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  1. #21
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    the whining of raiders when they consider anything outside raids "mandatory" is deafening, same with PvP-ers...
    This is so common in newer expansions. So common.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  2. #22
    remove valor cap and players will expect you to have full heroic gear week 1. Raid is now the worst source of gear in the game and doing raid only is not sustainable. But doing mm+ only is...

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    And this is how out of the loop I am. Still corruption was a lot of fun, blizzard should just take more risk, do some whacky goofy shit, but they are to corporate spreadsheet designing as we all know.
    Its kinda interesting because the affix is super simple (dreadlords hidden throughout the dungeon) but it is really fun finishing a dungeon at +30% haste on the last boss!

    Then you go into Legion timewalking this week and it feels terrible comparatively lol

    Anyway the raid "affixes" are pretty fun too.

    This experimental patch of trying new stuff is turnout out pretty well overall!

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    And this is how out of the loop I am. Still corruption was a lot of fun, blizzard should just take more risk, do some whacky goofy shit, but they are to corporate spreadsheet designing as we all know.
    It might have been "a lot of fun" for certain specs, but a lot of specs ran super boring % stat increases.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    It might have been "a lot of fun" for certain specs, but a lot of specs ran super boring % stat increases.
    I mean, running a SPriest that had 200% haste consistently was the opposite of boring for me. Corruption was, hands down, the most fun I ever had in this game (especially once they added the vendor). It's a pity they yeeted it in favor of just removing the concept of keeping gear interesting.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Casuals will never agree with each other one what is considered "real" casual content that they would actually want to play. Then... they argue amongst themselves and accuse each other of not being a "real" casual.
    It always circles back to the same thing. What is a casual in the first place?

    Some define it as a person who has a limited time to play but who might otherwise engage in group content. Others suggest its a more a solo player might play as much as a mythic raider but doesn't want to rely on other players for progression.

    Obviously those two groups have very different constraints and interests so I think the community just has to do better at self defining their playstyles.

  7. #27
    All MMOs should learn from ffxiv
    No this isn't a WOW BAD FFXIV GOOD post

    FFXIV releases crafted gear that's best in slot that anyone can buy before a new raid tier
    Then the raid comes out and the crafted gear is better than the normal raid gear
    HOWEVER, the normal raid gear is needed to make the Savage gear that's best in slot and superior to the crafted gear

    This means causals can get their foot in the door and not feel that useless. Gear doesn't make a player good, but it does make them less bad. It also allows them to get better/on par gear with the current tier to do the side activities.

    All the best gear is now locked behind savage. Can't do it? that's ok, cause in 3 months Square-enix makes some of it easier to get, very easy. Then in another 1-2 months then make all the gear purchasable through very casual means.

    You see...Blizzard nerfs content over time. After 3-6 months Blizz will start nerfing fights, but that only benefits the guilds who have those bosses on farm cause now they can kill them faster. It doesn't help casual players because they still lack the ilevel to even get invites.

    By using gear as the nerf bar and not the content itself, it makes it so not only is the content easier but casuals/new players can now actually access it. This is also good for alts

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    tier set forge (and dinars) is very nice, but i haven't heard of it being in dragonflight, let alone a permanent idea going forward. (not that ive looked)
    uncapped valor is just for the "end of expansion fun" period.

    also keep in mind that most decisions regarding DF were probably set in stone BEFORE they made that tier set forge. so yeah i'm not really expecting blizz to have learned much of anything.
    The dinar vendor is an experiment, much like reusing old expansion dungeons for m+.

    Though we already know that idea is carrying into Dragonflight for at least the first 2 seasons.

    I think they've also said the tier forge worked very well, except they'd probably give quicker access to it across the board if they reuse it.
    Quote Originally Posted by AZSolii View Post
    "yes, let's piss him off because he loves his long hair. Let us twirl our evil mustaches amidst the background music of honky-tonk pianos! GENIUS!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Culexus View Post
    Yes i hate those sneaky account thieves that come to my house and steal my computer in order to steal some wow money! Those bastards! *shakes fist*

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by neik View Post
    I'd like to give credit to developers for finally getting in sync with casual player base. Couple things (among other) that stands out.

