Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[s_bushido]

The mere fact that Trump is likely going to get shitcanned on a law he turned from a misdemeanor into a felony is such delicious irony I think my political taste buds will be sated for awhile.

If that does end up happening...if this of all things is what rids us of him, that would be amazing. I'm not holding my breath that it will, but history would have a field-day with that.

[Kaleredar]

If that does end up happening...if this of all things is what rids us of him, that would be amazing. I'm not holding my breath that it will, but history would have a field-day with that.

Just like Al Capone. Dangerously insane, self-absorbed mob boss, most certainly guilty of perpetrating and orchestrating numerous heinous crimes. Caught for Tax evasion.


I'll save my yippees for when/if Trump is actually punished in any meaningful way (personally, I'd be pretty happy with "can never hold public office in these United States ever again,) but it is quite funny that this thing that Trump did most likely out of pure narcissism because he didn't want to be told what he could and couldn't do could sink him.


I'd love some sort of law that says something to the effect of "Convicted Felons cannot hold office until four years spent in good standing have eclipsed since finishing their sentence." Would mean that people that made a genuine mistake in their lives, served their time, and then kept their noses clean could still hold office... but would basically knock the political wind out of anyone that attempted to manipulate the political system and got caught.

Trump was right about the "swamp needing to be cleaned," but he was wrong about who exactly that swamp comprised of, and that it turns out he was the swampiest of all of them. It's become quite apparent that the American political system relies chiefly on things like "decorum," "morality," and many things that political leaders are expected to abide by because they supposedly respect the office. But those things mean nothing to someone like Trump, and so do not bind him. That's why we need laws that do that. Finely hones, targeted ones, drafted specifically to crater people like Trump and his lackeys.

[Breccia]

Despite claims, there's no 'magic wand' for a president to declassify documents

Expert after expert keeps saying the same thing.

For most government employees who seek to have information declassified, their requests must go through a rigorous review process that can span the entire U.S. intelligence community, in order to ensure that sources, methods and other national security interests are protected. "[But] there's no formal process that a president is required to follow when declassifying information," Brian Greer, a former CIA attorney who specialized in classification issues, told ABC News.

Nevertheless, Greer noted, "there has to be evidence that a declassification order occurred." And in Trump's case, "the Trump team has yet to produce any credible evidence," he said.

This expert is saying, of all the experts I've seen so far, the minimum amount that has to be done...and Trump didn't do it.

And everyone involved knows it.

FBI interviewed top Trump White House lawyers in Mar-a-Lago document inquiry

Two top lawyers in Donald Trump’s White House have been interviewed by the FBI in relation to the ongoing investigation into the storage of classified documents at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida, a person familiar with the matter said Tuesday.

Pat Cipollone and Patrick Philbin, who served as White House counsel and Deputy White House counsel, respectively, have spoken with the FBI. Cipollone in July also testified in front of the House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol.

The two attorneys are the highest-ranking Trump administration officials known to have been interviewed so far in the federal probe which took a dramatic turn last week when the FBI searched Trump’s Mar-a-Lago property.

We know who Cipollone is. His name is all over the Jan 6th insurrection. Philbin is less well-known, but, both of these lawyers were basically Trump's men handling these classified documents. Philbin had testified in the spring, and the FBI still came to Trump's house. As their names were on the short list, the National Archives very likely reached out to them first. Clearly, they didn't like what they heard.

But it's not like Trump's mishandling of documents was common knowledge, was it?

Bolton tells Reuters that, yes, it was. He called out that the White House dining room had "piles" of them, most notably the famous love letters from Kim.

Bolton also pointed out that Trump loved showing these documents to people, classified or otherwise.

And he called Trump a liar for his claim of a "standing order".

I was never briefed on any such order, procedure, policy when I came in. If he were to say something like that, you would have to memorialize that, so that people would know it existed.

When somebody begins to concoct lies like this, it shows a real level of desperation.

"Surely these are just disgruntled employees lying about Trump!"

Trump has amassed a giant, fat bloated body. He also has acquired a large number of people he hired that are saying, in public, Trump is a lying loser criminal. At some point, the sheer number of people Trump willingly invited into his inner circle saying Trump screwed up will convince any reasonable person. Failing that, they'll take the stand (which Trump won't) and settle the issue with the only 12 people that matter.

