"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
I'm giving them an out. If you don't enjoy the game just get out; it's pointless trying to convince others you are good by just paying if you don't like playing the hard parts legitimately yourself; actually good players are not going to believe you anyway and even if they did: most people are selfish anyway and they'd hate you so you wasted your money just to be hated.
Go play some single player games instead; e.g. the latest meme game Stray is good; be a cat.
You don't have to spend any money at all to pretend to others that you are supposedly better in the game than they are. You can see it here for free every single day in most threads. God knows, there's little enough of that visible in the game itself.
I think a lot of people enjoy the game a lot more than you imagine. You won't see them here necessarily. You won't even see them much in the game itself. They play alone or with friends or quietly dip into LFR once in a while and maybe do normal/heroic dungeons. Some of them find a social guild and are happy enough there picking and choosing what they want to do.
They aren't all that interested in organized raiding or high-level M+ stuff. They aren't great players but if they find themselves not having fun in the game I'm pretty sure they can decide for themselves whether or not to stay or leave without arrogant assholes advising them to go elsewhere. They won't see those sorts here because they don't visit forums (although they might visit a site like Icy Veins for a class guide. They certainly won't find one here.) You won't get much of a chance to see many of them in the game either as many of them avoid anything that smacks of elitist BS. They're not wrong and there's very little evidence despite the hysterics you see here all the time that they're spending any money to buy boosts. I know some of these people. I play with them. They think most of this crap is laughable. They're a lot more likely to drop some money on the store for a plushie and if they invest in a token it's because they want some gold in their bags.
You're so generous and not condescending at all to offer them an out. Don't be offended if they don't take you up on the offer. They are doing just fine.
Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2022-08-07 at 08:25 AM.
"...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."
Still not against the rules to sell anything for gold ingame. what they do with the gold after is something else and not corralated to the boosting for gold. also the "rmt" is not done by the boosting but the individuals who are paid in gold after, hense why the gold part isnt banned but what they decide to do on their own is something else.
Last edited by danki1337; 2022-08-07 at 08:40 AM.
You missed the part I see?
A boosting community can be seen as an organization.Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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Not against the rules for guilds and individuals to offer boosts for gold, not organizations and businesses. I know, you might miss it, but communities can count as organizations.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
There will be once they add the subscription to gamepass and I'm telling you it's an inevitability before that happens.
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It sure is but you can't nerf the world because people are retarded, that's why we have all these overcorrections in society now and people can't even discipline their own kids and shit like that any more without people freaking out at them.
Welcome to capitalism. Its more cost efficient for Blizzard to offer a legal RMT through tokens then paying for the customer support needed to deal with accounts getting hacked and stolen credit cards fuelling black market RMT.
Nothing to do with the world being to 'woke'.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Most players do not choose to improve their skills. You have no evidence to support that claim. The vanishingly small number of players that participate in the most challenging content runs counter to your claim.
People do the content they find fun, or they feel pressured to do content they don’t find fun and it makes the game worse for them. Your argument makes as much sense as saying that we should lock mythic raids behind getting a high arena ranking. Wouldn’t that prove that those players are the best because they’d have to be good at pvp and pve? No, it would make players upset that they are forced to do content they don’t want to do. You are not an idiot, I know you already understand this, so I don’t know why you engage in dishonest arguments.
There is absolutely no coherence to your argument as long as you continue to say that giving players progression based on swiping their credit card is preferable to giving them progression based on playing the game.
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Which is it? Is other players getting power they didn’t earn bad or is it trivial? You can’t argue both at once. It can’t upset you if someone can progress through casual content but then be perfectly fine if they can progress by swiping a credit card. That is incoherent.
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
You clearly don't understand how any of this works.
Person A: *Makes Outlandish Claim w/ no facts to back it up*
Person B: "Do you have any facts to back up your outlandish claim?"
Person A slaps down a Reverse Card from Uno: "YOU have to provide facts, not me!"
Do you still not understand how absolutely batshit insane your statement and line of reasoning is? If Person A makes a claim, it's on them to back up said claim with information, facts, and truths, not opinions or emotions.
Wait wait wait wait wait.
Dude, I NEVER MADE THE CLAIM ABOUT WOW'S SUB NUMBRS BEING LOWEST OF ALL TIME. REREAD THE QUOTE THREAD, PLEASETHANKS.
The actual fuck?