    • Tier set forge
    • Uncapped valor S4

    These and other few good changes indicates that Blizzard finally understands that removing previously existing briers is a good thing. What can casual player do with more gear?

    • Stay subscribed.
    • Go do solo older content.
    • Join mythic plus groups.
    • Engage in activities that has power limits (brawlers guild, etc)
    • Have more motivation in general to engage in current content including raiding.

    And because power rocks, player can finally do whatever they want with it. It feels good to be powerful rather than memeing around like a scrub.
    I don't disagree that casuals having more options to play is good, ofc it's good, buuuuut.......your logic is horribly flawed.

    Those things you listed as benefits? You could do them all at any point in wows history. You could do them in s3. You could do them in BFA.

    And more powerful than what? An npc? Again, that hasn't changed. And you are not any more powerful than other players, as everyone has access to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    It might have been "a lot of fun" for certain specs, but a lot of specs ran super boring % stat increases.
    For feral druid is was amazing, cause more crits means more shit to do, which gives faster rotation fuss more dmg etc. Corruption was peak fun imo. Tanks could even do single target damage with that tentacle thing or whatever it was called...wow
    Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/djuntas ARPG - RTS - MMO

  11. #31
    What is a casual ?

  12. #32
    FFXIV has a REALLY great gear-system in place to reward players of all skill levels/investment. Raiding still awards the best gear visually and statistically (same as WoW), but allows casuals to keep up with hardcore players with the tomestone and upgrade systems. Tomestones are capped via a weekly currency, so it’ll take longer to gear this way, but it keeps everyone happy and generates continued engagement.

    I really hope WoW considers implementing a similar system in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gungus View Post

    You think the girl born with eight limbs is now a spider?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Celvira View Post
    FFXIV has a REALLY great gear-system in place to reward players of all skill levels/investment. Raiding still awards the best gear visually and statistically (same as WoW), but allows casuals to keep up with hardcore players with the tomestone and upgrade systems. Tomestones are capped via a weekly currency, so it’ll take longer to gear this way, but it keeps everyone happy and generates continued engagement.

    I really hope WoW considers implementing a similar system in the future.
    They have for a decade... they just have more difficulty modes so need more layers then ff.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    M+ is not casual content. You have to take the game pretty seriously to engage in any premade group content.

    Also, every end of expansion patch gives away free gear, if casual gearing is there from the start then we can talk.
    I'm a seasoned player and can figure stuff out pretty quickly but honestly even with M+ just being nice can go a big distance. I pug a lot of my keys including on alt's that I just don't have the time/gold to gear out with double lego's etc. and I'll start a +2 group saying "Looking for some help" and it's amazing how many people are out there to help. There are some idiots or meanies as per normal but I've had far more positive groups vs. the one jerk in the group. My lowest ilvl character right now is 230 and it's my 3rd week of pugging a +2 and I have green gear, no lego's, 1-2pc tier and I still do good because I know how to play but I cannot stress how being humble and nice can go such a far way.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by kingj56 View Post
    Bring back the loot drop rates to where they were pre shadowlands. My 15 man were all casuals STRUGGLING to clear castle Nat because of lack of gear and they are all far to busy to spam M+. We have never not gotten AOTC on a tier. I had to get my AOTC with my CE friend group. If they do that so i dont have to run M+ (which i cant be bothered to do) for extra gear, ill resub and play. If there isnt an equal alternative that wont have me playing the game 8+ hours a week like pre shadowlands then im out, maybe for good.
    They are increasing the amount of gear. At the start of SL it was 1 piece per 6 people in a raid, changed to 1 piece per 5 players. So a 15 man group gets 3 pieces per boss + bonus loot like tier pieces. In DF they change it to 1 piece per 4 people so a 15 man group will get 3-4 pieces. Roughly 1 additional piece per boss, 10 items for the group for a full clear. I don't think they will ever go back to Legion or BFA numbers with 1 piece per 3 people because groups stopped raiding really quick because they got their gear from the raid and m+ and at the end of a season there were hardly any pugs for the raids. At the moment it feels bad to do a full clear and get 1-2 items total but we're raiding for a longer period to get gear. Instead of raiding 8 weeks until everyone has most item he wants, it takes about 12 weeks before we stop raiding.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    They have for a decade... they just have more difficulty modes so need more layers then ff.
    The gap in item level is still pretty large between each MMO. In FFXIV, the difference between savage and tomestone is a paltry 10 item levels, but WoW can have anywhere from a 30-40 item level advantage based on the tier.

