[TV] She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (*SPOILERS*)

[Ivanstone]

Likely it is the asgardian items they are using. There have been some depictions where those weapons grant power to mortals that made them more durable. Cap wielding Mjolnir is one example, but there was also some asgardian spear in Agents of SHIELD that made the user super powerful.

They’re the Wrecking Crew. The Wrecker was given an asgardian magic crowbar that gave him superhuman strength. He shared his powers with the other three. It’s different in the MCU but it’s probably close enough.

[Endus]

And a good lawyer would argue that it wasn't her physical condition but her actions that led to her being fired. Because she would bias a jury in a case as she is a superhero, that it would be detrimental to the office to keep her employed.

Though, they would likely throw money at her to get her to get her to drop the case.

Yep. She wasn't fired for being green, or having super strength. She was fired for biasing the jury to such a degree their opponent successfully argued for a mistrial. That's actionable. Especially when what biased them wasn't her presence (like it might be with, say, a racist jury facing a black lawyer), but her specific choices of action. Like her boss said; it wasn't even the wrong thing to do, but it got her case mistrialed out, on the first case she's had the lead on. That's at least tentatively cause for firing and political pressure might go further, especially since she wasn't "out" as a superpowered individual before that moment.

Even doing something that garners the office a lot of unwanted press can be considered just cause for dismissal, even if the bad press isn't warranted and the conduct was ethical. It's causing problems for the office, and you're the one at the center, so you're the one who takes the hit. She's fired, not disbarred, and people seem to be confusing the two a bit; you can be fired with cause for plenty of things that don't present an ethical issue before the bar.

[Darththeo]

They’re the Wrecking Crew. The Wrecker was given an asgardian magic crowbar that gave him superhuman strength. He shared his powers with the other three. It’s different in the MCU but it’s probably close enough.

According to wikipedia here, he was blessed by an Asgardian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrecker_(comics)

Courtesy of an Asgardian enchantment placed on him by mistake by Karnilla the Norn Queen, the Wrecker possesses superhuman strength, stamina and durability (bulletproof).

The rest is true. They are just likely going to tie it directly to the items in the MCU. Skipping Karnilla.

[Endus]

It isn't perfect, but it isn't as bad as you are saying either.

I find it ridiculous no one would hire her unless she was blacklisted by her employer (which would be illegal).

I do find it weird that no law firm save one would even consider her though, even on a temporary basis.

She just got very publicly exposed as a super, and had her case mistrialed for supering in the jury's presence (basically), so the chance that this could happen again in the future and cause any future employer to face a similar mistrial is a fairly high risk, and that presents an issue a lot of law firms wouldn't want to take; losing a sure thing your legal team has wrapped up because some cape smashed into the courthouse and Walters greened up to save the day again would get infinitely frustrating, and they (like the DAs office) can't ethically expect her to not save people to protect the case, especially now that people know what she can do (since inaction would now be a choice, where before, there'd be no reason to think she could step in).

I imagine, though, that if anyone was poisoning the well on top of all that, it's Holliway. His firm's massive and he's not particularly ethical and her clients so far are supervillains. Making sure she's stuck without options make his offer a lot more appealing, and his firm has a lot of weight to lean on smaller firms.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Ok, I admit I know little about american law. But I am sure a good attorney could get this guy for the way he terminated her and at least get some hefty severance for her.

In the end he is firing her over a physical condition she got without any fault of her own, like a sickness (technically she has radiation poisoning). That usually does not go as smooth as is shown here.

Which means Jen got fired because of the situation...it had nothing to do with gender. A male ADA would have been fired under the exact same circumstances. If Matt Murdoch had been in Jen's place and done the same... he'd get fired too. If Jen's boss were a woman...she'd have still been fired. Jen's firing and inability to find a new job is a narrative decision to force her to take the job she has now.

There is no implication that it was an attempt to portray "all men as bad".

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Maybe it is what you meant, but it is sure as hell not what you wrote:



Just so you can read again what you wrote. I bolded it for you. You wrote that she won because the Jury was biased. That did not happen. It was a mistrial. If she had won their would not be a mistrial.
The other side argumented that that the jury could not be expected to make a fair unbiased decision going forward because Jen saved their lives. Hence they went for mistrial and the judge granted it.

It is just endlessly fascinating how so many here can claim things did not happen in the show when it clearly happens right on the screen. Matt friggin Murdock could tell you are wrong.

went ahead and checked, I mixed up old white guy's in bar scenes, The guy who hires her said she won before he then had it decaled a mistral, So sure your right on that one line.

It's just every thing else about "the active decisions made to ruin Jen's life" That was made up as no one was doing that at any point.

