So… Tinkers

[qwerty123456]

According to Blizzard they can be.



So do Chromatic drakes, another type of artificial dragon.



People wanted a magical flying reptile with the power of the aspects that breathes fire and can transform into a mortal.

That’s exactly what we got. Sorry it doesn’t appeal to you.

No according to Blizzard they aren't dragons. In the lore we got chromatic dragons which are real dragons that were created from multiple flights. Dracthyr were created from mortals because Deathwing thought that the other dragonoids/dragonkin were not adaptable enough. It doesn't say anything about him wanting a new type of dragon. He wanted soldiers.

What powers of chromatic dragons do they have? Wing buffet? Well birds and other winged beings in wow use the skill too. I guess that means parrots are dragons also lol.

No people wanted actual dragons. People wanted actual dragonoids too but they fucked us over on those as well. And no dracthyr do not transform into a mortal. They can take a mortal like form but they can't take a mortal form. You can't be a blood elf, you can't be a human,you can't be a tauren, you can't be any actual race in wow other than the dracthyr visage form.

[Teriz]

No according to Blizzard they aren't dragons. In the lore we got chromatic dragons which are real dragons that were created from multiple flights. Dracthyr were created from mortals because Deathwing thought that the other dragonoids/dragonkin were not adaptable enough. It doesn't say anything about him wanting a new type of dragon. He wanted soldiers.

The adaptability of mortals, not mortals in of themselves. There is a difference between dragons and dragon men. The Dracthyr are not dragonmen like Maloriak for example.

What powers of chromatic dragons do they have? Wing buffet? Well birds and other winged beings in wow use the skill too. I guess that means parrots are dragons also lol.

I said the powers of the five dragon flights, not the power of chromatic dragons. That said, they do have abilities like Pyre, which combine the power of all five flights at once, and is called Prismatic magic.

No people wanted actual dragons.

And again, we got them. You have a magical winged reptile that breathes fire.

I can hold a picture up of a Dracthyr to any non-WoW player who doesn’t have some goofy hate boner, and they would say without hesitation that a dracthyr is a dragon.

[Triceron]

I fail to see how any of that means "severing all ties to the Undermine", honestly.

I mean, you could always do your own research instead of jumping into Goblin discussion with dick-all knowledge on the subject. Like, just roll a goblin, level to 10 and delete. Should take what, a couple hours tops?

[ProphetFlume]

I still have faith it’ll happen, and well before demon hunters, for whom there’s just no place as all their abilities have been given to other classes. Fanboys need to give up the demon hunter pipe dream.

[Dastreus]

The entire point of this is to show that there is a very viable expansion theme where Tinkers could be introduced. Obviously there’s a chance they wouldn’t introduce a Tinker class in such an expansion, but it’s rather unlikely.

Heck, one of the major areas of Undermine is the Tinker’s Union where the world’s Tinkers congregate and create inventions and push scientific discovery. Seems like an obvious way to introduce the class to the game.

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I have yet to see an MMO that has a strong technology themes and not have a technology-based class to reflect it.

It's WoW. It breaks conventions on MMOs. Mostly, by routinely being a disappointment since Legion.

[Teriz]

It's WoW. It breaks conventions on MMOs. Mostly, by routinely being a disappointment since Legion.

That’s not valid reasoning. WoW has a strong tech-based sub theme, a profession based on technology, multiple heroes and villains who use technology as a source of power in lore, and multiple playable races who are themed around the use of technology. There’s zero reason for there not to be a class based on it. No others thematic in the game has such a strong presence but has zero representation in the class lineup.

[Dastreus]

That’s not valid reasoning. WoW has a strong tech-based sub theme, a profession based on technology, multiple heroes and villains who use technology as a source of power in lore, and multiple playable races who are themed around the use of technology. There’s zero reason for there not to be a class based on it. No others thematic in the game has such a strong presence but has zero representation in the class lineup.

Exactly. Zero reason for it, so they'll find a reason, to continue their legacy of disappointment.

[Teriz]

Exactly. Zero reason for it, so they'll find a reason, to continue their legacy of disappointment.

There’s a difference between you projecting because you have some weird axe to grind, and Blizzard’s design policy. Please don’t confuse the two as one in the same.

[Orby]

The copuim is so strong with these tinker boiz

I can quit anytime I like... *inhale*... there will be tinkers...

[loras]

After all that debate and discussion on the forum, it never happened. Given how WoW tends to not release classes very often, have people given up hope of ever seeing the Tinker class in game yet?

Me personally I would love a Bard/Musical class. Dark Age of Camelot had 3! One for each faction. They were:
Bard - healers with great CC and pulsing group buffs (could choose 1, like auras)
Minstrel - think a musical rogue fighter. Could stealth and climb walls. Could crowd control and temporarily ‘charm’ high level mobs to fight with them.
Skald - Warrior musician. Would fight toe to toe and offer combat support.

