even commented on that, saying he finds it weird people are bringing it up for the series when he's been doing it for 30 years.

[infinitemeridian]

I haven't read the comic, but the show so far seems pretty average (on episode 4). It's not terrible or unwatchable, but I don't find the story, setting or characters that memorable. Hopefully it starts to pick up. And I don't know if it's just a terrible miscast, but Oswalt as the Raven just does not work for me at all. Idk if it's the writing or the tone, his voice just seems to not fit in at all.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Is EVERYBODY gay also in the comics?

There's plenty of straight characters. But yes, there are also gay characters, bi-sexual characters, pansexual characters, asexual characters, non-binary characters, genderless characters, characters whose sexual orientation and/or gender identity were never clearly established, and so forth. A whole spectrum.