1. #66481
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    I'd agree if this was FFXIV. But it's not. Actually this is pretty specific to WoW. I don't know any other popular video game franchise that has writers that handle the story with such indifference and makes the fanbase so divided.
    I agree, but I also don't think it matters if it's encrypted or not in that sense - there's nothing we can do or say to affect it anyway. I'd much rather have the story beats (and mostly everything else, tbh) encrypted, even if they end up being disappointing. Better than to have everyone know everything months before the expansion launches.
    Last edited by Shrouded; 2022-08-28 at 06:55 PM.

  2. #66482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    I agree, but I also don't think it matters if it's encrypted or not in that sense - there's nothing we can do or say to affect it anyway. I'd much rather have the story beats (and mostly everything else, tbh) encrypted, even if they end up being disappointed. Better than to have everyone know everything months before the expansion launches.
    100%. Doesn't matter if it's going to be good or not. I rather it stay encrypted. However, I also do a REALLY good job at not spoiling the story for myself even when it is available (I simply ignore story related threads, videos, etc. or at-least glance over them just barely).

  3. #66483
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    I'd agree if this was FFXIV. But it's not. Actually this is pretty specific to WoW. I don't know any other popular video game franchise that has writers that handle the story with such indifference and makes the fanbase so divided.
    I don't think having a poorly-told story is WoW-specific. It's really not the sacrilegious travesty of fiction that people like to blow it up as.

    I agree that it's better for them to keep as much under wraps as they can. Blizzard doesn't really gain anything worthwhile by being fully transparent about every major endgame story beat with this community just because they've been telling a bad story recently. Some teasers and synopses of the zones are more than enough. Keep the rest encrypted until launch, there's no reason not to.

  4. #66484
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    So, I love everyone’s response to this question so far and some really good ideas. However, here’s my opinion on lore/bosses/etc.

    Personally, I hate the whole “big bad of an expansion” and “defeat big bad at the end of the expansion” theme. What would I prefer? Regardless of your personal feelings on Garrosh, Guldan, and Sylvanas, something I really liked about these characters was the fact that they were built up over the course of an expansion and moved into the next.

    For example, Sargeras and the Burning Legion. It was SO cool to see that story build up in WC3, then we had the Burning Crusade, Wrathion questline in MoP, WoD Guldan and HFC ending, and finally, the Legion expansion and Argus.

    Then, there’s Zovaal (the complete opposite). His character was basically “rickrolled” onto us at the VERY end of BFA (kind of), then introduced “properly” in SL and, unfortunately, discarded in SL (the same expansion), too. This felt awful.

    What I don’t want to see in Dragonflight is another SL “big bad then kill”, and instead, a Burning Legion, Sylvanas, Guldan, or Garrosh situation where maybe Murozond is finally introduced and takes us into 11.0 similarly to Garrosh (MoP to WoD) and Guldan (WoD to Legion), and Sylvanas (BFA to SL). That would be awesome, again, IMO.
    Hmm, I'm somewhere in the middle
    I like the seemless transitions between expansions. On the other hand, I don;t believe that MMORPG is not a proper genre to tell ambitious and mysterious stories, since the timespan between content deliveries is just way too broad. At some point I simply lose interest, especially when the storywriting is poor and too complex to keep track on that.
    That's why "big bads" come handy. You can still introduce a character, develop it and put it to the final rest within a single expansion. Better - you can do that within a single PATCH (Lei Shen). On top of that, have secondary characters, leave some breadcrumbs, to lead the story into another expansion.

    Zovaal is just a bad example - it was a lackluster, one-dimensional character, which served no other goal than to be a "big bad".
    But then... Sylvanas - she was being developed since the beginning of Legion - just to become a total failure and possibly the biggest disappointment I ever experienced in this game storywise.

    I guess there's a middle ground

  5. #66485
    WoWs story would be better if they just didn't give a shit about the whiny playerbase complaining about "unfair treatment" or "I don't care about that character" and just told a coherent story without changing it 5000 times because baby Timmy doesn't like Sylvanas and wants more Arthas and how it's not fair that the Night Elf tree burns down.

  6. #66486
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ion kinda confirming we will have more classes added in the future:

    "This is something we talk about a lot. Evoker not having a tank spec, I think, is more a reflection on the fantasy of what being a draconic being is and how you would expect it to act. A breath weapon and wings and mobility and all that felt like it lent itself more to a ranged-based class, a caster. And caster abilities don’t always work well with tanking, so we didn’t go in that direction with that fantasy. Future classes may have tank specs."
    I mean, yeah? Why would they stop adding them?