[JDL49]

Which would have to outline specifically what reasons are either permitted or forbidden to terminate under.
Since we don't have that, saying she was wrongfully terminated means little.

Let me add that firing an civil service employee can take YEARS if it is opposed and in this case almost certainly the union would have wanted to.
As for the justifactions used for her termination I and everyone else are taking what her boss said as the literal reason and had it been taken to
court he would have lost. Here's what would have happened in a more real world.

"Jen we can't have you in court, fair trial and and all that. So it's back to doing research for other DA's and you will never, ever, qualify for a promotion. Sorry, but at least you still have a job." That more gently pushes her out the door but isn't nearly as funny. Score: joke 1, reality 0.

[Raisei]

Jen lost the case of her career due to unfair influence over the jury. The case was correctly decided as a mistrial. Jen’s boss was 100% correct in determining that she’s a liability to the DA’s office. Even if he didn’t fire her, she wouldn’t be able to work as a trial lawyer which is something she wants.

The defendant’s lawyers were 100% correct in asking for a mistrial. It was a fair, accurate assessment of the situation. I can’t and won’t fault them for capitalizing on the situation. Does Holloway have an ulterior motive for hiring Jen? Probably. It could be nefarious. It could be something as simple as promotional. He fairly assessed her legal skills, has an actual legal need that needs filling and it helps that she can’t afford to say no.

Two men make rational decisions and we are shown why they did it. They’re not acting out of malice. They are employers making the best decision for their respective offices.

I am not even saying they were wrong to do any of it. You are quite correct. But what I am seeing is that these roles, the "people in Jen's way, hindering her on her way" are in 95% of all cases played by males in the show.
Sure maybe Titania will take a bigger role in it later on, but for now, every time something bad happens to Jen or she is made to do something she would rather not it is at the hands of a man. Bruce, her boss, Holloway, Dennis, all of them are presented as antagonists in one way or another. This is no accident.

[Darththeo]

Let me add that firing an civil service employee can take YEARS if it is opposed and in this case almost certainly the union would have wanted to.
As for the justifactions used for her termination I and everyone else are taking what her boss said as the literal reason and had it been taken to
court he would have lost. Here's what would have happened in a more real world.

"Jen we can't have you in court, fair trial and and all that. So it's back to doing research for other DA's and you will never, ever, qualify for a promotion. Sorry, biy at least you still have a job." That more gently pushes her out the door but isn't nearly as funny. Score: joke 1, reality 0.

As a Civil service employee, I can tell you I literally seen people fired in weeks to months.
It depends on the contract they have. My contract outlines terminable offenses of which my union will not defend my right to keep working, merely defend me to get paid properly following (which would just be unused vacation time.)

Now if we are talking about this issue, yeah, you are right. It is likely she wouldn't have been terminated.

- - - Updated - - -

I am not even saying they were wrong to do any of it. You are quite correct. But what I am seeing is that these roles, the "people in Jen's way, hindering her on her way" are in 95% of all cases played by males in the show.
Sure maybe Titania will take a bigger role in it later on, but for now, every time something bad happens to Jen or she is made to do something she would rather not it is at the hands of a man. Bruce, her boss, Holloway, Dennis, all of them are presented as antagonists in one way or another. This is no accident.

She is in law. Law is majority male field. It is 2 men for every 1 woman. She is twice as likely to have a man in her way than a woman.

[Geckoo]

The third episode was weaker than i expected, but it was decent.

I liked Blonsky's hearing a lot, the shapeshifting lady was fun and Wong improves any scene.
But Dennis... holy crap. There are ways to portray a dumb asshole and then there is Dennis. Way too exaggerated in my opinion.
About the dance from the credits... cringy as hell.

The prediction about some reactions was actually a fun part too, because it works for both sides. If some of the criticism is about the show being too political, having them portray their own biased expected reactions is a great way to confirm that it is indeed meant to be too political, and that's fine, but the show works best when they don't do that and focus on the dynamics as she-hulk, as lawyer, introducing characters, likeable villains... The show is good when it just tries to be a sitcom with some fun moments involving superpowers but gets bad when they also put too much of their own political views on it.

[Witchblade77]

I am not even saying they were wrong to do any of it. You are quite correct. But what I am seeing is that these roles, the "people in Jen's way, hindering her on her way" are in 95% of all cases played by males in the show.
Sure maybe Titania will take a bigger role in it later on, but for now, every time something bad happens to Jen or she is made to do something she would rather not it is at the hands of a man. Bruce, her boss, Holloway, Dennis, all of them are presented as antagonists in one way or another. This is no accident.