    I definitely think WoW can do a bit better in keeping players closer together in item level for each major patch cycle than they have currently. Mythic shouldn’t be the reason why casuals are forced to endure significantly worse item levels for 3-4 months than other players, especially if they play for several hours each week but don’t (or cannot) participate in competitive pve.
    Last edited by Celvira; 2022-08-22 at 05:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gungus View Post

    You think the girl born with eight limbs is now a spider?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Celvira View Post
    The gap in item level is still pretty large between each MMO. In FFXIV, the difference between savage and tomestone is a paltry 10 item levels, but WoW can have anywhere from a 30-40 item level advantage based on the tier.

    I definitely think WoW can do a bit better in keeping players closer together in item level for each major patch cycle than they have currently. Mythic shouldn’t be the reason why casuals are forced to endure significantly worse item levels for 3-4 months than other players, especially if they play for several hours each week but don’t (or cannot) participate in competitive pve.
    Why would they compare themselves to mythic players an not normal or heroic ones?

    I get gear in pvp is a stupid outdated concept but beyond that just focus on your content.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Why would they compare themselves to mythic players an not normal or heroic ones?

    I get gear in pvp is a stupid outdated concept but beyond that just focus on your content.
    I used mythic as it’s the highest tier of content and item levels, which roughly equates to savage in FFXIV since I was comparing the two games. WoW balances their raids (not entirely, but enough to be a substantial factor) around item levels opposed to FFXIV’s nearly sole emphasis on different, more punishing mechanics in savage.

    WoW and mythic DEFINITELY up the mechanical difficulty, but balancing around a higher required item level (on average) is why casual players have been stuck with significantly lower item levels when compared to XIV’s playerbase at any given patch. If WoW shifted mythic balancing and tuning around the content differences rather than raw item levels, the gap between casual and hardcore could be lowered without causing any serious harm beyond a few bruised egos.
    Last edited by Celvira; 2022-08-22 at 05:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gungus View Post

    You think the girl born with eight limbs is now a spider?

  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    And this is how out of the loop I am. Still corruption was a lot of fun, blizzard should just take more risk, do some whacky goofy shit, but they are to corporate spreadsheet designing as we all know.
    Yep gear is so very boring without TF/Corruption stuff. You get close to what is bis and then you hit a wall. Great.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by lordjust View Post
    They are increasing the amount of gear. At the start of SL it was 1 piece per 6 people in a raid, changed to 1 piece per 5 players. So a 15 man group gets 3 pieces per boss + bonus loot like tier pieces. In DF they change it to 1 piece per 4 people so a 15 man group will get 3-4 pieces. Roughly 1 additional piece per boss, 10 items for the group for a full clear. I don't think they will ever go back to Legion or BFA numbers with 1 piece per 3 people because groups stopped raiding really quick because they got their gear from the raid and m+ and at the end of a season there were hardly any pugs for the raids. At the moment it feels bad to do a full clear and get 1-2 items total but we're raiding for a longer period to get gear. Instead of raiding 8 weeks until everyone has most item he wants, it takes about 12 weeks before we stop raiding.
    They fixed that by getting rid of the shit you HAD to farm to catch up. Azerite powers, Legendaries, Mandatory quests for said legendaries. In the old days this was never a problem because once you got geared and cleared your heroic if you didnt raid mythic/heroic you just made an ult. I love alt raiding honestly. I wish they would bring that back. I have raided and cleared current content on 5 alts in one tier. Alot of players were like me then, I suspect they still are.

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