- - - First Dated - - -

Few more things:

1) GA Gov Kemp filed a motion to block the subpoena to testify about, yes, the Trump extortion attempt and fake electors. Odd that he'd wait this long...maybe he thought Giuliani (etc.) wouldn't make it to trial? I think he's in trouble. Kemp probably also thinks he's in trouble, but he's claiming in the filing that this is being done now while he's running for office.

Aww. A Trump supporter who doesn't like it when someone messes with the election. The time to stand up for that was two years ago.

2) I forgot to mention, from that same Bolton interview, Bolton said there did not appear to be a partisan motive to the FBI.

3) Sad sack of human refuse Alex Jones formally backs DeSantis.

[Edge-]

3) Sad sack of human refuse Alex Jones formally backs DeSantis.

I hope he at least realizes that Ron won't be dumb enough to come on his show like Trump. He's not gonna get his new senpai to notice him the way his old senpai did.

[Tentim]

I hope he at least realizes that Ron won't be dumb enough to come on his show like Trump. He's not gonna get his new senpai to notice him the way his old senpai did.

Wait is Ron Paul planning to run?!?

[P for Pancetta]

An interesting fact regarding the declassification of nuclear weapon related documentation is that the president can't declassify that himself. It requires a process.

[gondrin]

Just like Al Capone. Dangerously insane, self-absorbed mob boss, most certainly guilty of perpetrating and orchestrating numerous heinous crimes. Caught for Tax evasion.


I'll save my yippees for when/if Trump is actually punished in any meaningful way (personally, I'd be pretty happy with "can never hold public office in these United States ever again,) but it is quite funny that this thing that Trump did most likely out of pure narcissism because he didn't want to be told what he could and couldn't do could sink him.


I'd love some sort of law that says something to the effect of "Convicted Felons cannot hold office until four years spent in good standing have eclipsed since finishing their sentence." Would mean that people that made a genuine mistake in their lives, served their time, and then kept their noses clean could still hold office... but would basically knock the political wind out of anyone that attempted to manipulate the political system and got caught.

Trump was right about the "swamp needing to be cleaned," but he was wrong about who exactly that swamp comprised of, and that it turns out he was the swampiest of all of them. It's become quite apparent that the American political system relies chiefly on things like "decorum," "morality," and many things that political leaders are expected to abide by because they supposedly respect the office. But those things mean nothing to someone like Trump, and so do not bind him. That's why we need laws that do that. Finely hones, targeted ones, drafted specifically to crater people like Trump and his lackeys.

Quite a few people get caught for far worse crimes after they get pulled over for a minor thing like a taillight being out, slightly speeding or expired tags.

[Breccia]

An interesting fact regarding the declassification of nuclear weapon related documentation is that the president can't declassify that himself. It requires a process.

This is both true and relevant, as we've discussed before. Even if Trump had a standing order -- he didn't -- it doesn't work on everything. Nuclear secrets is the one we're talking about the most, but there are others.

The case of Scooter Libby stands out. Granted, it's not a perfect parallel -- there's never been a criminal in the WH as much as Trump was -- but he was tried and convicted of handing out classified intel he wasn't supposed to, even with Oval Office consent. In addition to nuclear secrets, handing out the names of US agents in the field is something else the President can't simply order on whim. The Libby case is sometimes called "the first time in memory that the question of unilateral presidential declassifications arose"

Libby wasn't convicted of being a spy. He was, however, convicted of lying to the FBI, lying on the stand, and obstruction of justice. Guess what else Trump faces?

So, again, there is no "magic wand". Not only is Trump's declaration of a "standing order" questionable at best, considering what the FBI found, it might be meaningless even if true.

[Flarelaine]

3) Sad sack of human refuse Alex Jones formally backs DeSantis.

On the face, he's giving support to DeSantis.

In truth, he's begging for some. Probably hoping for a pardon in early 2025.

[Breccia]

On the face, he's giving support to DeSantis.

In truth, he's begging for some. Probably hoping for a pardon in early 2025.

Huh. What has Jones done, that would lead to a criminal, federal conviction, one might ask?

[Flarelaine]

Huh. What has Jones done, that would lead to a criminal, federal conviction, one might ask?

Nothing off the top of my head, but Jones might be able to think of something. The Jan 6 commission subpoenaed his phone records, didn't they?

