Spotify allows 6500 employees to work from anywhere they want. Its turnover dropping.

[Endus]

"Who's gonna follow the rules if no one is watching?!?!" is a telling stance to take. Says a lot about the person taking said stance.

Like, if you can't trust an employee to do their job, why did you hire them? If it's because they're paid too shittily to care, pay them enough that they give a shit and want to keep the job.

Micromanagement is a form of abuse.

[unfilteredJW]

Like, if you can't trust an employee to do their job, why did you hire them? If it's because they're paid too shittily to care, pay them enough that they give a shit and want to keep the job.

It's projection.

"I'm a terrible person when left to my own devices so everyone else must be the same way."

[Forogil]

The pedant definitely strikes me as a middle management goon that doesn't have a future with people working happily from home.

Doesn't spreading falsehoods and engaging in veiled insults tire you?

[Ghost of Cow]

Like, if you can't trust an employee to do their job, why did you hire them? If it's because they're paid too shittily to care, pay them enough that they give a shit and want to keep the job.

Micromanagement is a form of abuse.

I mean, it's definitely not that black and white. There are plenty of perfectly reasonable situations where employees need some guidance, direction, assistance navigating their role, and so on.

Hiring people doesn't mean that you think they're just perfect automatons that you'll never have to look at again or something.

[unfilteredJW]

Doesn't spreading falsehoods and engaging in veiled insults tire you?

Reading your faux scientific "literacy" certainly does.

At least the dialogue that follows is usually worthwhile, so I'll give it to you that in spite of your posts I get a good read from the posts around them.

[Ghost of Cow]

This seems absolutely bananas to me, since you're making a case that having a hard separation makes for better "balance", because you can't be distracted by family things while at work.

There are definitely people that feel that way - though it's a bit of a self-correcting problem because those people will just ask to come in to the office to work.

[Forogil]

Reading your faux scientific "literacy" certainly does.

So you just double-down down on veiled insults and spreading falsehoods?

Do you think the same behaviour would be acceptable in a work-environment - especially remotely?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

If there was a "no shit, Sherlock!" award and all...

[unfilteredJW]

Do you think the same behaviour would be acceptable in a work-environment - especially remotely?

Of course not.

I don't work on a general off topic forum on a game website. Lol.

I'm sure you had a point intended but, yeah....you can come attempt to be a pedantic cunt in my kitchen and see how well that goes for you there.

[Elegiac]

It's projection.

"I'm a terrible person when left to my own devices so everyone else must be the same way."

I wonder if they're aware that even in an office environment most people do about like... 4 hours of actual productive work.

The vast majority of the arguments in favor of traditional office work all boil down to either trying to justify micromanaging, or being unable to conceive of a lifestyle in which people are actually capable of having social lives separate from their work spaces.

[prwraith]

As a manager my view on W@H is biased. The vast majority of employees I've seen can't self manage. Their productivity drops like a rock when they work from home.

[Elegiac]

As a manager my view on W@H is biased. The vast majority of employees I've seen can't self manage. Their productivity drops like a rock when they work from home.

Does it actually drop or is it more that your ability to force them to make a pretense of being "productive" by means of a pseudo-panopticon isn't as present?

[Endus]

I wonder if they're aware that even in an office environment most people do about like... 4 hours of actual productive work.

I would like to point out that if I'm staring out my window for an hour, or playing Solitaire, that probably is "productive work". My brain needs time to work things through, and distracting part of it so the rest can get work done is necessary, for me, because of my ADHD.
Then I'll stop doing that and I'll punch out what any of my colleagues produced that afternoon in about an hour, because I don't have to work it out as I go; it's all laid out in my head and I'm just dumping the product I spent my distraction time producing from brainspace to meatspace.

Sometimes, the time that doesn't look productive is productive.

And then there's Jimmy from Sales, who chats everyone up all day long because he's an extroverted knob with no self-control. Jimmy's an unproductive shit.

As a manager my view on W@H is biased. The vast majority of employees I've seen can't self manage. Their productivity drops like a rock when they work from home.

Seriously, see the studies linked above. That's just not what's been observed. Productivity has, in 90%+ cases, stayed the same or increased. Maybe your industry/company is particularly unique, but then you should blame that particular situation, not work-from-home.

