Riot Games is officialy working on an MMO.

[Witchblade77]

"It is not a retcon, it is a retcon!" I guess i must thank you for agreeing with me?

You can affirm it is more cohesive but lol is still a mish mosh of random stuff. Now just even blander and more generic, quite a feat.

that's just like, your opinion man and retcon and rewrite are not the same thing. the difference is the scope. they didn't just change a few aspects of backgrounds here and there, they changed the whole premise. and the irony is - bland and generic is exactly what the "lore" pre 2014 USED to be.

[Lord Kragan]

bland and generic is exactly what the "lore" pre 2014 USED to be.

Thank god that is what I said, didn't I?

Like I said, the new stuff is blander and more generic.

[Edge-]

raid direction.

Raiding is not the only social/community activity people engage in in MMO's.

[Yriel]

Raiding is not the only social/community activity people engage in in MMO's.

In GCs eyes it probably is. Remember the "Wow, dungeons are hard" thing? GC will never see short 15-30 min content with random groups as "social/community".

[Edge-]

In GCs eyes it probably is. Remember the "Wow, dungeons are hard" thing? GC will never see short 15-30 min content with random groups as "social/community".

I'm still not making the connection here. Do you think GC hasn't changed at all in the decade+ he left Blizzard/WoW? Do you think he's dictating all direction and not working with leads and teams who are all offering ideas etc.?

You're making some massive jumps to conclusions about a game that's not officially announced yet based off a few intentionally vague tweets.

[VinceVega]

In GCs eyes it probably is. Remember the "Wow, dungeons are hard" thing? GC will never see short 15-30 min content with random groups as "social/community".

Would he be wrong though? What exactly is social about matchmaking with 4 random people you will never meet again into a 15 minute dungeon where almost definetly noone will say anything except maybe a "hello" or "hi" and if you are really lucky a "bye" at the end.

Raiding and RP are basically the big social parts of MMOs because you cannot really do it alone and it is difficult with people you don't talk to or know.
PvP also in a way because sometimes you find people you match well with and keep playing together. Happend to me a few times but never in a random dungeon.
(i know personal experiences don't matter but still^^)
Doesn't mean single player stuff should not exist like professions (not the trading part) and open world content which is mostly doable alone. But it should not be the focus.
True single player games do the stuff that does not need to be social way better than any MMO ever could. No need for an MMO to bend over backwards to fill a allready filled niche they could never satisfy in the first place.

[VMSmith]

Raiding and RP are basically the big social parts of MMOs because you cannot really do it alone and it is difficult with people you don't talk to or know.

Raiding has always been the least social aspect of games, IMO. It actively makes me hate people and not want to spend another moment around them. At least with queued content, I can just leave with no obligation if it becomes too intolerable and know that I will be quickly replaced so it's no issue for anyone involved. Raiding is the equivalent of a teacher assigning you and three other classmates to a group project.

The most social parts of MMOs I've played have been RP (which you mentioned) and mercantile, i.e. crafting, procuring, and selling various items of interest. I think back to art auctions held by players in SWG and what a fantastic opportunity they were to mingle with the community over a shared interest in the games art, true social events.

[Yriel]

I'm still not making the connection here. Do you think GC hasn't changed at all in the decade+ he left Blizzard/WoW? Do you think he's dictating all direction and not working with leads and teams who are all offering ideas etc.?

You're making some massive jumps to conclusions about a game that's not officially announced yet based off a few intentionally vague tweets.

No i don't think his basic views changed. Why would they? We are seeing the same ideas in all WoWs desgin staff through the years and it is still very much present today probably even stronger than ever before.
And, i mean, the tweet is pretty explicit in that regard, too. Someone asked about a groupfinder and he advises everyone who wants one to play GoW or Persona instead.

Would he be wrong though? What exactly is social about matchmaking with 4 random people you will never meet again into a 15 minute dungeon where almost definetly noone will say anything except maybe a "hello" or "hi" and if you are really lucky a "bye" at the end.

I agree, the person i quoted just said they were looking forward to such a game (as do i) but with GC at the helm the Riot MMO will most likely not be it.

And to be honest, i don't see the big part about "social gaming" in the first place. I have friends and a family in RL´, i don't really need online friends. If i find some ok but i'm not looking for them. And to be honest, i was for almost 15 years in a friends and family WoW guild, we had multiple RL meetings and all that. And in the end, when someone stopped playing from one day to the next no one really cared. Yeah, "friendship"...

In the end, the whole "social" schtick is just a marketing thing because they know people tend to continue playing games they don't like anymore because they have "social" resposibilities in raids and whatever and people don't want to leave they online "friends" because of that. It's all about money in the end.

[Linkedblade]

Raiding is not the only social/community activity people engage in in MMO's.

Genuinely curious: besides pve and pvp, what activities there are in wow. All I can think of is Trial of Style or RP.

[Edge-]

No i don't think his basic views changed. Why would they?

Are you the exact same person you were 10 years ago?

We are seeing the same ideas in all WoWs desgin staff through the years and it is still very much present today probably even stronger than ever before.

What does WoW's ongoing design after his departure have to do with him? IIRC the raid-focus right now is because the current director used to be the raid lead, no? It's not like GC has spent the past 7 years working on a very different kind of game that gave him a different set of experiences or anything.

And, i mean, the tweet is pretty explicit in that regard, too. Someone asked about a groupfinder and he advises everyone who wants one to play GoW or Persona instead.

Yes...and?



Note he's admitting this is intentionally vague and I'm not sure how you're connecting it to

GC will never see short 15-30 min content with random groups as "social/community".

[oplawlz]

Would he be wrong though? What exactly is social about matchmaking with 4 random people you will never meet again into a 15 minute dungeon where almost definetly noone will say anything except maybe a "hello" or "hi" and if you are really lucky a "bye" at the end.

you forgot about raging at the tank or healer because there is no incentive to be civil

[Edge-]

Genuinely curious: besides pve and pvp, what activities there are in wow. All I can think of is Trial of Style or RP.

I haven't played since like, MoP (and only briefly) so I haven't the foggiest clue right now. But why is WoW the sole point of comparison?

[Katchii]

Genuinely curious: besides pve and pvp, what activities there are in wow. All I can think of is Trial of Style or RP.

PvE and PvP are extremely broad categories though. Just because something is PvE doesn't mean it's the same as other PvE stuff. Same with PvP.

Questing, Dungeons, Scenarios, Raids, most daily quests and simply walking around the world are all PvE activities.

PvP can be done in pretty much ANY fashion so long as the end result is players fighting other players. Arena, Battlegrounds (of which there are several types with different objectives that flavor the experience differently), or again just walking through the world with PvP activated because that can affect how you interact or don't interact with the world (avoiding certain areas for fear of opposition or alternatively purposely going someone BECAUSE of opposition).

But to answer your direct question...not much. Trial of Style and RP for sure, but I'd also throw in Darkmoon Faire because there's some aspects of it that don't really fall into another category.

[Somic]

No i don't think his basic views changed. Why would they? We are seeing the same ideas in all WoWs desgin staff through the years and it is still very much present today probably even stronger than ever before.
And, i mean, the tweet is pretty explicit in that regard, too. Someone asked about a groupfinder and he advises everyone who wants one to play GoW or Persona instead.



I agree, the person i quoted just said they were looking forward to such a game (as do i) but with GC at the helm the Riot MMO will most likely not be it.

And to be honest, i don't see the big part about "social gaming" in the first place. I have friends and a family in RL´, i don't really need online friends. If i find some ok but i'm not looking for them. And to be honest, i was for almost 15 years in a friends and family WoW guild, we had multiple RL meetings and all that. And in the end, when someone stopped playing from one day to the next no one really cared. Yeah, "friendship"...

In the end, the whole "social" schtick is just a marketing thing because they know people tend to continue playing games they don't like anymore because they have "social" resposibilities in raids and whatever and people don't want to leave they online "friends" because of that. It's all about money in the end.

Ok I’m sorry but are you seriously asking why someone’s views would change after over a decade of brand new experiences? Has your views as a player stayed the exact same for over a decade without changing one bit? Let alone being someone who works on video games every single day of your life, I would say your basic views on video game design would change drastically.