Some of these would be great for WoW. But I guess it will be years before we see another class after Evoker?

They seem intent on more frequent classes, given the last two being 2-speccers.

Personally i would like it if they shore up DH and evoker to three specs.
Give DHs a bow and let them use some magic or something for the third spec, evokers i still need to see in action but them lacking melee and tanking options makes a tankspecc seem a nobrainer... if they can make it work with its mechanics.

[Gumble]

There’s a difference between you projecting because you have some weird axe to grind, and Blizzard’s design policy. Please don’t confuse the two as one in the same.

Lol just saw this and thought "Teriz won't be able to resist"

[Ielenia]

Not even remotely dishonest.

Yes, and I explained so.

It's exactly the same. Blacksmiths make weapons and armor to use in battle. Guess what Warriors do! They use weapons and armor in battle! Ergo, Blacksmithing: The Class in the "dumbed down to levels that make Donald Trump look like a fucking genius" levels.

I am having trouble considering what you're doing here anything but a trolling attempt considering you literally debunk yourself but seem completely unaware of what you just did. You literally just delineated a huge difference between blacksmiths and warriors: one creates weapons and armor, the other utilizes said weapon and armor.

hobbyist who makes toys

And here's more dishonest. Nowhere in the lore (or out-of-game descriptions) it is said that the player profession is just a "hobby". This is just a dishonest claim you guys make to try to create a difference where there is none. I'm sorry, but a mech is not a "toy". A device that can resurrect allies in the middle of combat is not a "toy".

And the tinker is not someone who just "utilizes technology". They create it as well since, as I pointed out:

As for the "tinker - engineering" comparison... guess what? One is about the creation and use of high-tech weapons and gadgets, and the other is about the creation and use of high-tech weapons and gadgets, since the tinker would, lore-wise, be the one creating his own stuff, and not buying graviton bombs and heat-seeking missiles from the local general store.

You equate toys

I'm not equating toys to anything. I'm not even talking about toys.

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So are we going to address the point that Kul’Tirans didn’t look like huge bulky pirate people until BFA (Jaina and her father being prime examples), or are you going to continue to deflect?

What is there to address? You're acting as if the Kul'tirans are an exclusively "big/thick race" and that Jaina (and her father) are the sole exception to the entire Kul'tiran population.

So once again, if they can make a tiny group of isles the size of Pandaria in-game, making Undermine a continent-sized landmass shouldn’t be a problem. Especially since Blizzard originally planned it that way.

So you're saying that the entire expansion should happen solely inside a huge sprawling city? No outdoors at all?

Then they can expand the lore of Undermine, just like they did for every other expansion locale.

Repeating the argument you tried to dodge:

Blizzard can expand the lore... except when it comes to necromancers, right? Because when it's about necromancers, it's all written and stone and cannot be changed in any way, shape or form, right?

In short: you're once again engaging in double-standards. I.e. "rules for thee but not for me." Blizzard can always expand the lore, except when it comes to this thing that is not of my interests

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I mean, you could always do your own research instead of jumping into Goblin discussion with dick-all knowledge on the subject. Like, just roll a goblin, level to 10 and delete. Should take what, a couple hours tops?

Okay. I did. And I saw nothing that even alludes to "we're severing all ties to Undermine" anywhere in the leveling experience. Now what?

[Rocksteady 87]

Yes, and I explained so.

No, you didn't.

I realize you think you did, but you didn't. You're just wrong. Period.

I am having trouble considering what you're doing here anything but a trolling attempt considering you literally debunk yourself but seem completely unaware of what you just did.

Again, you have it backwards.

And the tinker is not someone who just "utilizes technology". They create it as well

Oh, you mean like Warlocks, Mages, Rogues, and Brewmaster Monks--just off the top of my head--who all cReATe!!1 (look ma, I can use bold, too!) alchemical creations (healthstones, mana gems, poisons, literal fucking potions) despite being... wait for it, wait for it.... classes! Heavens to Betsy! ::clutches pearls::

I'm not equating toys to anything. I'm not even talking about toys.

Yes, you are. The vast majority of Engineering devices are little more than toys, some more useful in niche situations than others. I don't give a single solitary fuck what your opinion is on the subject.

But by all means, show me the tanks Engineers create as seen by both goblin and gnome tinkers in the Island Expeditions. Oh, what's wrong, you can't because they don't exist? The closest thing is a completely non-combat mount that's just a toy rather than a weapon of war? Aww, shucks, I wonder why that is.

[Eosia]

After all that debate and discussion on the forum, it never happened. Given how WoW tends to not release classes very often, have people given up hope of ever seeing the Tinker class in game yet?

Blizzard already gave us a date for the Tinker class to be added... February 31st.

[Rocksteady 87]

I can quit anytime I like... *inhale*... there will be tinkers...

