1. #66441
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    I’m excited for Dragonflight. I love WoW lore; however, SL showing us death is so off putting for anyone dying. We can’t be sad if he dies because we can go visit him in the Shadowlands! Or, if we can’t, we know he’s ok.
    Yes, they definitively need to deal with the Shadowlands in some way and soon, because as long as it exists every death is meaningless.

    The damage done to the game by the story and narrative of SL is crazy.

    DF is Danuser's last chance of making something decent with his job IMO. If he fails I hope that Blizzard immediately releases him from his duties.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  2. #66442
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Yes, they definitively need to deal with the Shadowlands in some way and soon, because as long as it exists every death is meaningless.

    The damage done to the game by the story and narrative of SL is crazy.

    DF is Danuser's last chance of making something decent with his job IMO. If he fails I hope that Blizzard immediately releases him from his duties.
    I hate seeing posts like this, because ultimately I think that Shadowlands is terrible, but it has to be said that it doesn't make death meaningless.
    An afterlife has ALWAYS been around in WoW. It's also always been something people can interact with.

    That we get some very basic insight into core realms does not change that. Death and the Shadowlands does not change how resurrection works in most cases. It doesn't change how people interact with spirits and talking with them in most cases.

    There has always been an afterlife in WoW. This is explicit and always has been. That we see part of it does not invalidate death.

    If the rift between ICC and Shadowlands has been repaired, and travel is now extremely difficult, it's just back to what has always existed in WoW lore.

  3. #66443
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Nah, they will summon 5 Zonds and combine them into a Megazond.
    "This isn't even my final form!"


    Formerly known as Arafal

  4. #66444
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    I hate seeing posts like this, because ultimately I think that Shadowlands is terrible, but it has to be said that it doesn't make death meaningless.
    An afterlife has ALWAYS been around in WoW. It's also always been something people can interact with.

    That we get some very basic insight into core realms does not change that. Death and the Shadowlands does not change how resurrection works in most cases. It doesn't change how people interact with spirits and talking with them in most cases.

    There has always been an afterlife in WoW. This is explicit and always has been. That we see part of it does not invalidate death.

    If the rift between ICC and Shadowlands has been repaired, and travel is now extremely difficult, it's just back to what has always existed in WoW lore.

    IMO, the issue with shadowlands is that it doesnt really work from a gameplay prospective.

    It is the afterlife. How can things die there? How can I go to the afterlife and kill things left and right and then they cease to be? In that sense shadowlands is just basically another plane of existence that comes after death and it's not true afterlife, if this makes sense.

    It's just weird. Plus, did we all forget where they said that each character in shadowlands is comprised of ALL their AU/MU characters? how stupid is that. For example, garrosh is supposed to be all versions of garrosh combined into one in the afterlife, and yet it's obviously the MU garrosh.

    Terrible story writing.

  5. #66445
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    I hate seeing posts like this, because ultimately I think that Shadowlands is terrible, but it has to be said that it doesn't make death meaningless.
    An afterlife has ALWAYS been around in WoW. It's also always been something people can interact with.

    That we get some very basic insight into core realms does not change that. Death and the Shadowlands does not change how resurrection works in most cases. It doesn't change how people interact with spirits and talking with them in most cases.

    There has always been an afterlife in WoW. This is explicit and always has been. That we see part of it does not invalidate death.

    If the rift between ICC and Shadowlands has been repaired, and travel is now extremely difficult, it's just back to what has always existed in WoW lore.
    There is an afterlive in probably every fantasy universe that usually is not meddled too much with because potentially you can do enormous damage to your lore. Shadowlands is a perfect example of that.

    Basic insight into core realms? If someone close to us die we just have to talk to our pal Pelagos and ask him to point us in which direction we have to go to take a nice cup of tea with our friend who died yesterday.

    Travel to the Shadowlands is, according to the last time that Danuser spoke about it, extremely easy, we just have to cross a portal. I think that he even mentioned as an example a baker visiting his lost ones.

    Death is meaningless in WoW until Shadowlands is properly dealt with. Again, we can just go there, grab our pal, and bring him back to the realms of life. Is just that easy. The possibility is there, and if Pelagos do not allow it we only have to use brute force to achieve our objective. One would have expected more mistery or more difficulties, but no, just with brute force, we can bring anyone, probably with his body an all, not an ethereal shape of what he / she was.

    Its pathetic.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  6. #66446
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    If the rift between ICC and Shadowlands has been repaired, and travel is now extremely difficult,
    This isn't true, it never even was with how travel has been established.
    We just didn't know it was a place we can get to in the first place.

