Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Makabreska]

ngl, i'd love for a raid to just not be solved when it launches. In dungeons, everyone just goes in blind and figures out stuff on the go, but for raids, it's always "watch guides before we set foot at all"

Well, dungeons bosses usually have simpler/less cluttered mechanics, and cost of wipe is smaller. Also, first difficulty encountered are normals during leveling, and many people simply destroy those in their previous expac Mythic gear.

[Gorsameth]

ngl, i'd love for a raid to just not be solved when it launches. In dungeons, everyone just goes in blind and figures out stuff on the go, but for raids, it's always "watch guides before we set foot at all"

Dungeons bosses are a lot less complex and its 5 people taking an hour instead of 30min.
With a raid your already dealing with people generally having limited ability to commit to a 3+ hours block during an evening and its 20 people that instead of killing a boss in an hour and a half take 3 hours to maybe get to phase 2 on the first boss.

Its a completely different scale of time investment and commitment.

[Shakzor]

Dungeons bosses are a lot less complex and its 5 people taking an hour instead of 30min.
With a raid your already dealing with people generally having limited ability to commit to a 3+ hours block during an evening and its 20 people that instead of killing a boss in an hour and a half take 3 hours to maybe get to phase 2 on the first boss.

Its a completely different scale of time investment and commitment.

The dungeon journal explains pretty much everything, except how big an AoE might be or where to position and these things can be figured out pretty quickly. You pretty much always figure out beforehand what you need to do in any fight, by just reading it a minute when reaching the boss (or someone goes on /follow and reads it for all, idk).
I'd definitely like atleast a mini raid where we have 1-3 bosses with no prior testing, so it becomes an actual learning thing on live, rather than "repeat what others have done for hours on PTR already"

[fear]

It sounds off, but in practice its not all that different from how a PTR usually goes. The version we play on PTR is rarely if ever feature complete to begin with. And given the PTR would test the Pre-patch we wouldn't need more than that, or honestly even less given the primary reason to have s PTR is stress testing and tuning feedback.

Unlike any ptr of the past there is a lot to test for the prepatch 60+ new talents for every spec in the game I don't think there has ever been something like this. And unlike the past you can test every single talent without being at the new lvl cap. And there is a lot of things aren't getting tested at all on alpha like current lego's, conduits, convens etc interactions with new talents etc and while that only matters for a short time it still matters.

Ptr's use to get a lot of feedback and players but since borrowed power it mostly hasn't mattered as everything was always locked away in beta and there wasn't much to test pre new lvl cap. But borrowed power been a thing for what the past 7-8 years? This prepatch will be bigger than what 3.0 was as far as testable class changes go.

[Darkarath]

Unlike any ptr of the past there is a lot to test for the prepatch 60+ new talents for every spec in the game I don't think there has ever been something like this. And unlike the past you can test every single talent without being at the new lvl cap. And there is a lot of things aren't getting tested at all on alpha like current lego's, conduits, convens etc interactions with new talents etc and while that only matters for a short time it still matters.

Ptr's use to get a lot of feedback and players but since borrowed power it mostly hasn't mattered as everything was always locked away in beta and there wasn't much to test pre new lvl cap. But borrowed power been a thing for what the past 7-8 years? This prepatch will be bigger than what 3.0 was as far as testable class changes go.

Wait, when pre-patch hits all shitty SL systems will remain active? That is terrible. I wanted to finally do some PvP and experiment just with talents, without having to care about legendaries, covenants and soulbinds.

But wait, if there are covenant skills in talent trees, surely at least covenants skills will be deactivated, right?

[fear]

Wait, when pre-patch hits all shitty SL systems will remain active? That is terrible. I wanted to finally do some PvP and experiment just with talents, without having to care about legendaries, covenants and soulbinds.

But wait, if there are covenant skills in talent trees, surely at least covenants skills will be deactivated, right?