1. you. are. projecting.
2. people helping her are also often male.
3. there are mostly males around her, because she works for a criminal defense law firm. those statistically tend to be overwhelmingly male.
4. Bruce is presented as an ally and a close relative, not just in terms of blood relation, but in terms of closeness of their relationship. her becoming a Hulk is an accident, not intentional act on his part. him helping her get a hang of her hulk? is intentional. Dennis is a coworker most people had at once point. her DA boss doesn't fire her because she is a woman, or because he wants to stand in her way. he GIVES her the case because he trusts she can do it even if Dennis doesn't. her boss fires her for liability reasons and he is shown to feel bad about it, but he has to do it and its entirely understandable. you can substitute different genders in either Jen's or her bosses place and the scene plays out exactly the same way. male bartender is shown to be friendly and sympathetic. antagonistic journalist at the gates of prison is female. the most annoying and antagonistic character in the entire episode 3 is a woman shapeshifter, to the point where you even start feeling sorry for Dennis. I can keep going. you are projecting. you are seeing what you expect to see and interpreting everything through the lens of that expectation, even when it pretty obviously doesn't fit.

P.S. as much of a caricature Dennis is, SO used to work with someone almost exactly like that. used to because that dude finally pissed off a wrong CEO and not even union could manage to keep him hired.

[paxen]

But Dennis... holy crap. There are ways to portray a dumb asshole and then there is Dennis. Way too exaggerated in my opinion.

Beyond how much Dennis is exaggerated or not, I think he fulfills a good function anyway: He's an annoying douche, but apart from ruining work environments he's not actively evil, just deluded. And the show depicts him getting justice, because even if he is deluded and extremely annoying, it doesn't mean you get to take his money and get off freely. I liked that part.

[Jotaux]

Ok, I admit I know little about american law. But I am sure a good attorney could get this guy for the way he terminated her and at least get some hefty severance for her.

In the end he is firing her over a physical condition she got without any fault of her own, like a sickness (technically she has radiation poisoning). That usually does not go as smooth as is shown here.

I can't speak for the US but if this happened in Canada she would probably just be given severance. There's not really cause to fire her because all she did was save the lives of the jurors. The US is a different place though so who knows.

[Raisei]

Which means Jen got fired because of the situation...it had nothing to do with gender. A male ADA would have been fired under the exact same circumstances. If Matt Murdoch had been in Jen's place and done the same... he'd get fired too. If Jen's boss were a woman...she'd have still been fired. Jen's firing and inability to find a new job is a narrative decision to force her to take the job she has now.

There is no implication that it was an attempt to portray "all men as bad".

You are misunderstanding my point. I know the reasons why she got fired.

I am saying that it is very deliberate that her boss, the guy only appearing in one scene to fire her, is a man, when as you correctly say, it could have been a woman just as well. I do not believe that the director made that choice by accident. She gave the part to a guy (an old white male to be precise) because those people are "the enemy" for her and she wants them be seen in as much negative light as possible.

Same with the scene today. There was no reason for the male in the parole hearing being the one to wants to cut it short. It could just as well have been the female loosing her patience with Jen, but it isn't. Why? Because that is what the director decided.

I know it is small things for now, but I still find them noteworthy.

Take as a counter example Miss Marvel. That show manages to portray a female main character without having the need of the entire male world ganging up on her. Kahmala is so much more balanced and interesting because she is shown interacting with all genders in a favourable way. Neither is specifically shown as being worse then the other. The director even managed to poke some fun at cultural stereotypes without becoming insulting or preachy. There is some slight poke at the position of women in Muslim culture, but not to an extent that She-Hulk is complaining about the position of women in any culture.

It is by far the superior show and if She-Hulk had learned from this it could have been so much better. But as I keep saying, the director doesn't want to be better, she shows men in a negative light, because that is how she sees them.

[Jotaux]

But Dennis... holy crap. There are ways to portray a dumb asshole and then there is Dennis. Way too exaggerated in my opinion.

Unfortunately I've met people like Dennis...

[cocomen2]

#manhate continues in episode 3, after all that talk that she much better than Bruce ... four criminals attack her... she goes green... and don't even bothers to catch them... yes let them roam the city and maybe harm some other woman that can't just turn green, so we got lawyer that pretty useless as Hulk-female = 100% in control.


Seems they don't even bother with Abomination model, i mean does all "Hulk" type losing penis after transformation? since this only way how i can explain that SCREAM by black woman when he transformed, i mean in world that full of superheroes,Aliens,magical cratures,mutants.... and she goes "OH MY GOD!! AAAAAAhhhh" at Abomination? for real? or she just forgot that judged subject in super-cage is THE Abomination, ye who else gonna be in superMAX.