[Breccia]

The Jan 6 commission subpoenaed his phone records, didn't they?

They did, but probably didn't need to. The Texas plaintiffs surely would have handed them over for a "thank you".

[Flarelaine]

They did, but probably didn't need to. The Texas plaintiffs surely would have handed them over for a "thank you".

Still, what if they find it was a conspiracy and Jones had a part?

[Breccia]

Still, what if they find it was a conspiracy and Jones had a part?

We already know Alex Jones helped organize the rally that would eventually become the murderous insurrection. It's only a question of "why".

[Poopymonster]

Huh. What has Jones done, that would lead to a criminal, federal conviction, one might ask?

Bankruptcy fraud.

[gondrin]

Weisselberg pleads guilty. Falls on the sword for The Angry Orange. I hope before he dies in prison that he gives up the goods on said Orange.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news...2bd2cdea75888b

Allen Weisselberg—Longtime Trump Organization CFO—Pleads Guilty In Tax Scheme

Allen Weisselberg, a longtime Trump Organization CFO, pleaded guilty to 15 criminal tax fraud charges on Thursday—admitting to conspiring in a scheme to avoid paying taxes on corporate benefits—marking a blow to the former president’s family business as it prepares for trial on related charges in October.

Weisselberg, who was indicted on tax fraud charges last summer, is charged with grand larceny and avoiding tax payments on more than $1.7 million in corporate benefits from the Trump Organization over the 16-year scheme, including car payments, school tuition and rent.

Under the plea deal, Weisselberg, who was facing up to 15 years behind bars for grand larceny under New York state law, now faces five months in prison, and is likely to serve as little as 100 days for good behavior, the New York Times reported (the grand larceny charge carries no mandatory minimum under state law).

Donald Trump is not charged in the criminal investigation or accused of any wrongdoing.

Weisselberg, who previously pleaded not guilty, also agreed in the plea deal to testify on his role in the corporate benefits scheme at trial in October—the first case out of a two-year investigation into the former president’s business—but refused to implicate Trump or his family, taking jail time rather than calling out the family he’s worked with for nearly 50 years and potentially delivering a blow to prosecutors who saw Weisselberg as their key cooperator into the Trump Organization’s business practices.

Weisselberg, 75, got his start with the Trump family working for the former president’s father, Fred Trump, in 1973. He was charged, along with the company, with tax fraud, by the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office last summer, one year into the civil investigation into Weisselberg and the Trump Organization. Trump and Weisselberg have called the investigation “politically motivated,” and in February requested a judge dismiss the criminal charges against them. Their request was denied. In July, Weisselberg and his lawyer surrendered to New York authorities at a courthouse in Manhattan, the New York Times reported.

[Kathandira]

When are we ever going to see Trump in front of a judge on live TV?

[solinari6]

Weisselberg pleads guilty. Falls on the sword for The Angry Orange. I hope before he dies in prison that he gives up the goods on said Orange.

It's doubtful he'll die there, but he will be staying at Riker's Island, so you never know!

now faces five months in prison, and is likely to serve as little as 100 days for good behavior

[Breccia]

Weisselberg pleads guilty.

Weaselberg has a real problem coming his way -- the trial of Trump Org itself. As you pointed out, at time of writing, Weaselberg is due to testify again, can't change his testimony because perjury, and therefore, will leave himself few choices. He's going to have to say one of two things:
1) Everyone was in on the tax fraud, except Trump, or
2) I was the one in charge. Which his current plea deal suggests he can't do. You don't offer a plea deal to the head of the snake.

I suspect strongly that NYState knows what we all know: nothing happened at Trump Org without Trump's direct say-so. Weaselberg clearly hasn't said that...yet. If Weaselberg turns on the other Trump Org execs, one or all of them will probably use that in their defense. Weaelberg could be outnumbered, and juries don't like it when everyone's story matches, except one. On the other hand, if Weaselberg says he was the ringleader, that's an admission of guilty for Trump Org, and the company won't get a plea deal. They'll get burned to the ground.

[Gorsameth]

What I would love to know, but we may never really heard of, is why there even is a plea deal if it doesn't implicate Trump.
If he wants to throw himself on a sword for Trump then give him the full sword, not a slap that effectively rewards him for not turning.
Surely that sends the entirely wrong message.