When they talked about it they said the ones from leggo's or covenant will override any talents if they are the same. Pvp will be more broken than any pre patch and that's saying something. Since you will have people that will have the equivalent of a bunch of leggos and covenant at once. So for example you will see warriors with spear while being nerco things like that lol. Or if say your best leggo is a talent you can just take the talent and make different leggo to do even more stupid things.

More or less you could set it up to have your two best covenant abilities ( or more lol ) at once and lots of leggos at once. And that doesn't even start on the fact that some classes are getting all of their current talent rows at once (warriors) or a few rows once.

It's possible they changed their minds on this and will turn it all off but this is the last info we were left with. However I don't think this will be the case because they took the time to give evoker sl leggos and covenant ability and conduits.

[Darkarath]

When they talked about it they said the ones from leggo's or covenant will override any talents if they are the same. Pvp will be more broken than any pre patch and that's saying something. Since you will have people that will have the equivalent of a bunch of leggos and covenant at once. So for example you will see warriors with spear while being nerco things like that lol. Or if say your best leggo is a talent you can just take the talent and make different leggo to do even more stupid things.

More or less you could set it up to have your two best covenant abilities ( or more lol ) at once and lots of leggos at once.

It's possible they changed their minds on this and will turn it all off but this is the last info we were left with. However I don't think this will be the case because they took the time to give evoker sl leggos and covenant ability and conduits.

Pffffff, pre-patch is waaay less exciting then. Seems a weird decision. Cannot wait to get rid of all the SL systems.

[fear]

I mean have you looked at most talent trees the only part you are getting away from are conduits and the convoluted way of change covenant/leggo "talents". All of the things many hate on sl abilities are sticking around in dragonflight lol. Pretty much everything that people have said I hate that x class has this stupid sl ability, said stupid abilities are in the talent tree so...

And in some cases the talent trees are going to amplify the stupidness of them.

Seems a weird decision. Cannot wait to get rid of all the SL systems.

I think in a way it makes some sense kind of. Something that borrowed power did everyone hated was you felt weaker in every prepatch vs before you always felt way stronger. So I would guess this they are doing that for the same reason they aren't doing borrowed power again.

[Makorus]

I mean have you looked at most talent trees the only part you are getting away from are conduits and the convoluted way of change covenant/leggo "talents". All of the things many hate on sl abilities are sticking around in dragonflight lol. Pretty much everything that people have said I hate that x class has this stupid sl ability, said stupid abilities are in the talent tree so...

And in some cases the talent trees are going to amplify the stupidness of them.

Wait, what is the issue with the actual abilities lmao

People are just making up shit to hate on now.

[fear]

Wait, what is the issue with the actual abilities lmao

People are just making up shit to hate on now.

I dunno I just know what I hear others say. I mean there are some pretty stupid things like the leggo that makes guardians immune to cc for 30secs etc.

[unbrained]

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1565328873016811521

Guys... something is happening on the alpha

[Darkarath]

I mean have you looked at most talent trees the only part you are getting away from are conduits and the convoluted way of change covenant/leggo "talents". All of the things many hate on sl abilities are sticking around in dragonflight lol. Pretty much everything that people have said I hate that x class has this stupid sl ability, said stupid abilities are in the talent tree so...

Oh I do not hate the abilities or the skills, but I dislike having all these player power related systems that I have to progress through. I just want to look at talents and gear, and PLAY!!

Plus the imbalance that will be on pre-patch by keeping these systems created will not be fun IMO.

- - - Updated - - -

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1565328873016811521

Guys... something is happening on the alpha

Hopefully BETA with my Vengeance DH talents !!

[Makabreska]

I dunno I just know what I hear others say. I mean there are some pretty stupid things like the leggo that makes guardians immune to cc for 30secs etc.

Yeeee, that is some bullshit over exaggeration. SL abilities were never the main issue, it was the fact that you could spec into one Cov with swap on a long cooldown. Have yet to see anyone hating on Abom Limb we see in DK tree. And if you really dislike the ability? Don't take it! You have so much choice now.

