I must admit, I was in wrong about s4...

[Pratt]

Blizz basically wants to turn retail into classic because it's cheaper. No thanks.

[Revamp Man]

The raid mechanics don't seem to really change much at least at normal which is all I really did this week. It's a good first try at something though.

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Iron Docks is MOSTLY fine with quaking. It's Grimrail that's a nightmare with it. Also Upper Kara in any of the parts with the bats.

we had to change our timings for a few things but i love the dungeon and not just because it gives a great weapon

[Biomega]

I've only watched it and not played myself; it certainly wouldn't make me sub again.

The raid affixes seem a bit of a joke, which is disappointing. The main difficulty seems to come from just tuning, and that's not... well, all that great. The affixes seem mostly throwaway mechanics of no appreciable complexity or particular impact. They barely seem to change how you do fights, if they even do.

The M+ dungeons seem fine, mostly because Kara was a banger to begin with, and Mechagon was at least okay. It says a lot about the success of SL's dungeons though if they just replaced ALL OF THEM (save for Taz).

What I think is a big miss is Grimrail. Nobody likes this shit. It's bugged, it's cramped, it has issues of all kinds, it's completely linear, and it has terrible bosses (last boss is basically cheesed by everyone because it's so stupid on high keys). No way do I believe this was actually fairly voted for.

Iron Docks looks okay, but it's not, like, the best dungeon ever made, either. The new M+ affix seems kind of boring and same-y, they tried really hard to make people actually do it instead of skipping, but it doesn't look very dynamic or particularly exciting. And M+ class/spec balance remains a very unfunny joke - and I say that as a former Warlock/Hunter main.

I'm glad they tried something new, though. It has misses and problems, but it's something. That alone is worth acknowledging. Did it bring a lot of people back to the game? I honestly doubt it, but there's few ways to accurately tell. It definitely didn't bring me back, or make me as much as even briefly consider resubbing.

[SinR]

Lower Kara can die in a fire.

Grimrail with Quaking can too.

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For me, it's pissing me off. Sepulcher was cut short, and I have to relive the reason why, yet again, I go another expansion without any CE achieves. My guild screwing up basic mechanics cause they care more about their parsing. 10 wipes to mythic Huntsman cause of people not ccing the spirit dogs properly.

Bro and/or Sis, if your guild cares more about parsing on progression content (and I use the term loosely here cause its Fated Mythic Nathria) than actually downing the bosses... I Think its time to find greener pastures.

[Th3Scourge]

I am pleasantly surprised. I was not looking forward to S4 at all with how much they had to nerf Sepulcher to make it fit. By the time we killed jailer a few weeks before S3 ended, it was basically a pushover and a real let down.

But the affixes give the raid a nice touch. CN had some good fights so it's fun to go back there when the power level of players is dialled up to 11.

I think that's the biggest part, I (and probably others) really enjoy when characters feel powerful to play, like fully empowered artifact weapons or fully stacked corruptions. Classes and specs come alive and become fun again. More of this please

[ohwell]

I am pleasantly surprised. I was not looking forward to S4 at all with how much they had to nerf Sepulcher to make it fit. By the time we killed jailer a few weeks before S3 ended, it was basically a pushover and a real let down.

But the affixes give the raid a nice touch. CN had some good fights so it's fun to go back there when the power level of players is dialled up to 11.

I think that's the biggest part, I (and probably others) really enjoy when characters feel powerful to play, like fully empowered artifact weapons or fully stacked corruptions. Classes and specs come alive and become fun again. More of this please

I mean if there were more renown upgrades etc they wouldn't had to nerf the raid. But you know some streamer somewhere convinced people to rage over systems without knowing what their real intent was. I mean Artifacts, HoA, and Renown were basically a more natural way to nerf content rather than bam hit it with blanket nerfs like they did for many other expansions. Technically the legendaries like the cloak and ring in WoD and MoP were also precursors to this. However, with this raid there was very little as the last real upgrade we got came just before the world first mythic meaning essentially short of gear everyone was using the same skill set as the top end.

[Th3Scourge]

I mean if there were more renown upgrades etc they wouldn't had to nerf the raid. But you know some streamer somewhere convinced people to rage over systems without knowing what their real intent was. I mean Artifacts, HoA, and Renown were basically a more natural way to nerf content rather than bam hit it with blanket nerfs like they did for many other expansions. Technically the legendaries like the cloak and ring in WoD and MoP were also precursors to this. However, with this raid there was very little as the last real upgrade we got came just before the world first mythic meaning essentially short of gear everyone was using the same skill set as the top end.

No one wanted more renown or system/time-gated power gains. They just massively overtuned the raid.

[ohwell]

No one wanted more renown or system/time-gated power gains. They just massively overtuned the raid.

Once again, no they didn't. You just had those things that someone told you to blindly hate that actively improved your character while the world first clears did not have those when they cleared. Meanwhile in Sepulcher there was absolutely no difference between the world first Jailer Mythic and everyone else except ilvl. So hate on it all you want, but don't call something overtuned because the gradual organic nerfs weren't there and you just hate them because someone told you to do so even though the world first showed they weren't necessary to clear. Both previous raids were cleared before even halfway to max renown.