- - - Updated - - -

Genuinely curious: besides pve and pvp, what activities there are in wow. All I can think of is Trial of Style or RP.

He said RAIDING isn’t the only activity. How did you go from him saying raiding > to you including all of pve and all of pvp?

[JacobusRex]

I'm interested, even a little excited to see what this is, but I don't hold my breath anymore since it's all about copious microtransactions, no-accountability subscriptions or worst of all; a combination of those two. Not the least of which all I see is arguing and negativity about it here and elsewhere over the stupid shit like retcons and rewrites, casual vs try-hard, etc etc. The only negativity I would see as worth my time is towards MTX. If they don't have MTX as they shouldn't, but a subscription, at least we can hold them to it and "work is hard" is no excuse. If they do have MTX as I'm sure they will, and it's "free to play" it'll be a hollow, uninspired costume contest with gameplay mechanics. If it has a subscription AND MTX, it'll be just like WoW and a vast majority of players will NOT enjoy it after the honeymoon phase.

The problem is, can Greg Street and his team create a game the few intelligent players who know better will want to play because it's all there for a monthly sub fee and that keeps the game going on more than drip-feed? No, because Riot is garbage. So really it comes down to is the gameplay fun enough to keep me playing? That remains to be seen. The background, the mythos, ethos and pathos of the game matter but are all malleable. The gameplay is far less malleable because what is fun for most people is the right pacing, the right complexity and the right flair so that what you do is meaningful, rewarding and engaging.

Apparently according to a YT video the game's environment and future expansion zones are all but done. It's the gameplay and story that they're going to be working on for a while more. That's good, because it might have a shot at being half-way worth the ridiculous mtx and/or sub fee that comes with it.

[Edge-]

Apparently according to a YT video the game's environment and future expansion zones are all but done. It's the gameplay and story that they're going to be working on for a while more. That's good, because it might have a shot at being half-way worth the ridiculous mtx and/or sub fee that comes with it.

X to doubt bigtime given that I don't even believe the game is in full production yet, much less content/feature-complete with pre-production on expansions. The game isn't even officially announced, so whatever the source on this claim is seems very, very suspect.

[JacobusRex]

X to doubt bigtime given that I don't even believe the game is in full production yet, much less content/feature-complete with pre-production on expansions. The game isn't even officially announced, so whatever the source on this claim is seems very, very suspect.

If I may: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ypIpTu3ung 6-8 years ahead maybe it'll be ready, but apparently it might be complete in the lands and such.

[Linkedblade]

I haven't played since like, MoP (and only briefly) so I haven't the foggiest clue right now. But why is WoW the sole point of comparison?

There was supposed to be the word "social" before "activities," oops.

Well, because wow is the only game i have played that's MMO, except dipping my toes in GW2 and FFXIV.

A game like RuneScape has the Burthorpe games room, which was mini-games but your toon was physical in a room and playing against other humans.

[Edge-]

If I may: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ypIpTu3ung 6-8 years ahead maybe it'll be ready, but apparently it might be complete in the lands and such.

He's talking about conceptually: The world of "Runetera" has already been conceptually created. The map, the factions, the zones, key characters etc. all exist by virtue of Riot building it as they built LoL, and then burning it down to build a more coherent and fleshed out world some years back.

I'm skipping through a bit because I don't know this cat and he's annoying, but that's what he's talking about a few minutes in while showing 3D models he made.

He's not talking about, at least so far, how far along creation of the world and that content is. Though I guess he thinks he knows what kinds of quests/side quests will be in the unannounced MMO already and isn't just speculating, which is what he's actually doing?

It seems like more of a "Here's a deep dive into the lore of the Runetera world Riot built and how that may be fleshed out in the MMO, since they're not needing to create all these locations and characters and factions from scratch like a brand-new MMO not based off an existing property would be."

[JacobusRex]

It came off as "the world (in-game) is done". *shrug* maybe not. I'd like to think that he's right and I won't be 40 years old when it first comes out... Also, why is he annoying? I think he's kind of funny, if a bit try-to-be funny... haha