Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Rennadrel]

This the crux. Marketing is the shows downfall.

Shadow of Mordor is a game that took lots of liberties with the story and lore. It did get backlash, including the sexy shelob. Difference is that the developers didn't go around claiming how faithful it was and even made new characters themselves to do what they want with.

If Amazon had gone out from the start with proper marketing, there would still be backlash, but way less. Any show receive backlash so that can't be avoided when it's big enough of a show.

Then the actors and Amazon doubled down on it and started to attack fans. It never works. But they wanted to cash in on the"faithful lotr" hype.

LOTR fans, especially Tolkien purists, aren't vapid and mindless drones like MCU fans. The average Tolkien fan is way smarter and more in tune with what is going on with the IP than any other. We've also seen this deflection playbook a dozen times already with terrible adaptations in the last several years. It didn't work for Ghostbusters 2016, it didn't work for Netflix (TWICE IN THE LAST YEAR!) and it hasn't worked for Amazon either. People aren't stupid and we see what is going on.

[InfiniteCharger]

Ok, I get it. You are the gatekeeper to Tolkien's world and if it is not mentioned in the short stories, songs and poems it cannot exist in that world, particularly strong women (which there are examples of in his works, if not warrior women) or people of differing skin color. Once again it's a classic example of missing the forest because of the trees.

No it is a classic case of this depiction of Galadriel getting bullied as part of the Age of the Trees and being disrespected by Elven society is a wholesale destruction of her character that was above reproach in the books. The fact is that Tolkien empowered this woman from the gate in his stories and therefore Amazon is not doing any better than what was already there in the story. To sit here and argue that Galadriel being slapped around and ignored by other Elves including her nephew as some kind of idiot pest is BETTER than being the wisest and most respected Elf of the realm is just dumb and stupid. It is not and that is just objectively obvious. She wasn't a 'victim' or 'victimized' in Tolkien's actual Lore. So this vicitimization complex that Amazon created is BS as if a woman needs to be slapped around a bit by men in order to be motivated to become better and powerful. LOL. Tolkien didn't write that Amazon did, so who is victimizing women? I can't believe that punching and fighting women and then banishing them forever is some kind of empowerment narrative.

[Rennadrel]

Member when Eowyn snuck into the army to fight among her kin and then ended up killing the Witch King with the help of Merry? I member.

Except that doesn't actually happen in the books, and was a creative liberty that Peter Jackson was heavily criticized for by Tolkien fans. I didn't give a damn because it was one scene in a film series where the weight of the world rest on the shoulders of men. Let her have a moment in it all, it didn't break the overall story and Eowyn isn't some feature character in the scope of Middle Earth. And her father was pretty upset that she disobeyed orders to return home after the gathering of the armies of men.

[Triceron]

Exactly, woke AF, out to trigger the incels.

Um, no, no it's not. Not at all.

Except that doesn't actually happen in the books

It was in the books.

[InfiniteCharger]

Except that doesn't actually happen in the books, and was a creative liberty that Peter Jackson was heavily criticized for by Tolkien fans. I didn't give a damn because it was one scene in a film series where the weight of the world rest on the shoulders of men. Let her have a moment in it all, it didn't break the overall story and Eowyn isn't some feature character in the scope of Middle Earth.

That actually came from the books, though not exactly the same way but generally her killing the Witch King was described in the books during the Battle of Pelennor fields. Her sneaking into combat is in there as well.

[bledgor]

Thinking about the show a day after watching episode 2 and my image of it has gotten worse, think it is only a 4/10 as the only thing of note I can recall is the dwarfs/Khazad-dum looking good, the rest I can barely recall the individual moments. Even the music I can only recall the score of Khazad-dum, the rest is completely forgotten, while most of the key notes of LoTR I can recall and I haven't watched those movies since last December (WoT made me want to watch a good fantasy). Almost every scene I can recall about Elves and Harfoots make me shake my head or slap my head in frustration. Even the scenes with Arondir make me roll my eyes (which to be fair I think the actor did a fine job, but the racist "knife ears" a line that is straight from Dragon Age said by the Southern men and the stupid scene with the hole, ugh bad writing), they just did all the elves dirty in this show and they come across as longer eared humans rather than a transcendent race that is ethereal in nature.

Also Still love all the people throwing out all the ist and phobe attacks on others freely (as a blanket defense for the show no matter what you say) and the mods don't care, while if you say anything remotely snarky back you get infracted.

[Orby]

This very thread would show otherwise. But I know you live in fear of the dreaded "AGENDA!" and need to push as hard as you can against it.

I was wondering where you went, I was hoping that shit would die down... I bring news, it did not! :P

I feel bad cos I have been trying to argue their ignorance, alas resistance is futile it seems. There has been some discussion on the show. requires a lot of wading through the swamp though. There was a huge debate about imdb taking down reviews you missed :P

[InfiniteCharger]

This gives you away as someone to not take seriously.

Did you watch the episodes? Neither a 0 or 1 rating (or a 10) are objective in any sense.

I already explained that such a rating 1 or 2 episodes into a new streaming series means hard pass, not watching any more not interested.
How is that not honest unless you somehow are trying to turn this series into some kind of exercise in judging someones motivation beyond just not wanting to watch the show or liking it much. Plenty people Tolkien just fine. This isn't Tolkien. I respect your right to like the show, but don't tell other people what to like or not to like. And don't gimme that BS that not liking this show is equivalent too being some 'hater'. Why does anybody have to give a flying f*ck about about a show made by some multi billion dollar company? They don't owe them anything. They aren't curing dam cancer. Like any other product if they want people to like it, then make something people like. Otherwise GTFOH.