Personal Preference and Opinions ≠ Facts, Truth, or Logic
That argument is indeed incoherent- because you conjured it out of thin air to feel like you scored a gotcha. I never said casual players shouldn't have progression or that boosting is good; I specifically called out the idea that higher tiers of content shouldn't offer good rewards and that people who like it should just do it for no added reason. Anything else is your bias seeing things that are not there.
It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia
The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.
Participation in the absolute hardest content is small as it always has been. But the argument I'm making isn't that all players should strive to be high M+ key pushers, Arena Gods or Mythic raiders. Heroic and Normal raid participation levels are healthy and there are millions upon millions of M+ dungeons run every season. PvP content is just as popular as it always has been. The three pillars of WoW's content reward systems are working as intended. You're assuming that players need to get the absolute best gear in the game to satisfy themselves and it seems to me that most players are perfectly content with reaching the rewards for their skill ceiling then moving on with their lives. You're also insisting that there exists a significant portion of WoW's playerbase that doesn't engage with any of the three pillars of its content rewards system and if these players do not receive commensurate rewards on the same level of those who do engage with this content that they will quit. For me, this is fine because these players are playing the wrong game. (I do not believe this demographic is nearly as big as you seem to think it is.)
Moreover, this idea that people reach their skill cap then bust out a credit card is both incredibly cynical and impossible to ever prove or disprove. I'm not discounting the fact that some players do this (and some may even buy a token to do it), but I just cannot buy the narrative that this demographic represents a significant portion of the playerbase.
There aren't very many ways to interpret "if players want to do challenging content, they do challenging content". At best it means they do the challenging content for the same reward as everyone else- and that's not the structure WoW follows, or that very many games follow. Greater challenges, greater rewards. Yes boosting exist, yes it's a problem, yes it feeds off this model, yes more should be done to combat it, yes a longer-term progression path for more casual player should be introduced (Valor upgrades are one good way, or the current currency off bosses in S4).
But throwing the baby out with the bathwater because of the pet issue of some players is not the way to fix the game nor will it even make boosting go away by a long shot. Boosting feeds a lot out of the "I want it NOW" sentiment, introducing a longer-term progression path might slow it down but won't be even close to stopping it. Basically the only way to meaningfully stop boosting would be to hand out all rewards to everyone for no or minimal effort AND time invested- and not only is that not the business model of this MMO, it certainly wouldn't be good game design from where I stand.
It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia
The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.
Out of all people in the world who've ever played football (even as kids), how many do you think play it on the highest level?
The % of people who are best in any given thing is always astonishingly small. The best of the best up the bar for a small number of people who are capable of competing, leaving everyone else behind. That's exactly how we even got Mythic raids in WoW. If a big % of WoW players would be able to complete hardest content, it would make said content trivial for the best of the best. Why? See above. Does Blizzard cater to the best of the best? I think 9.2 tuning is a pretty obvious answer. Not many people participating in the hardest content works exactly as intended. No amount of new players coming to the game will ever change that, because no matter how many people try out WoW (or come back), the % of those who are able to play on the highest level will be still astonishingly small. Not because people don't want to or refuse to improve, but because most people in the world are incapable of being BEST, no matter how much they try. It doesn't matter how much work you put into trying to run as fast as you can, chances are, you're not turning into Usain Bolt, ever.
And Blizzard designs bosses that take hundreds of tries for THE BEST OF THE BEST. What's your chance to compete? Go figure.
So... you agree with me what locking progression behind challenging content does not change who enjoys doing challenging content?
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The way you should interpret "if players want to do challenging content, they do challenging content" is by reading exactly what it says, not trying to draw some giant thesis I never made out of it just so you can finally have the argument you've been rehearsing to yourself for too long.
I'm literally arguing for exactly what you suggested: "a longer-term progression path for more casual player should be introduced". That's it, but you are so rock hard to have an argument that you are acting like we disagree.
Boosting in FF14 is a virtually non-existent thing. Same for Destiny 2. It is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what we see in WoW. Why? Because those games provide a substantive path forward for players who don't do enjoy challenging content. WoW is built to encourage players to buy tokens so they can buy boosts. That's the structure of the game. It's how they have monetized the game. All the incentives now are too put as many walls up as possible so that players feel compelled to swipe that credit card. If you give people progression paths, they won't do that nearly as often.
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady