[TV] She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (*SPOILERS*)

[Witchblade77]

Why are people acting like Tatiana Maslany is some uggo?

cause beauty standards for women in Hollywood are different from those for men. and before someone says something about beefcakes and steroids, that's not for women, that's mostly for male power fantasies.

some dudes don't even realize how much thirst there is for characters like Phil Coulson, Bruce Banner (without the abs and all) and there there is Picard (aka Patrick Steward), the ultimate thirst trap. Chris Pratt was far more popular with women when he was a pudgy cheerful himbo, than when he beefed up and started acting more macho/playing more macho characters.

its not that women are never, EVER attracted to muscle, but rather standards of physical attractiveness for men/male characters are nowhere NEAR as ridiculous as those for women. even Magic Mike couldn't just coast on sexy dancing alone, they had to add some vulnerability and personality to their beefcake for more women to like them.

so yeah, the main reason these actors are beefing up is to present a power fantasy for dudes to project themselves onto, any sort of attractiveness to female audience is a secondary concern.


P.S. Hollywood creates expectations of beauty that are quite literally unrealistic naturaly. I won't claim all because I don't have acess to medical histories etc - but vast VAST majority of actresses and almost as many actors - had work done. multiple surgeries and all that jazz.

[Raisei]

And literally in the scene, Bruce's position on training her is proven correct as she turns into She-hulk without intending too. And she both thanks and respects Bruce for helping her train to control her Hulkself.

She is quite clearly shown to master every aspect of being a Hulk, including the controlled transformation in a matter of days at most, while disregarding Bruce's decades of experience every step of the way. There is no "training", she is just showing off. Bruce is outspokenly jealous how easy it all comes to her.

Then the guy that has been so deeply depressed by his condition that he attempted suicide at least once (he says so in Avengers 1), had to listen to her moaning about how hard her life as an attractive succeful woman is. It is a disgusting tone-deaf scene. Clearly made to pander to extremist feminist viewers that just like to see a woman being better then a man, no matter how little sense it makes.

Her biggest trauma in this episode was ripping her favourite suit by transforming. It is very difficult to feel anything for her when the stakes are sooooooooo low.

And before some fool again calls me misogynistic for pointing this flaw out, I am not saying that Jennifer is bad, the actress is doing a fine job. But the writing team really needs to fucking think about what words they put in her mouth.

[SavoirFaire]

Why are people acting like Tatiana Maslany is some uggo?

That wasn’t the laugh line to me. The funny part was people saying replace her with Gal Gadot.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

cause beauty standards for women in Hollywood are different from those for men.

I get that for sure but... even by those superficial standards...Tatiana Maslany is an attractive woman. Maybe she doesn't have her posters plastered in every teenage boy's bedroom...but still.

[Raisei]

Why are people acting like Tatiana Maslany is some uggo?

Beats me. She is looking completely fine in both forms. Maybe a bit too much muscle tone in the green form, but that is just my personal taste, it fits the character. She is anything but ugly.

But then, some people also said that the new RE3 Remake Jill was looking ugly and I could not for the life of me see why.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

That wasn’t the laugh line to me. The funny part was people saying replace her with Gal Gadot.

Yeah, that's also a conundrum.

[Witchblade77]

I get that for sure but... even by those superficial standards...Tatiana Maslany is an attractive woman. Maybe she doesn't have her posters plastered in every teenage boy's bedroom...but still.

not arguing that. but by those same standards putting glasses and overalls on Rachel Lee Cook or getting Ann Hathaway's and Emma Watson's hair a bit frizzy, somehow make them unattractive enough to call for a makeover, so... and that's just off the top of my head.

[Endus]

She is quite clearly shown to master every aspect of being a Hulk, including the controlled transformation in a matter of days at most, while disregarding Bruce's decades of experience every step of the way. There is no "training", she is just showing off. Bruce is outspokenly jealous how easy it all comes to her.

The point being made there isn't that Walters is preternaturally gifted. She doesn't see why it's hard. Because she doesn't have the trauma Banner does to overcome.

It isn't about female empowerment and it is in no way saying she's "better" than Bruce. It's pointing out how much work Bruce had to do just to be somewhat mentally healthy. That has nothing to do him with being a man, and the show never suggested or implied that. You're making shit up to push a pretty frickin' loathsome agenda.

Then the guy that has been so deeply depressed by his condition that he attempted suicide at least once (he says so in Avengers 1), had to listen to her moaning about how hard her life as an attractive succeful woman is. It is a disgusting tone-deaf scene.

Literally not what happened in that scene. You're misrepresenting it blatantly.

Clearly made to pander to extremist feminist viewers that just like to see a woman being better then a man, no matter how little sense it makes.

This is your agenda coming, out, being upset that a female character is presented in any way equal to a male character. She is never presented as "better".

Her biggest trauma in this episode was ripping her favourite suit by transforming. It is very difficult to feel anything for her when the stakes are sooooooooo low.

You're right. There weren't any real stakes in the literal explanatory prologue before the actual events of the show kicked off.

That's standard for prologues, dude.

And before some fool again calls me misogynistic for pointing this flaw out, I am not saying that Jennifer is bad, the actress is doing a fine job. But the writing team really needs to fucking think about what words they put in her mouth.

Why? Because she's a strong female character and that makes you upset? Because that's all you've really said, so far.

[Rtrain]

The point being made there isn't that Walters is preternaturally gifted. She doesn't see why it's hard. Because she doesn't have the trauma Banner does to overcome.

It isn't about female empowerment and it is in no way saying she's "better" than Bruce. It's pointing out how much work Bruce had to do just to be somewhat mentally healthy. That has nothing to do him with being a man, and the show never suggested or implied that. You're making shit up to push a pretty frickin' loathsome agenda.



Literally not what happened in that scene. You're misrepresenting it blatantly.



This is your agenda coming, out, being upset that a female character is presented in any way equal to a male character. She is never presented as "better".



You're right. There weren't any real stakes in the literal explanatory prologue before the actual events of the show kicked off.

That's standard for prologues, dude.



Why? Because she's a strong female character and that makes you upset? Because that's all you've really said, so far.

The show very clearly(and accurately) states she’s better at controlling her anger because she’s had to her entire life, because she is a woman. Which I mean, true.

I think the show does a pretty good job at presenting a strong female lead. My biggest problem though is just not leaving any room for the character to grow. The most interesting marvel characters are always the one with huge character flaws(iron man, Wanda, loki) so it’d be nice to give her something to grow from in the first episode.

[craigw]

show is okay. 5/10. there are way better marvel series/movies than this one. maybe im just getting burned out on them. just hasnt kept my interest like wandavision and moonknight.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Then the guy that has been so deeply depressed by his condition that he attempted suicide at least once (he says so in Avengers 1), had to listen to her moaning about how hard her life as an attractive succeful woman is. It is a disgusting tone-deaf scene. Clearly made to pander to extremist feminist viewers that just like to see a woman being better then a man, no matter how little sense it makes.

I think you missed the point of that. The point was that, before he became the Hulk, he never had to deal with his anger...therefore he never learned how to control it.

The secret to controlling the Hulk is not by trying to deny and suppress anger...but to control it. Jennifer has always had to control her anger... so controlling the transformation is easier for her... just like Bruce said in the Avengers "that's my secret...I'm always angry". Jen already learned that lesson.

Also, she doesn't have Disassociative Identity Disorder. She doesn't have "the other guy" in her head. She doesn't have to wake up in strange places with no memory of what she might have done or who she might have hurt. That's the reason Bruce tried to off himself.

[Al Gorefiend]

Then the guy that has been so deeply depressed by his condition that he attempted suicide at least once (he says so in Avengers 1), had to listen to her moaning about how hard her life as an attractive succeful woman is. It is a disgusting tone-deaf scene. Clearly made to pander to extremist feminist viewers that just like to see a woman being better then a man, no matter how little sense it makes.

Are you unaware, that Bruce Banner was a deeply depressed, loner scientist BEFORE becoming a giant monster everyone was afraid of? She-Hulk is appearing in a new world of superheroes. Bruce Banner's transformation happened before Tony Stark who was basically the biggest celebrity in America made superheroes cool. That is why he tried killing himself.

He wasn't some super happy normal guy until a freak accident made him who he was. Dude is clearly uncomfortable talking around people, went AWOL after AoU because he realized through Nat he can never have a romantic life, and then came the whole blip thing which probably messed him up.

Jen Walters is nothing like him. She is optimistic and goofy and an overachiever.

[Darththeo]

She is quite clearly shown to master every aspect of being a Hulk, including the controlled transformation in a matter of days at most, while disregarding Bruce's decades of experience every step of the way. There is no "training", she is just showing off. Bruce is outspokenly jealous how easy it all comes to her.

Nothing in that scene shows she mastered anything, only that she has better control than Bruce did. She isn't shown to be stronger or actually more adept. And she is seeing Bruce do things with the powers, something I don't know if you understand, Bruce had to learn on his own. And you are ignoring that we know a period of time passed between her arriving there and leaving. We don't fully know, but we know there were at least 3 days, but likely far more.

We are talking about a universe where Tony Stark built a metal suit in a cave in an undisclosed period of time. That Rogers went to basic training in an undisclosed period of time. There are a lot of events that characters went through where we have no idea how long it took in the MCU. The story was specifically kept brief and we are told this before we even get it.

It is commonplace not to go into overly detailed trainings in fictional stories. Hence training montages in some movies. Do you really want details on every step of training?

Then the guy that has been so deeply depressed by his condition that he attempted suicide at least once (he says so in Avengers 1), had to listen to her moaning about how hard her life as an attractive succeful woman is. It is a disgusting tone-deaf scene. Clearly made to pander to extremist feminist viewers that just like to see a woman being better then a man, no matter how little sense it makes.

That scene is not her saying anything of the sort. She is saying that she has experience controlling her anger before she turned and she has had more experience than Bruce.

Her biggest trauma in this episode was ripping her favourite suit by transforming. It is very difficult to feel anything for her when the stakes are sooooooooo low.

The scene isn't comparing trauma at all. Bruce trauma leads to the fear response while Jen was literally talking about the anger response. Hulk's transformation can be triggered by any emotion, but most easily by anger or fear. Bruce fears what he could do as the Hulk, Bruce fears what could happen if someone could make another Hulk. Never does Jen compare trauma, it does not happen.

She is stating because behavior towards her by others, she has had to control her anger before. So she is familiar with controlling her anger.

And before some fool again calls me misogynistic for pointing this flaw out, I am not saying that Jennifer is bad, the actress is doing a fine job. But the writing team really needs to fucking think about what words they put in her mouth.

A flaw that doesn't actually exist in the scene and you are reading into it?

[Xath]

cause beauty standards for women in Hollywood are different from those for men. and before someone says something about beefcakes and steroids, that's not for women, that's mostly for male power fantasies.

some dudes don't even realize how much thirst there is for characters like Phil Coulson, Bruce Banner (without the abs and all) and there there is Picard (aka Patrick Steward), the ultimate thirst trap. Chris Pratt was far more popular with women when he was a pudgy cheerful himbo, than when he beefed up and started acting more macho/playing more macho characters.

its not that women are never, EVER attracted to muscle, but rather standards of physical attractiveness for men/male characters are nowhere NEAR as ridiculous as those for women. even Magic Mike couldn't just coast on sexy dancing alone, they had to add some vulnerability and personality to their beefcake for more women to like them.

so yeah, the main reason these actors are beefing up is to present a power fantasy for dudes to project themselves onto, any sort of attractiveness to female audience is a secondary concern.


P.S. Hollywood creates expectations of beauty that are quite literally unrealistic naturaly. I won't claim all because I don't have acess to medical histories etc - but vast VAST majority of actresses and almost as many actors - had work done. multiple surgeries and all that jazz.

Uhm you are not representative of really anyone I have ever met. Hell half the girls I knew in college had fight club on DVD I'll give you a hint it wasn't for the anarchy it was for the how the fuck is Pitt that damn hot scenes. Take your pick of the Chris's they aren't getting cast to bring in the straight dudes.

[Darththeo]

Uhm you are not representative of really anyone I have ever met. Hell half the girls I knew in college had fight club on DVD I'll give you a hint it wasn't for the anarchy it was for the how the fuck is Pitt that damn hot scenes. Take your pick of the Chris's they aren't getting cast to bring in the straight dudes.

How did you misunderstand what they said that badly?

[Witchblade77]

Uhm you are not representative of really anyone I have ever met. Hell half the girls I knew in college had fight club on DVD I'll give you a hint it wasn't for the anarchy it was for the how the fuck is Pitt that damn hot scenes. Take your pick of the Chris's they aren't getting cast to bring in the straight dudes.

right and Edward Norton's character had absolutely nothing to do with it. nope. nothing at all. or a number of other things. and I'm guessing I'm representative of the other half of girls you know in college. because contrary to your assumption before that I have chosen to ignore at the time - I've gone to college, more then one campus (ah the joy of transferring credits only to have to retake the same class you already took, solely because in your new school its 4 credits instead of 3 >_<, but I digress ) you don't know women nearly as well as you think you do.

and trust me, those Chris's are not going through grueling workouts, steroid cycles and 3 days of dehydrating themselves before a shirtless shoots to be attractive to women.

[Biomega]

and trust me, those Chris's are not going through grueling workouts, steroid cycles and 3 days of dehydrating themselves before a shirtless shoots to be attractive to women.

It's the first lesson the swole gym rats learn - all the compliments you get on your massive pecs are from other dudes. "Nice gainz bro!", thanks, and now what

The world is very different for women, and it's hard to truly appreciate the scope of it if you're a guy.

Seems this show is doing okay with that kind of narrative so far, let's see where it goes.

[Icelin]

I don't think they are sincere and do not have good intentions.

Why a show on She-Hulk? Why a show on Ms. Marvel? Why a show or movie on Batgirl? Why not Catwoman? It would've had a much better chance at succeeding. I heard a Harley Quinn show might be starting up. That has the potential to be more popular. (if it is true) Strange choices were made. Why not a show featuring Rogue with Gambit? Or Emma Frost? Jean etc? (I know these characters all from same franchise but they did make a Ms. Marvel show) They act like they don't know what the audience is more likely to be receptive to. What about that Valkyrie girl from Thor Ragnarok? They knew she was popular so they brought it back for various movies... so they know. I don't care to hear about the planned flops or when a show with interesting female characters end up getting desecrated to garbage. (Tyrande for example with WoW. Don't even wish to see this character anymore either.) Witcher with Yennefer, Triss and Ciri.

This is how I feel about Dragonflight btw. I get an interesting female character and great topic of dragons.. that I have enjoyed and it gets cut short. Don't forget.. Abusive narrative of SLs funded. Teamwork narrative with Dragonflight not funded. They are not sincere and do not have good intentions and rather people want to actually believe it or not, no one is escaping abuse. No one.

[Rocksteady 87]

I don't think that is what happened. Does this Smart Hulk really completely feel like Bruce Banner? Not really. He wasn't completely humorless as Banner, but the slapstick is a new trait. It looks childish. And who had the mind of a child? The Hulk.

I think what he describes as "putting the brain and brawn together" was more a merging of the two personalities, which allowed his body to reach a balanced existence where he can use the best of both worlds. He has all the brain power of Bruce, but also a good part of the childishness of Hulk. So he did not kill or surpress the personality, he just accepted it as a part of himself.

No.

Bruce/Smart Hulk clearly sees Hulk as a completely different persona. He even admits to it in this episode. "One time I was stuck as the Other Guy for over two years," which he says while Smart Hulk. He clearly views himself as Bruce while transformed. The only aspect of Hulk that he has, besides lesser physical traits, are heightened emotions and more confidence. None of Hulk's actual personality is there; Bruce just keeps saying it's an amalgamation to rationalize what he's doing to himself.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think they are sincere and do not have good intentions.

Why a show on She-Hulk? Why a show on Ms. Marvel? Why a show or movie on Batgirl? Why not Catwoman? It would've had a much better chance at succeeding. I heard a Harley Quinn show might be starting up. That has the potential to be more popular. (if it is true) Strange choices were made. Why not a show featuring Rogue with Gambit? Or Emma Frost? Jean etc? (I know these characters all from same franchise but they did make a Ms. Marvel show) They act like they don't know what the audience is more likely to be receptive to. What about that Valkyrie girl from Thor Ragnarok? They knew she was popular so they brought it back for various movies... so they know. I don't care to hear about the planned flops or when a show with interesting female characters end up getting desecrated to garbage. (Tyrande for example with WoW. Don't even wish to see this character anymore either.) Witcher with Yennefer, Triss and Ciri.

This is how I feel about Dragonflight btw. I get an interesting female character and great topic of dragons.. that I have enjoyed and it gets cut short. Don't forget.. Abusive narrative of SLs funded. Teamwork narrative with Dragonflight not funded. They are not sincere and do not have good intentions and rather people want to actually believe it or not, no one is escaping abuse. No one.

S... so your complaint isn't that they're making shows with female leads, it's that they're not the female leads you personally want them to be about? And--somehow--this makes them "insincere" and lacking in "good intentions?"

Like, omg, where's my Cyclops series and and and my Wonder Man series and uhm my Sentry series and my Captain Britain series?! Like, omg, why does Marvel keep churning out all these other male characters I don't like instead of these ones I do like (even if some of them are coming soon, but who cares about facts like that)? Like, omg omg omg.

It's a conspiracy I tells ya!!!

[Raisei]

No.

Bruce/Smart Hulk clearly sees Hulk as a completely different persona. He even admits to it in this episode. "One time I was stuck as the Other Guy for over two years," which he says while Smart Hulk. He clearly views himself as Bruce while transformed. The only aspect of Hulk that he has, besides lesser physical traits, are heightened emotions and more confidence. None of Hulk's actual personality is there; Bruce just keeps saying it's an amalgamation to rationalize what he's doing to himself.

We are talking about a guy with severe mental issues. He is not a reliable source on this topic, how could he be.

ESPECIALLY since he is Smart Hulk at this moment. He THINKS he is only Banner with the body of the Hulk, but we as the observers can see that he is behaving differently then a pure Banner.