So in Dragonflight Anduin is a 30 year old manchild?

[RenTheCat]

You'd be surprised what a sabbatical in literal hell while being brainraped by satan does to a man.

He's got a better excuse than many here.

(which is in no way excusing the poor writing he's been involved in, but that's another matter)

Anduin is not a teenager anymore, writing him like someone with "clinic depression" that just can't deal with even leading his own people so manchildren in real life can say "he's literally me" is bad storytelling, it's inconsistent and reeks of self insertion. No story should ever ruin a character because people seek to identify with the NPC on the screen so bad, specially when the character is the leader of one of the two main factions.

[Lochton]

I’m not quite sure why he decided to stay in Shadowlands, but I doubt it’s just that. It probably has to do something with Light or maybe he is looking for someone there.

Who knows? Maybe he seeks reassurance in trying to get back on the path as he's currently experiencing mixed feelings from creating torment and horror to asking for the light's call once more? Maybe having a slither of hope in trying to find his father?

[Spey]

Yes Anduin is questioning everything he ever believed in life because he was mind controlled by a banshee in hell who made him do things he never thought he was capable of doing; you're calling fictional characters manchildren. I'm gonna side with Anduin on this one.

aren't you one of these feminst s**m? =)

[RenTheCat]

Sooo, you don't get the point that Anduin has been built up as to be something bigger in connection with the light by other members of the Alliance, then, after being controlled by the Jailer, is struck by fear and horror as he felt good doing these horrors, and proceeded to keep a distance from people because he's in fear that he's going to be judged for what he's done by his people, his faction, their temporary allies, and the light itself. A 18-20-year-old who then hides because of the mixed feelings during it, as well as the terror of what might happen now.

Instead, you call him a "manchild" because he actually does something a normal human most likely would do as well? I guess you are more a fan of the poorly written stories where the 'hero' just shrugs off whatever horrors just happened and act as if nothing happened and proceeds so on? Sounds like a dull anime.

The timeskip is set for 'several' years, some people marks 'several' as being 3-9 years old. Blizzard really needs to confirm a little closer instead of such a vague term though.

You mean like in real life where people have bad things happen to them all the time and they don't use it as an excuse to run away or need a "safe space" for "several years"?. This is not even the worst thing that ever happened to Anduin, and in fact he's completely blameless here, he was kidnapped and brainwashed, that's not a story you turn into "oh he's guilty because he did something bad and now he's running away". There are much worse things that happened in WoW lore and none of those characters just "ran away" for several years, and it's not "unrealistic" nor are they "anime protagonists" because they are functional human beings.

[Lochton]

I know but not because the writers or the users in this forums are depressed, suicidal and immature it means they need to project it into the story and ruin it for everyone else. Anduin is not a teenager anymore, writing him like someone with "clinic depression" that just can't deal with even leading his own people so manchildren in real life can say "he's literally me" is bad storytelling, it's inconsistent and reeks of self insertion. No story should ever ruin a character because people seek to identify with the NPC on the screen so bad, specially when the character is the leader of one of the two main factions.

I don't get your views on using the word "manchild" on a character who is OBVIOUSLY written to have to go through the process of his actions during the control, and the fact that he felt good doing it, as well, as having to process people's reaction towards him, and the main core of his life, the light, and the fear of it not answering his call. Doesn't have to be depressed but it sure as hell isn't a clean bill of health either. I'm sorry that you can't get the sucky writing of "oh well, all bad gone, now all is sunny and joy again", people like to flesh out characters and give them reflection points and reaction needs.

[Biomega]

You mean like in real life where people have bad things happen to them all the time and they don't use it as an excuse to run away or need a "safe space" for "several years"?.

But in real life there ALSO are people who absolutely do that. Trauma affects people differently. "No one else ever ran away" is not an argument for him not to be doing it, not in and of itself.

[RenTheCat]

I don't get your views on using the word "manchild" on a character who is OBVIOUSLY written to have to go through the process of his actions during the control, and the fact that he felt good doing it, as well, as having to process people's reaction towards him, and the main core of his life, the light, and the fear of it not answering his call. Doesn't have to be depressed but it sure as hell isn't a clean bill of health either. I'm sorry that you can't get the sucky writing of "oh well, all bad gone, now all is sunny and joy again", people like to flesh out characters and give them reflection points and reaction needs.