I can quit anytime I like... *inhale*... there won't be tinkers...

It's hilarious how you people think you're on some kind of moral high ground in these types of threads.

[XDurionX]

We've had this thread for a gazillion times already, and yet people regurgitate the same shit over and over again.

[Orby]

Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker... *inhale*... there be tinkers...

Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker Tinker types of threads.

yes. I agree we need more Tinker threads

Praise be our tinker overlords.

[Rocksteady 87]

yes. I agree we need more Tinker threads

Praise be our tinker overlords.

I guess the truth really does hurt.

[Ielenia]

No, you didn't.

All that you wrote there are dishonest, but the two I boldened up are the biggest offenders. How can you equate plate-wearer fighters to blacksmiths? One is a warrior that is knowledgeable in the use of various types of weapon, and the other is the one that crafts said weapons. Those two are not equitable. Same thing with mages and tailors. Mages don't go around fighting by sewing two pieces of cloth together.

And please don't try to equate bandages and venom salves to healing and support magic.

As for the "tinker - engineering" comparison... guess what? One is about the creation and use of high-tech weapons and gadgets, and the other is about the creation and use of high-tech weapons and gadgets, since the tinker would, lore-wise, be the one creating his own stuff, and not buying graviton bombs and heat-seeking missiles from the local general store.

If you don't know how to read english, that's not my problem.

Oh, you mean like Warlocks, Mages, Rogues, and Brewmaster Monks--just off the top of my head--who all cReATe!!1 (look ma, I can use bold, too!) alchemical creations (healthstones, mana gems, poisons, literal fucking potions) despite being... wait for it, wait for it.... classes! Heavens to Betsy! ::clutches pearls::

Nowhere near the same thing. 90+% of the abilities in your examples do not require crafting. Mages don't need to craft anything to shoot a fireball at your face. Warlocks don't need to craft anything to shoot a shadowbolt at your face. Monks don't need to craft anything to kick you in the face. And for the items that would require an actual object, such as the monk's brews, those are easily acquired as basically every town, no matter how small, has an inn or a vendor that sells brews, so it's easy to stock up.

Whereas everything in the tinker arsenal of abilities would require high-tech devices, from the most basic attack to the cooldowns, from attack abilities to defensive abilities, and engineering vendors are rare, and even those that exist sell only the smallest parts, like weapon stocks and a few bolts. Meaning the tinker doesn't have how to restock aside from creating everything from scratch themselves, therefore "crafting" is also an inherent part of the concept.

And, just in case you really can't properly read english, I'll elucidate on this point: when I say "crafting", I'm not talking about the in-game mechanic feature of crafting like the in-game professions. I'm talking about the concept.

Yes, you are.

No, I'm not. You're just misrepresenting me and creating a strawman to attack instead of engaging with my actual argument. You're engaging in attempts to argue game mechanics as lore.

[Biomega]

Nowhere near the same thing. 90+% of the abilities in your examples do not require crafting. Mages don't need to craft anything to shoot a fireball at your face. Warlocks don't need to craft anything to shoot a shadowbolt at your face. Monks don't need to craft anything to kick you in the face. And for the items that would require an actual object, such as the monk's brews, those are easily acquired as basically every town, no matter how small, has an inn or a vendor that sells brews, so it's easy to stock up.

Whereas everything in the tinker arsenal of abilities would require high-tech devices, from the most basic attack to the cooldowns, from attack abilities to defensive abilities, and engineering vendors are rare, and even those that exist sell only the smallest parts, like weapon stocks and a few bolts. Meaning the tinker doesn't have how to restock aside from creating everything from scratch themselves, therefore "crafting" is also an inherent part of the concept.

This is not an unreasonable objection, but it's not like this couldn't be solved in any number of ways.

For example, Tinker could just be centered around their mech-suit and treat it the same way dracthyr evokers treat their visage form - i.e. out of combat you can swap between wearing your suit or not, but in combat you always are. Tank/heal/dps specs would wear different suits. And the various gadgets and gimmicks utilized by abilities are simply built into the suit, and things like e.g. deploying a rocket turret would not be mechanically different by all that much from, say, a shaman dropping a totem. Firing your lasers or guns or whatever is just your equipped suit doing its thing. Spawning crawler mines works much the same way a Survival Hunter drops a cluster of bombs. And so on. The class fantasy of "crafting" would then be simply that your suit is refueled/reloaded/etc. while you're resting, much like that would work for other classes. The whole idea behind the name TINKER is, after all, indicative of someone who is very resourceful and can use a variety of things to build what they need - the fact that there isn't an engineering vendor at every inn isn't more of a barrier to that than the fact that there isn't an explosives vendor either, and yet Survival Hunters don't seem to struggle to keep themselves stocked with bombs.

Do I personally think they'll add Tinker? Who knows. But I don't see nearly as many mechanical OR fantasy barriers to them doing it, at least not in principle.