[Opeth69]

whats the casual endgame content like in DF? Have they released all the endgame content for non raiders or is there still more to come?

[Shakzor]

whats the casual endgame content like in DF? Have they released all the endgame content for non raiders or is there still more to come?

I think every content we get, is on alpha (minus the raid). No Torghasts, Warfronts, Island Expedition or other features they scrap next xpacs. Just plain ol' WoW in a sense.

[Dracullus]

I mean it just shows how much useless manpower the always-failed borrowed power systems consumed, when Dragonflight, which adds none of this stuff, can get finished so quickly.

Imo not exactly borrowed power, but choices within borrowed powers. I don't think artifact weapons caused many issues during Beta, bucause everything was designed with maxed out tree in mind.

But that will (hopefully) improve Beta, Alpha is shorter because they simply launched it with completed zones and testing focused on different part every week.

whats the casual endgame content like in DF? Have they released all the endgame content for non raiders or is there still more to come?

From what I saw world content will be like Shadowlands if you could pick all covenants at same time. Also I saw some invasions that usually were 9.1 content and currency from world PVP - both you can use to buy different sets.

Instead of Torghast you have this dragon thing - so far whole progression to unlock tree, collecting game, races.

[Arkura]

Imo not exactly borrowed power, but choices within borrowed powers. I don't think artifact weapons caused many issues during Beta, bucause everything was designed with maxed out tree in mind.

But that will (hopefully) improve Beta, Alpha is shorter because they simply launched it with completed zones and testing focused on different part every week.



From what I saw world content will be like Shadowlands if you could pick all covenants at same time. Also I saw some invasions that usually were 9.1 content and currency from world PVP - both you can use to buy different sets.

Instead of Torghast you have this dragon thing - so far whole progression to unlock tree, collecting game, races.

Also you have professions now that seems good and should keep you busy with the work order system if you like that kind of thing

[infinitemeridian]

whats the casual endgame content like in DF? Have they released all the endgame content for non raiders or is there still more to come?

If you've played the game since 5.4, then you'll know what to expect. You get the typical sandbox filler content that devolves into just fill the bar, world quests (which I hear are faster than SL at least), and the new "invasions", which are a catchup mechanic that seems mildly interesting, but probably not for the long-term.

Then you've got dragonriding, which seems promising but then the progression seems like it will be done in about a week by most people and it will just devolve into collecting customizations and player-races. Hopefully we get more content as the expansion progresses, like PvE / PvP.

Finally, you've got professions. There's a lot of buzz around this, but at the end of the day, it's exactly the same as it's been with a lot of fluff mechanics and QoL thrown in. The actual rewards are exactly the same, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of the system in general.

[Makorus]

If you've played the game since 5.4, then you'll know what to expect. You get the typical sandbox filler content that devolves into just fill the bar, world quests (which I hear are faster than SL at least), and the new "invasions", which are a catchup mechanic that seems mildly interesting, but probably not for the long-term.

Then you've got dragonriding, which seems promising but then the progression seems like it will be done in about a week by most people and it will just devolve into collecting customizations and player-races. Hopefully we get more content as the expansion progresses, like PvE / PvP.

Finally, you've got professions. There's a lot of buzz around this, but at the end of the day, it's exactly the same as it's been with a lot of fluff mechanics and QoL thrown in. The actual rewards are exactly the same, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of the system in general.

Profession having the same reward when you can craft Mythic tier stuff and people can actually comission stuff from you without the risk of scams and then saying "the actual reward is the same" is being really disingenious

[Nymrohd]

Profession having the same reward when you can craft Mythic tier stuff and people can actually comission stuff from you without the risk of scams and then saying "the actual reward is the same" is being really disingenious

Isn't that disingeneous though? You can only craft Mythic tier stuff if you do Mythic tier raiding for the reagents. Oh you may be able to craft them for others who do that but your character is not progressing through that. You can fill five (four if a 2h weapon) slots with Heroic ilvl gear if you grind a lot. And that's nice I guess? But I am not sure how long a progression system it will be.