  7. #66487
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    I mean, yeah? Why would they stop adding them?
    BREAKING NEWS! World of Warcraft will add more content in the future!

  8. #66488
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    BREAKING NEWS! World of Warcraft will add more content in the future!
    Yeah I saw some people posting this bit elsewhere too like that and again just leaves me scratching my head.

    It'd be news if they confirmed they wouldn't add new classes.

  9. #66489
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ion kinda confirming we will have more classes added in the future:

    "This is something we talk about a lot. Evoker not having a tank spec, I think, is more a reflection on the fantasy of what being a draconic being is and how you would expect it to act. A breath weapon and wings and mobility and all that felt like it lent itself more to a ranged-based class, a caster. And caster abilities don’t always work well with tanking, so we didn’t go in that direction with that fantasy. Future classes may have tank specs."
    Funny, their "reflection on the fantasy of what being a draconinc being is and how one would expect it to act" seems to be way off from what people conceptualized for so many years on these forums. They made them slim AF, and caster suits this concept well. But then, they could have implemented bulkier guys to serve as tanks or something? And in the end... this logic doesn't work really. What keeps a DRAGON that embraced the power of all 5 ASPECTS from being able to tank. Kinda meh. I guess it's about the lack of time/resources to go for three specs. But the feedback from playerbase may still change their mind about it in the future.

  10. #66490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    Funny, their "reflection on the fantasy of what being a draconinc being is and how one would expect it to act" seems to be way off from what people conceptualized for so many years on these forums. They made them slim AF, and caster suits this concept well. But then, they could have implemented bulkier guys to serve as tanks or something? And in the end... this logic doesn't work really. What keeps a DRAGON that embraced the power of all 5 ASPECTS from being able to tank. Kinda meh. I guess it's about the lack of time/resources to go for three specs. But the feedback from playerbase may still change their mind about it in the future.
    They need playable Drakonids as a more typical draconic humanoid race with access to normal classes.

  11. #66491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    Funny, their "reflection on the fantasy of what being a draconinc being is and how one would expect it to act" seems to be way off from what people conceptualized for so many years on these forums. They made them slim AF, and caster suits this concept well. But then, they could have implemented bulkier guys to serve as tanks or something? And in the end... this logic doesn't work really. What keeps a DRAGON that embraced the power of all 5 ASPECTS from being able to tank. Kinda meh. I guess it's about the lack of time/resources to go for three specs. But the feedback from playerbase may still change their mind about it in the future.
    Dragons are primarily magical beings and Evoker's spellcasting focus mirrors that.

    Sure, dragons are also physically strong, but that is merely a byproduct of their immense size, something which the Dracthyr lack.

  12. #66492
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Dragons are primarily magical beings and Evoker's spellcasting focus mirrors that.

    Sure, dragons are also physically strong, but that is merely a byproduct of their immense size, something which the Dracthyr lack.
    I'd say that is a product of their anatomy, not their size. Plenty of animals are extremely lethal in a physical fight without being huge. Dracthyr possess claws, talons as well as wings strong enough to produce a wing buffet and a tail strong enough to produce a tail sweep.

  13. #66493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ion kinda confirming we will have more classes added in the future:

    "This is something we talk about a lot. Evoker not having a tank spec, I think, is more a reflection on the fantasy of what being a draconic being is and how you would expect it to act. A breath weapon and wings and mobility and all that felt like it lent itself more to a ranged-based class, a caster. And caster abilities don’t always work well with tanking, so we didn’t go in that direction with that fantasy. Future classes may have tank specs."
    Not sure why they think the fantasy doesn't include a big, beefy, POWERFUL dragon that just beats the crap out of people using its massive bulk, huge claws, giant tail, and bitey jaws. Dragons aren't "quick and swooshy casters". They're GIGANTIC enemies who have presence and weight. Maybe little DRAKES are quick and swooshy casters, but DRAGONS are not.

  14. #66494
    More or less every single dragon humanoid race in the fantasy genre is slim, tall, elegant and not beefy at all.

    Even actual dragons are very slim in WoW. Dracthyr are literally dragons on two legs.

  15. #66495
    Eh. In my opinion, they went in the correct direction as far as the Evoker class design leaning all the way into the ranged/magical/mobile traits of dragons rather than their more mundane animal traits like their 'scratchy claws' or their 'bitey jaws'. Or, rather than 'correct', I'd say I think they went in the much less boring direction. I probably would not be half as interested in trying out Evoker as I am now if the bulk of their kit was different flavors of 'scratch/bite your enemy for X to Y damage'. I already have a feral druid.