Right, remember when Tyrande's people got genocided and their new brand city burned and she ran away? Or when Jaina had the city she built from scratch bombed and her apprentice killed and she ran away? Or when Genn had his son murdered in front him and his city bombplagued and he ran away? Or when Kael'thas had his people genocided, his homeland destroyed and his fount of magic corrupted and he ran away?

Funny how being a "fleshed out" character involves pulling a Frozen's Elsa and not having to deal with the consequences of your actions head on. If he feels like the light won't answer to him because being "evil" was fun to him then he's free not to use the light anymore and be just a normal warrior or a diplomatic leader, Turalyon, the very leader of the Alliance right now also lost his faith in the light when he was young and he kept fighting the orcs and trying to save lives rather than run away.

[Lochton]

You mean like in real life where people have bad things happen to them all the time and they don't use it as an excuse to run away or need a "safe space" for "several years"?

Pardon me? Have you met someone kept hostage for months on end, and they were all fine after that? Have you met someone who's been under torture for months, and they were all fine after that? Have you met someone who's been forced to do things against their will, and they were all fine after that? Mate, people that have been through shit have a tendency to pull away from people, hide, make their "safe space" and many stays there barely daring to leave it without very good reason.

This is not even the worst thing that ever happened to Anduin

This WAS one of the worst things to happen to him. We don't even know if the worst, we have the death of his mother, the crushing of his bones by the bell, surviving and managing a short-lived assault on Ironforge.

and in fact he's completely blameless here,

Yes, you can say that but writing isn't so flat that a character can't feel the guilt of what has happened. Did you not follow the story?

he was kidnapped

Kidnapped, yes.

and brainwashed,

Brainwashed, not really, much worse, even Anduin can do Mindcontrol. He was controlled like a puppet. He saw everything, he felt everything, he did everything, the jailer just pulled the strings. To a person, that would feel like they are the one actually doing it.

that's not a story you turn into "oh he's guilty because he did something bad and now he's running away".

Of course, it isn't but a story has more pages than "the end" *queue sunshine*. He feels guilty, he feels he's done it because he felt good doing it. He is now from what we experience through the story, worried of being judged, and even more, worried that the light will not answer him. He then left while he felt he could be spared, trying to figure out himself.

There are much worse things that happened in WoW lore and none of those characters just "ran away" for several years,

How many characters have we had that have been through something so bad? Even Sylvanas is in a sense of the process. We haven't really experienced people under like Anduin. Arthas wasn't the same.

and it's not "unrealistic" nor are they "anime protagonists" because they are functional human beings.

It is completely unrealistic to believe that a young man would feel right to go back on the throne the month after he was the pawn of one of cosmos mighty threats, and one who felt good doing the deeds of this being.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Right, remember when Tyrande's people got genocided and their new brand city burned and she ran away? Or when Jaina had the city she built from scratch bombed and her apprentice killed and she ran away? Or when Genn had his son murdered in front him and his city bombplagued and he ran away? Or when Kael'thas had his people genocided, his homeland destroyed and his fount of magic corrupted and he ran away?

Funny how being a "fleshed out" character involves pulling a Frozen's Elsa and not having to deal with the consequences of your actions head on. If he feels like the light won't answer to him because being "evil" was fun to him then he's free not to use the light anymore and be just a normal warrior or a diplomatic leader, Turalyon, the very leader of the Alliance right now also lost his faith in the light when he was young and he kept fighting the orcs and trying to save lives rather than run away.

He didn’t run away; he just decided to stay in the Shadowlands for a while. I don’t see anything wrong or cowardly with that. Remember that domination magic is almost impossible to break. Most of the time, a person has to die in order for it to wear off.

[Lochton]

Right, remember when Tyrande's people got genocided and their new brand city burned and she ran away?

Their "brand new city" wasn't that brand new but new, aye. And she didn't really run away, now did she? She invoked the blessing of Elune for the powers and ability to chase down Sylvanas. As well, you cannot really compare her actions with Anduin's due to the fact that she's seen much more shit to keep her to a point instead of fracture right away.

Or when Jaina had the city she built from scratch bombed and her apprentice killed and she ran away?

Ran away? Dude, the fuck you on about? Ran away? She went on a spree in Dalaran, as well as attempted to destroy Orgrimmar with a living wave (A massive wave created by enslaved elementals) in deep fury. Just like Tyrande, fury. Both did not go through the same as Anduin. If you were to compare it, it would be Jaina triggering the bomb.