    The Brokers, Necros, Kyrians, etc. travel between the Veil without a single problem and we have established portal links directly to Oribos in our capitals.

    That we get some very basic insight into core realms does not change that
    Very basic insight.
    You call learning everything there is to know about them, joining them and climbing their ranks to become one of the highest ranking members of their covenants "very basic insight"?

    Hell, we are even buddy-buddy with the Arbiter.
    We HELPED him become the Arbiter in the first place.
    Last edited by Raetary; 2022-08-28 at 07:06 AM.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  7. #66447
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Ion kinda confirming we will have more classes added in the future:

    "This is something we talk about a lot. Evoker not having a tank spec, I think, is more a reflection on the fantasy of what being a draconic being is and how you would expect it to act. A breath weapon and wings and mobility and all that felt like it lent itself more to a ranged-based class, a caster. And caster abilities don’t always work well with tanking, so we didn’t go in that direction with that fantasy. Future classes may have tank specs."
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  8. #66448
    Quote Originally Posted by Therougetitan View Post
    You should keep your info updated. The top two guilds in Sepulcher used two holy priests. MW was also used. The healer neither of the top two guilds used was Resto shaman. Also if you just take 30 seconds to look at the healer leaderboards for mythic+ it is mostly holy priests at the top. Your post is like a time capsule from Sanctum days a year ago that somehow just got slowly posted now.
    Your statement makes not much sense as your and my time frames are entirely different. You look at the recent tier when I am speaking of a 10 year span since Monks have been introduced. Yes, there were / are a few tiers were Monks and even Holy Priests are "top tier", but again, that's not the point I made. Who cares about Sepulcher parsings in 4-5 months? Nobody. That's why they really don't matter here. It doesn't matter though, let's just pretend Monks don't exist and nobody would care anyway.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2022-08-28 at 09:14 AM.
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  9. #66449
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Your statement makes not much sense as your and my time frames are entirely different. You look at the recent tier when I am speaking of a 10 year span since Monks have been introduced. Yes, there were / are a few tiers were Monks and even Holy Priests are "top tier", but again, that's not the point I made. Who cares about Sepulcher parsings in 4-5 months? Nobody. That's why they really don't matter here. It doesn't matter though, let's just pretend Monks don't exist and nobody would care anyway.
    Uhhhhh, what is it even this logic? MW/HolyP do not matter now, because they didn't matter enough in the past, while being actually good in CURRENT content? You judge entire spec performance with how good and relevant they were in the past, not the present? Again, what is this logic? I remind you this is a conversation, which spec should get CR, based on it's current/DF utility.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-08-28 at 09:21 AM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  10. #66450
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Uhhhhh, what is it even this logic? MW/HolyP do not matter now, because they didn't matter enough in the past, while being actually good in CURRENT content? You judge entire spec performance with how good and relevant they were in the past, not the present? Again, what is this logic?
    This logic is the same you applied in your statement above that Ion is confirming future classes (when future classes were never in doubt anyway).

    On a serious note: there is a reason why Monks are by far the least played class. What do you think is it? That players just don't like how they play? Or that they, for the most time since their introduction, were a class that was neither mandatory nor generally strong enough to attract enough players to be at least as popular as the second least popular class? If you'd remove Monks from the game right now, nobody would complain, because the general audience doesn't even recognize the class. Bold statement, I know.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2022-08-28 at 09:24 AM.
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  11. #66451
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    This logic is the same you applied in your statement above that Ion is confirming future classes.
    The one where the lead dev says future classes may have tank specs, low key confirming new classes in the future? Eh, no. You are extremely confused right now and your logic is totally backwards. Address please why you judge spec based on it's past performance, while disregarding the present.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  12. #66452
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    This logic is the same you applied in your statement above that Ion is confirming future classes (when future classes were never in doubt anyway).

    On a serious note: there is a reason why Monks are by far the least played class. What do you think is it? That players just don't like how they play? Or that they, for the most time since their introduction, were a class that was neither mandatory nor generally strong enough to attract enough players to be at least as popular as the second least popular class? If you'd remove Monks from the game right now, nobody would complain, because the general audience doesn't even recognize the class. Bold statement, I know.
    You take that back! Monk got by far the best looking tier set with Sepulcher. And I would miss my little alt

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  13. #66453
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    This logic is the same you applied in your statement above that Ion is confirming future classes (when future classes were never in doubt anyway).