[-aiko-]

I manage a small team of accountants so this already-an-anecdote is even less useful, but once we allowed work at home schedules our productivity increased an average of 15-20%. All of us are pretty sociable so any distractions we might have at home pale in comparison to how much time was wasted in the office chatting. Our most productive worker actually works a hybrid schedule, at her request. She likes the freedom but doesn't like feeling confined to her home.

It definitely depends on the job though, as others have already said. Obviously some jobs can't be worked from home. People are people so it's also easy to abuse a work at home schedule.

[Poopymonster]

I wonder if they're aware that even in an office environment most people do about like... 4 hours of actual productive work.

The vast majority of the arguments in favor of traditional office work all boil down to either trying to justify micromanaging, or being unable to conceive of a lifestyle in which people are actually capable of having social lives separate from their work spaces.

My SO's boss (the owner of the small company) mentioned that he can't justify paying the rent on the small office in the small building it occupies if they continued work from home.
He's a staunch Trumper and claims COVID is a hoax even though it almost killed him.
He also pays his employees quiet well, and actual does share profits when the company has a good year with rather nice bonuses.
He also owns the small building the office is in.

[Elegiac]

I would like to point out that if I'm staring out my window for an hour, or playing Solitaire, that probably is "productive work". My brain needs time to work things through, and distracting part of it so the rest can get work done is necessary, for me, because of my ADHD.
Then I'll stop doing that and I'll punch out what any of my colleagues produced that afternoon in about an hour, because I don't have to work it out as I go; it's all laid out in my head and I'm just dumping the product I spent my distraction time producing from brainspace to meatspace.

Sometimes, the time that doesn't look productive is productive.

And then there's Jimmy from Sales, who chats everyone up all day long because he's an extroverted knob with no self-control. Jimmy's an unproductive shit.

Even then, I'm very much in the Graeber camp of "a good half of societal work is bullshit made up to consume people's time as a result of work being equated with worth" so I can't exactly fault Jimmy for being unproductive since he definitely falls into the 'goon' category of bullshit jobs:

1. flunkies, who serve to make their superiors feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants, store greeters, makers of websites whose sites neglect ease of use and speed for looks;
2. goons, who act to harm or deceive others on behalf of their employer, e.g., lobbyists, corporate lawyers, telemarketers, public relations specialists, community managers;
3. duct tapers, who temporarily fix problems that could be fixed permanently, e.g., programmers repairing bloated code, airline desk staff who calm passengers whose bags do not arrive;
4. box tickers, who create the appearance that something useful is being done when it is not, e.g., survey administrators, in-house magazine journalists, corporate compliance officers, quality service managers;
5. taskmasters, who create extra work for those who do not need it, e.g., middle management, leadership professionals.

It's fairly telling how most of the people who complain about WFH tend to fall into these categories, on top of business owners who have a financial and social stake in keeping people at the office.

[prwraith]

Does it actually drop or is it more that your ability to force them to make a pretense of being "productive" by means of a pseudo-panopticon isn't as present?

Measurable drops, why would I say it dropped based on anything other than solid data?

[Elegiac]

Measurable drops, why would I say it dropped based on anything other than solid data?

Because middle managers have a vested interest in promoting WFH as a liability lest people catch on to the fact their jobs are pointless, much like business owners have a vested interest in doing the same because they have real estate investments to protect.

[prwraith]

Because middle managers have a vested interest in promoting WFH as a liability lest people catch on to the fact their jobs are pointless, much like business owners have a vested interest in doing the same because they have real estate investments to protect.

I just want the departments under me to run well and efficiently tbh. But if you go from working 40 tickets a day in office in 15-20 a day WFH. I can't actually justify having you work from home it's just, the worst lol. I'm all for WFH I even prefer it myself but it has to make business sense :/

[Milchshake]

Reminder, Malcolm Gladwell is the Joe Rogan for New Yorker subscribers.

Malcolm Gladwell takes time off from shilling for reactionaries to slam working from home: 'What have you reduced your life to?'




Also, the guy that everyone in the office hates. Refuses to acknowledge waiters. Quotes Cicero in his email signature.