  16. #66496
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Dragons are primarily magical beings and Evoker's spellcasting focus mirrors that.

    Sure, dragons are also physically strong, but that is merely a byproduct of their immense size, something which the Dracthyr lack.
    Well, that's precisely why so many people were upset about the size of dracthyr - because it didn't reflect on the nature of dragon. But that's Blizzard's game, and that's what they decided to provide. Not that I'm okay with that, but yup, in the end, they are the devs, not me

    Also, as far as I know, Neltharion created dracthyr as a "perfect soldier". I'd assume one would add upon the dragon, not take some away from it, to create a Dragon+ They wield the power of 5 aspects, yet they clearly lack the black essence in that whole concept. And since black drakes are often represented as the biggest, the strongest and lorewise are connected to the idea of 'protecting' (Earth-warden), it only seems natural for them to become tanks.

  17. #66497
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    Well, that's precisely why so many people were upset about the size of dracthyr - because it didn't reflect on the nature of dragon. But that's Blizzard's game, and that's what they decided to provide. Not that I'm okay with that, but yup, in the end, they are the devs, not me

    Also, as far as I know, Neltharion created dracthyr as a "perfect soldier". I'd assume one would add upon the dragon, not take some away from it, to create a Dragon+ They wield the power of 5 aspects, yet they clearly lack the black essence in that whole concept. And since black drakes are often represented as the biggest, the strongest and lorewise are connected to the idea of 'protecting' (Earth-warden), it only seems natural for them to become tanks.
    When you consider logistics and the natural weaknesses of dragons, it makes sense. They don't need help with large open terrain battles. They need something for when there isn't enough room to accomodate a dragon.

    Besides, this makes for easier logistics, and that's the backbone of every army. They are perfect soldiers. Not perfect fighters.

  18. #66498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    They need playable Drakonids as a more typical draconic humanoid race with access to normal classes.
    They should make those playable.. they have to.
    I see more positive response to that model then those geckos for real.

    They will miss the ball if they end up being playable way to late like the zandalari trolls. To fuel on the excitement of players they should try to put them in(if at all) in a .2 patch when the hype is still there and not in the end when no one cares anymore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    More or less every single dragon humanoid race in the fantasy genre is slim, tall, elegant and not beefy at all.

    Even actual dragons are very slim in WoW. Dracthyr are literally dragons on two legs.
    Nice try, but I still dont like the model..

  19. #66499
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    WoWs story would be better if they just didn't give a shit about the whiny playerbase complaining about "unfair treatment" or "I don't care about that character" and just told a coherent story without changing it 5000 times because baby Timmy doesn't like Sylvanas and wants more Arthas and how it's not fair that the Night Elf tree burns down.
    You know that a coherent story without acknowledging the whiny player base would end up with Sylvanas getting the death sentence, right?

    The only reason why Sylvanas is still alive is that some players would riot if she got what she deserved. She's one of the evilest characters in the franchise and yet escaped justice while other guys such as Elisande, Garrosh, and Kael'thas, died for way less.

  20. #66500
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    When you consider logistics and the natural weaknesses of dragons, it makes sense. They don't need help with large open terrain battles. They need something for when there isn't enough room to accomodate a dragon.

    Besides, this makes for easier logistics, and that's the backbone of every army. They are perfect soldiers. Not perfect fighters.
    Yeah, cannot disagree on that, good take
    But I guess it's a bit far gone for that subject. After all, we are here, in WoW, having a new class based on Aspects. I'm especially surprised there's no black flight involved in their skillset, since Neltharion was the very dragon that made them in the first place.
    I don't know, if I were a designer, it would be such an obvious choice for development. There's never too many tanks in this game. We technically had no mail tank, which is another opportunity to fill that gap. Neltharion is all about earth, strength, endurance. You can't get more thematic dragon for tank's role than black dragonflight's one. This whole idea about them being purely spellcaster, as far as it's cool and fun, kinda feels forced to me, to break some "consensus"? for the lack of other word.
    It's a bit re-imagining a wheel to me. We know what dragons are, we know that a big part of their nature is strength and enormity. Instead, we get a gecko. To be honest, when we got the first leaks, I was in a great disbelief, as it simply didn't fit my image of WoW's creature

    With dragon-themed tank, there's so much you can do, like some sort of "overheated" gimmick. We shall see, maybe they'll change their minds.

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