    On a serious note: there is a reason why Monks are by far the least played class. What do you think is it? That players just don't like how they play? Or that they, for the most time since their introduction, were a class that was neither mandatory nor generally strong enough to attract enough players to be at least as popular as the second least popular class? If you'd remove Monks from the game right now, nobody would complain, because the general audience doesn't even recognize the class. Bold statement, I know.
    I would absolutely say it's because most people just don't like the theme and style of the class.
    Being a karate guy just doesn't appeal to most people. The class is also entirely shrouded in Pandaren aesthetic and culture. Maybe if they made it a little more racially neutral, it'd attract more people.

  14. #66454
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    You take that back! Monk got by far the best looking tier set with Sepulcher. And I would miss my little alt
    Oh I love Monks since the day they were introduced, I've always loved Mistweaver and the "mist" aesthetic. Unfortunately the class had so many down phases and so little love put into it that it's just as unpopular as it was back during MoP when it got introduced to the game. Monk is most likely my diehard favorite class, it just makes me sad to see it's waning.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by unfunnymeme View Post
    I would absolutely say it's because most people just don't like the theme and style of the class.
    Being a karate guy just doesn't appeal to most people. The class is also entirely shrouded in Pandaren aesthetic and culture. Maybe if they made it a little more racially neutral, it'd attract more people.
    Or just make it... special? Don't know. 10 years and Blizzard has failed to deliver anything in that regard. Monk will always be seen as a step child class that really never was meant to be part of the game if MoP did not happen.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  15. #66455
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unfunnymeme View Post
    I would absolutely say it's because most people just don't like the theme and style of the class.
    Being a karate guy just doesn't appeal to most people. The class is also entirely shrouded in Pandaren aesthetic and culture. Maybe if they made it a little more racially neutral, it'd attract more people.
    Monk aren't Pandaren themed only - you can easily blend them into Draenei, Humans, Orcs (to represent blademasters), Dwarfes (Brewmasters!) and Forsaken.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  16. #66456
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    There is an afterlive in probably every fantasy universe that usually is not meddled too much with because potentially you can do enormous damage to your lore. Shadowlands is a perfect example of that.

    Basic insight into core realms? If someone close to us die we just have to talk to our pal Pelagos and ask him to point us in which direction we have to go to take a nice cup of tea with our friend who died yesterday.

    Travel to the Shadowlands is, according to the last time that Danuser spoke about it, extremely easy, we just have to cross a portal. I think that he even mentioned as an example a baker visiting his lost ones.

    Death is meaningless in WoW until Shadowlands is properly dealt with. Again, we can just go there, grab our pal, and bring him back to the realms of life. Is just that easy. The possibility is there, and if Pelagos do not allow it we only have to use brute force to achieve our objective. One would have expected more mistery or more difficulties, but no, just with brute force, we can bring anyone, probably with his body an all, not an ethereal shape of what he / she was.

    Its pathetic.
    "And bring him back to the Realms of Life"

    The Dark Beyond is not the Plane of Life. Are we going to ignore the established lore in SL now? Is this gonna be a common thing? Cause I'll fact check y'all hard.

  17. #66457
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    "And bring him back to the Realms of Life"

    The Dark Beyond is not the Plane of Life. Are we going to ignore the established lore in SL now? Is this gonna be a common thing? Cause I'll fact check y'all hard.
    Oh c'mon, you get what I mean. To Azeroth, bring him back to Azeroth, so he can live again.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  18. #66458
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    You take that back! Monk got by far the best looking tier set with Sepulcher. And I would miss my little alt
    If only they would explore those distinctions in game I think I would like the class better. But for the most part the only non-Panderan monks in the game were the ones in SM. Everyone else is basically an adherent to Panderan teachings.

  19. #66459
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Oh c'mon, you get what I mean. To Azeroth, bring him back to Azeroth, so he can live again.
    You didn't pay a whole lot of attention in Shadowlands, did you? It's not that easy. Recently dead souls can't really do much, even if you somehow get them to the mortal plane.

    And that it is easy for the living to go to the Shadowlands doesn't automatically mean the dead can just as easily leave.

  20. #66460
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Oh c'mon, you get what I mean. To Azeroth, bring him back to Azeroth, so he can live again.
    Say Reality lmaoo

    My lore nerd mind gets goofy otherwise lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You didn't pay a whole lot of attention in Shadowlands, did you? It's not that easy. Recently dead souls can't really do much, even if you somehow get them to the mortal plane.

    And that it is easy for the living to go to the Shadowlands doesn't automatically mean the dead can just as easily leave.
    That too. You're also bound to that realm no?

    - - - Updated - - -

    There's a reason why the Ysera stuff requires "great sacrifice"

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