[Drusin]

I wonder if people structure threads like this to try and be slick and say "You are wrong S4 is fun" by saying "I was wrong, S4 is more fun than I thought" because otherwise I don't see a point in structuring the post like that when you could just say "S4 is more fun than I thought it would be".

[Pandragon]

Bro and/or Sis, if your guild cares more about parsing on progression content (and I use the term loosely here cause its Fated Mythic Nathria) than actually downing the bosses... I Think its time to find greener pastures.

Unfortunately I can't. I play WW, so my guild options are limited. I did have a 9/10 guild in Sanctum want to recruit me, until I found out they just wanted a bench warmer for the nights that their MW couldn't be on.

[Th3Scourge]

Once again, no they didn't. You just had those things that someone told you to blindly hate that actively improved your character while the world first clears did not have those when they cleared. Meanwhile in Sepulcher there was absolutely no difference between the world first Jailer Mythic and everyone else except ilvl. So hate on it all you want, but don't call something overtuned because the gradual organic nerfs weren't there and you just hate them because someone told you to do so even though the world first showed they weren't necessary to clear. Both previous raids were cleared before even halfway to max renown.

You can call it whatever you like, but if the encounters were tuned appropriately, they wouldn't have needed to nerf the shit out of them.

[BetrayedOf52]

Dunno man, i hate S4. Did all the raids dozen of times last few patches and now do them again? Nope.
Also the dungeons, done them (alot) before and they feel old in my eyes.
Even Kara, wich is (was) the nicest instance ever imo.
It's just old content introduced as new. Not a big fan of that.

it's either that or 6 more months of s3. Ill take this.

[Temp name]

The tunings in dungeons is such a fucking joke. Some dungeons are ridiculously easy and others are legit healer nightmares. They're slowly fixing it, but still.
The raids also seem to be fairly easy

[Loveliest]

Iron Docks is MOSTLY fine with quaking. It's Grimrail that's a nightmare with it.

Yeah but we already knew what hell Grimrail would be with the tight train for most of the affixes. It's the fault of the smart mass of people that chose it, thinking "yeah it's easy and short in timewalking".

[dacoolist]

Lower Kara can die in a fire.

Grimrail with Quaking can too.

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Bro and/or Sis, if your guild cares more about parsing on progression content (and I use the term loosely here cause its Fated Mythic Nathria) than actually downing the bosses... I Think its time to find greener pastures.

The best thing I've seen this week EVER: the titles in LFG for lower kz.. now dont get me wrong: I'm there with them - I just barely did a 15 in time at the end of the week (I only pug) - but the titles of these groups are the best damn thing I've seen all expansion

[Gasparde]

yes this should be 200pulls per boss and 600 at least for endbosses. m+ should be as hard as day 1 with 50ilvl less so you need 5hours to clear it



nobody fucking cares about the tuning of this shit show of a recycled garbage

Jesus Christ, someone's got Daddy issues.

Doesn't matter if you think it's too hard, too easy or whatever. The point is that there's stupidly huge discrepancies between bosses / dungeons to the point where it's not even funny anymore. Like, the circumstance that you can easily 3-chest a +20 Junkyard with just about no boss having any mechanic that you need to be even just slightly worried about while at the same time struggling to get a +15 lower Kara done because every boss is about to brutally murder your party if you don't play around single mechanics perfectly... is fucking stupid. Doesn't matter if it's a silly joke season, this is bullshit.

[Azerox]

it's either that or 6 more months of s3. Ill take this.

Im just playing other games rn, if the KSM4 mount was something new/awesome i might have gone for it.

[Albertillo]

I've only played a few dungeons for now (Karazhan, Tazavesh and Mechagon workshop), so I cannot talk about the fated raids (although a friend told me that it was too easy).

For the dungeons I did, Karazhan lower in the first day was horribly tunned, but karazhan upper was one of the dungeons in which I had the most fun in a while. I really really liked it. Mechagon workshop was a bit easy and Tazavesh well, like always, it's interesting and I like it.

After doing them again I really thought that Blizzard did a good job making the mega dungeons, they're really fun to clear when tunned properly. I'm having more fun than in S3 (also because I was a bit tired of Shadowlands dungeons), so getting new dungeons gives a needed fresh air for M+ players. Let's see how the fated raids go.

[Aresk]

Once again, no they didn't. You just had those things that someone told you to blindly hate that actively improved your character while the world first clears did not have those when they cleared. Meanwhile in Sepulcher there was absolutely no difference between the world first Jailer Mythic and everyone else except ilvl. So hate on it all you want, but don't call something overtuned because the gradual organic nerfs weren't there and you just hate them because someone told you to do so even though the world first showed they weren't necessary to clear. Both previous raids were cleared before even halfway to max renown.

Unity and Tier Sets were the main power progression during the raid. Clearly it wasn't enough given all the nerfs,

it's either that or 6 more months of s3. Ill take this.

Four at most. S4 started in August. S4 ends--at the latest--end of November, given we have pre-patch + release in 2022. S3 was already cut short two months compared to S1 and three compared to S2, so that'd only be at most one to two months longer than the others.

[Thes]

It's aight might try to get KSM and will definitely play some arena while waiting for Dragonflight.