[InfiniteCharger]

I've been banned for the last 3ish weeks lol Even though some posters think it doesn't happen

Seriously, the thread has just gone in a circle for months. People too juvenile to just accept it isn't something they actually want to watch and should move on. Instead, as is standard for this sub-forum, they'll stick around and just complain ad nauseam.

- - - Updated - - -


Sorry, I didn't read more than this. As I said, nobody should take you seriously with nonsense like this.

As said elsewhere, just move the fuck on if you're not going to watch it.

What I said was stop trying to lecture people about the morality of not liking a dam TV show.


To put it in context, this series has gotten down voted since the first trailer came out.
And that is consistent across all Amazon channels around the world.
So the show comes out and then there are a lot of negative reviews.
That tells you that a lot of people are not interested in or liking this show.
To argue that this is simply a bunch of haters from America is denying the obvious.
And you trying to lecture people about why they should like it or make character judgements if they don't doesn't make it better.
So please stop replying to me with this line of thinking.
Why are you spending so much of your life worrying about what other people like or don't like?

[Fencers]

Amazon is trying to get cute with its inclusion of global viewership. Nice try. What are you, Apple Jr.? LMAO

[InfiniteCharger]

What on Earth are you babbling about... you make an awful lot of assumptions, and manage to create arguments people haven't made out of thin air.

Literally all I said to you was to just move on from something you are clearly not watching/going to watch, based on reviews that are clearly not objective. Yet you got all this from that. Yikes.

Trust me, I don't spend my life worrying about people like you and what you do or do not like.

My bad, I just thought you came flying into this thread pretending to be vanquishing 'haters' and 'racist trolls' without knowing me or anything about me.

How preposterous is that?

[Kreuger]

Is that where the 25 million viewers number comes from?

Yeah

"The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power‘s premiere episodes attracted more than 25 million global viewers on its first day of release, Amazon announced Saturday."

https://tvline.com/2022/09/03/rings-...sode-1-amazon/

[Fencers]

Is that where the 25 million viewers number comes from?

Yes. Amazon self-reported the number to Variety.

Global viewership has never meant a damn thing. You have to win the US market. This was a counter-move by Amazon after HOTD had their second episode eclipse the first and the total views went past 25m.

[Fencers]

Ignoring the "only the US counts" bit, that's a great number.

Is there a breakdown of regions at all?

Not till next week. This is Amazon self-reporting. There are no fast nationals for streaming and VOD.

Nobody records non-US viewership except the companies themselves. Because it is meaningless. The entertainment industry largely only cares about the US market.

[Xath]

Member when Eowyn snuck into the army to fight among her kin and then ended up killing the Witch King with the help of Merry? I member.

The thing about you bigots and racists that can't accept women and black people in this world is that you are really missing one of the main themes of Tolkien's work: diversity and inclusion. The great victories in Middle Earth happened when Men, Elves, Dwarves and Hobbits come together. Look at The Fellowship! Tolkien was woke AF and you guys miss it because of some hang up about women and people of color. Sad really, but in this case even stranger if you claim to be a fan of Tolkien and miss this obvious theme of his works.

You mean what was literally in the book not changed from Tolkien's work? Why do you infantalize women and people of color as though they need the great white male saviors to give them work?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

LOTR fans, especially Tolkien purists, aren't vapid and mindless drones like MCU fans. The average Tolkien fan is way smarter and more in tune with what is going on with the IP than any other. We've also seen this deflection playbook a dozen times already with terrible adaptations in the last several years. It didn't work for Ghostbusters 2016, it didn't work for Netflix (TWICE IN THE LAST YEAR!) and it hasn't worked for Amazon either. People aren't stupid and we see what is going on.

Is this the "way smarter and more in tune with what is going on with the IP" LoTR fan or Tolkien purist on display?

Except that doesn't actually happen in the books.

[Jotaux]

Just finished the first two episodes. I'm hooked but I have one issue. That guy that fell from the sky is probably a wizard but no wizard stepped foot onto middle earth till the third age. I thought it might have been Sauron in disguise tbh. Condensing the timeline makes sense for tv though.

[Xath]

It's weird, because you were agreeing and posting the same line of reasoning yesterday with that same poster, who went full mask off this morning and called shows like this a "full race and culture war." I've been a moderator of this subforum for a decade now, which is fucking insane, and it's exhausting as these posters cycle in and out, year after year, making the same complaints, year after year. I myself am a brown man who grew up in America, and all my pop culture touchstones have been white figures. Including white people "forced" into the roles of brown men and other roles they didn't belong. Hell, a white Russian man played the King of Siam in the King and I. And I love the King and I. The point is that it shouldn't be a big deal - except now that it's the reverse, it is a big deal, largely to white people. Except......it's been happening a long time, including the aforementioned "The Wiz," which came out in 1978, and the backlash to it has really only started in the past 10 years...as a political junkie as well, the dovetailing with the Tea Party's racism and xenophobia is unable to be ignored. It's all culture war bullshit, and it's been deliberately stoked by the likes of Steve Bannon and his ilk.

FWIW, I haven't seen this show yet. I have no opinions of it as to its quality. What I do know is that a black dwarf or a black elf doesn't automatically lower its quality.

The thing is those changes are used as a shield for bad writing. When race bending is done it's often a sign to be wary because it means other parts of the product are substandard and it's being used as a shield against criticism. I get just as annoyed when it happens to characters of other races than white btw All American Death Note comes to mind.

[draynay]

I don't want to get tarred and feathered for this but, for all this talk of “race changing” or “race bending” you guys do know that elves aren’t real?

[BigToast]

You mean what was literally in the book not changed from Tolkien's work? Why do you infantalize women and people of color as though they need the great white male saviors to give them work?

What are you babbling about? You seem triggered by diversity.