[Ivanstone]

I am not even saying they were wrong to do any of it. You are quite correct. But what I am seeing is that these roles, the "people in Jen's way, hindering her on her way" are in 95% of all cases played by males in the show.
Sure maybe Titania will take a bigger role in it later on, but for now, every time something bad happens to Jen or she is made to do something she would rather not it is at the hands of a man. Bruce, her boss, Holloway, Dennis, all of them are presented as antagonists in one way or another. This is no accident.

The majority of men shown are characters who’ve been around for decades back. In the real world men still occupy the majority of positions of power. It’s inescapable that the good and bad things that happen in her life will be because of men. Showing anything else would be dishonest. We’ve yet to see an actual villainy from anyone never mind a man.

Dennis is the only genuine shithead and he’s just a simplistic douche bro. He wouldn’t be out of place as a villain in any number of high school movies. The biggest problem with low rent Biff Tannen is that he’s low rent. He’s still a bit character of little consequence.

Hell even her comic adversary, Titania, only has her powers because of a man (Doom) and her criminal career is enabled by a man (The Absorbing Man).

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

You are misunderstanding my point. I know the reasons why she got fired.

I am saying that it is very deliberate that her boss, the guy only appearing in one scene to fire her, is a man, when as you correctly say, it could have been a woman just as well. I do not believe that the director made that choice by accident. She gave the part to a guy (an old white male to be precise) because those people are "the enemy" for her and she wants them be seen in as much negative light as possible.

This is so ridiculous. If we were to flip the roles...lets say it's Matt Murdoch instead of Jen Walters...and his boss is female...would it be fair for me to assume that they made his boss female just to show how bad and evil women are?

Same with the scene today. There was no reason for the male in the parole hearing being the one to wants to cut it short. It could just as well have been the female loosing her patience with Jen, but it isn't. Why? Because that is what the director decided.

Again, switch the roles of male and female...and apply the same logic as above.

The only way for the show to work and not trigger you...would be if the entire cast were female...that way Jen gets fired by a woman, the parole board guy that has reasonable objections to seeing Blonski get released wouold be a woman. The idiot at the DA would be a woman, her new boss would be a woman, Pug, a man who has thus far been shown to be a decent human being and a compentent attorney, would have to be a woman. Jen's dad, who is very supportive of her...would also have to be a woman...

[Mehrunes]

It is getting kinda boring. Again, who are you to unilaterally decide what is implied in each and every scene of the show? I cannot overstate how ridiculous this argument is. Calling it an argument is already being generous.
You claim there is a right way to interpret a piece of art. Which is just glaringly wrong on all levels. Just stop.

You are literally dying on the hill that you and your little echo choir here have the right to dictate how a piece of art is interpreted. That you can say this with a straight face is amazing.

Except you making claims like how Jen beat Bruce in throwing rocks or that she knocked him with a clap isn't "interpretation", it's "you making shit up" (surprising no one who has ever read your posts in the lore forum). You trying to mask what you're doing under the guise of "It'S mY iNtErPrEtAtIoN" and fifty layers of victim complex over how you're "attacked" over your "interpretation" doesn't change that. Those claims are objectively false. And given how your narrative about how toxic feminist agenda (of how women have their own issues, but you're totally not a misogynist ) is being shoved down your throat rests on those objectively false claims, that narrative collapses on itself. And there's no amount of "interpretation" that's going to make those claims anything but objectively false or glue the pile of rubbish your narrative collapsed into together.

Also, it's a sight to behold to see you lambasting @Endus for "unilaterally deciding what is implied in each and every scene of the show" (where he was quite clearly talking about your objectively false claims, because context is a thing no matter how hard you'd wish it not to be the case) only for you to turn around just a few posts later to try to authoritatively claim how certain scenes are the way they are (which includes such "dreadful" events like a character being a certain gender) because of the director's man-hating agenda. Totally not projecting your patently bizarre hang-ups about women existing there /s

[Darththeo]

#manhate continues in episode 3, after all that talk that she much better than Bruce ... four criminals attack her... she goes green... and don't even bothers to catch them... yes let them roam the city and maybe harm some other woman that can't just turn green, so we got lawyer that pretty useless as Hulk-female = 100% in control.

Please tell me this is sarcasm.

She does not see herself as a super hero.
How is this so hard to understand? She says numerous times that she isn't a super hero.

Do you complain that in Reimi's Spider-man that Spider-man let the robber get away? He totally could have stopped them, and likely been given more money for his trouble. What about in the Amazing Spider-man when Peter doesn't stop the robber or help stop him?