Or when Genn had his son murdered in front him and his city bombplagued and he ran away?

Genn went with fury too. Anduin is not like Genn, or his father, Varian would've gone with fury too.

Or when Kael'thas had his people genocided, his homeland destroyed and his fount of magic corrupted and he ran away?

Once more, a character who went with fury, and scheming, hid away until he held enough power to make his plans come true.

Funny how being a "fleshed out" character involves pulling a Frozen's Elsa and not having to deal with the consequences of your actions head on.

Your four examples all went with fury, wish of death, and destruction. There's no pretty Elsa story with those four, nor is there with Anduin.

If he feels like the light won't answer to him because being "evil" was fun to him then he's free not to use the light anymore and be just a normal warrior or a diplomatic leader,

You don't known the Anduin Wrynn character? He loves being part of the light. It is part of his identity. It is something he measured against his father, a renowned warrior who in the end bowed to the pride of his son and the might of his light in understanding that his son had a different path. Velen have high visions of him. Wrathion has high visions of him, even members of the Horde did.

Turalyon, the very leader of the Alliance right now also lost his faith in the light when he was young and he kept fighting the orcs and trying to save lives rather than run away.

And Turalyon was cool until he was brought back. His story was great as the last stand moment but now he's back, it is a pure mary-sue. 1000 years of war experience, prolonged lifespan, the blessing of the light even though misused.

[RenTheCat]

Pardon me? Have you met someone kept hostage for months on end, and they were all fine after that? Have you met someone who's been under torture for months, and they were all fine after that? Have you met someone who's been forced to do things against their will, and they were all fine after that? Mate, people that have been through shit have a tendency to pull away from people, hide, make their "safe space" and many stays there barely daring to leave it without very good reason.

No, and neither have you, none of us have we don't live in a world with a magic death god kidnapping people and forcing them to become Arthas 2.0. Meanwhile in WoW several charcters went through that already and don't need to run away and be called "teenager" and "omg depressed literally me tee hee" when he's almost 30.

This WAS one of the worst things to happen to him. We don't even know if the worst, we have the death of his mother, the crushing of his bones by the bell, surviving and managing a short-lived assault on Ironforge.

Come on, having your bones crushed is way worse than being controlled to steal something from Ardenwald.

Brainwashed, not really, much worse, even Anduin can do Mindcontrol. He was controlled like a puppet. He saw everything, he felt everything, he did everything, the jailer just pulled the strings. To a person, that would feel like they are the one actually doing it.

Wow! Like the Forsaken! Kind of like what Arthas did with the Scourge, and specifically with characters like Sylvanas! And how curious, Sylvanas didn't need to run away and be called a "depressed teenager just like me!!!" when she did it.

Of course, it isn't but a story has more pages than "the end" *queue sunshine*. He feels guilty, he feels he's done it because he felt good doing it. He is now from what we experience through the story, worried of being judged, and even more, worried that the light will not answer him. He then left while he felt he could be spared, trying to figure out himself.

Come on. Not even blizzard puts that much thought into their characters, specially not Anduin. And most of what you're saying is headcanon, his conversation with Sylvanas in the maw is pretty clear. "I enjoyed being evil and i'm afraid the light will not answer to me now", that's it. That's the extent of his personality, stop making headcanons about him being a super troubled person going through 9999 things in his head and feeling the need to run away because... running away is healthy or something.

It is completely unrealistic to believe that a young man would feel right to go back on the throne the month after he was the pawn of one of cosmos mighty threats, and one who felt good doing the deeds of this being.

It's been several years, not a month. A little break I can get, not "several years" in which Genn outright states he hasn't even been in contact with him and the only information they have is "the king being seen here and there".

- - - Updated - - -

He didn’t run away; he just decided to stay in the Shadowlands for a while. I don’t see anything wrong or cowardly with that. Remember that domination magic is almost impossible to break. Most of the time, a person has to die in order for it to wear off.

You haven't seen the datamined conversations? He didn't stay in the Shadowlands, Mathias Shaw outright states the king has been seen "here and there" in the surface. And he wasn't gone for "a while", it's been several years.

[Xilurm]

This thread sounds like an excuse to shit on people with depression.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I am closing this topic because the debate feels unhealthy and non-constructive.