Is it time to remove Normal/Heroic dungeons? They are uselesss since M+

[saintminya]

Uh, how about no. Absolutely, definitively no. They're useful in getting to that M+4, and never rendered obsolete even if your main/alt no longer gains anything but a good time from a run.

[Baine]

I know but that's exactly the point. You do it for one or two weeks and then never again.

Many run M0 for the dungeon event. I do.

[Nymrohd]

We are getting crafting back and crafting will be important. Add reagents that drop from different bosses in dungeons and raids (not the ones that define ilvl; thematic reagents like high quality dragon hides from dragons or epic elemental essences from elementals) and allow those reagents to drop in Heroic Dungeons and LFR. People will do matchmaking content if there are adequate rewards. They ALWAYS have in the past. When up till MoP heroic dungeons were a good valor grind, the queues were always short. When you could get decent things from LFR (high chance for legendaries and tons of cosmetics in Legion, Legendary quest progression in MoP and WoD), people did LFR. Just add non-ilvl rewards there. Normal dungeons stay for leveling; loads of people enjoy leveling by doing dungeons. And don't do max-level only, let those become available at X8 level so they can be done over the last couple of levels imo especially by alts.

[DechCJC]

I agree that one of either normal or heroic could be gotten rid of, sure. It does seem a bit superfluous (as you can merge them at max), though I don't really think it matters that much either way and if there are people that enjoy it the way it is then I don't mind keeping it the same.

[Puri]

Normals are absolutely fine and are an integral part of leveling.
Heroics should be merged with m0 and just be queuable. Heroics were only ever relevant at the very first patch and when m0 was not available yet, in later patches open world catchup gear was already outperforming heroic gear in terms of itemlevel and in terms of acquisition speed.

But on the other hand they need a reference difficulty for m+ anyhow (which is probably m0), so the actual effort to make heroic dungeons (just apply a "negative" 30% m+ scaling and reduce itemlevel by x) is close to zero for Blizzard, so why not just keep it.

[talmir]

Remember, just because you personally dont enjoy the content does not mean everyone else agrees.

Normal? I have a blast leveling my characters through there.

Heroic? Yeah, kinda pointless at the end of an expansion, but at the early end its pretty good as you gear up to start doing mythics. Even now when you queue for heroics as a tank or healer the queue isnt that long, so that means people are still doing them for reasons only they know.

M0 is pretty good for a LOT of people. Sure, it doesnt provide the gear m+ gives, but it is stress free and you can just go through at your own pace without the timer stressing you out.

And speaking of the timer: If you dont like it, ignore it. Seriously. Get a key via m0, or from the dude near the vault, and just run that at your leisure. The timer will tick down but it'll just hit zero and then you get your m2 gear. You can do that as many times as your heart desires. Timed mythics are harder, and harder content rewards higher level gear. But here's the trick, you dont even have to do that! You can just get your m2's and then upgrade them with valor. If you want even higher il gear than you can get that way then sorry but you're going to have to engage with the timer. Its the nature of the content.

I mainly do m+'s in the game these days and I personally like the timer. It gives you an extra challenge, and ensures a single dungeon doesnt take all night. I find the challenge of routing and optimizing my gameplay in order to progress to higher keys to be rewarding. But if it does not seem interesting to you, that is ok. Let people have their fun.

[Jennis344]

hi Dreadlordsaintminya's AvatarJoin DateNov 2012LocationTwilight HighlandsPosts804
Uh, how about no. Absolutely, definitively no. They're useful in getting to that M+4, and never rendered obsolete even if your main/alt no longer gains anything but a good time from a run.

[Echo of Soul]

The should remove m+ and return to the TBC/Wrath model instead with badges.

[Garkanh]

lol

you either forgot a massive "/s" there, or this is the most absurd thing i've read in the past weeks, and therefore, i thank you for the laugh.

That just goes to show that you have no grasp on the game overall.

I've been in a casual normal/hc raiding guild since wotlk. It died in BFA. But the decline slowly started in legion.

At the start of mythic+, it was great. But slowly people didn't care about raiding, when you got better gear, faster, spamming mythic+.

After a while, people started leaving the game, because they were tired of doing the same few dungeons over and over, and raiding felt like a waste of time.
Legion kept the guild alive, because atleast people were trying to get most of the mage tower skins, but that all ended in bfa, because the cancer that is m+ was the only worthwhile investment of your time.

And it's shit. I think i've met 2 people irl who actually enjoyed it, and dozens who didn't.

The issue is that it's been 3 exspansions of this now, so those who hate m+ are mostly gone. The m+ community is a tiny, but loud, community.

Atleast cap the ilvl at normal raid ilvl, so hc raiding can survive.

[Deneios]

The should remove m+ and return to the TBC/Wrath model instead with badges.

Then increase the difficulty to cata pre nerf

[Twdft]

You only look at nhc/hc dungeons from a non-casual pov, seeking rewards, and find them pointless to do yourself.

Might come as a shocker but not everyone is like you.

There are people who do like to click a button, wait a bit and have a 100% chance to get into a dungeon without having to persuade anyone to invite them. Heroic dungeons are endgame for some people. Just because you don't think they reward anything of value does not give you the right to take away content from other players.

[Zardas]

Pretty straight forward. Blizzard has destroyed any reason to really do normal/heroic runs even while leveling the amount of exp is a joke to be earned.
So is it time to say goodbye to difficulties that are ignored by like 99% of the playerbase?

Or remove M+ and make Normal same as M0 while heroic can be M+ while removing mythic all togheter.

You have your very subjective view of the world my man. Loot and experience is not the only incentive to do a dungeon, they maybe are for you, but don't put your own prism of everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if more normal dungeons were run than mythic ones.

[Echo of Soul]

There are people who do like to click a button, wait a bit and have a 100% chance to get into a dungeon without having to persuade anyone to invite them. Heroic dungeons are endgame for some people.

Which is why it's so sad that they took that out of WotLK Classic. I was looking forward to playing a bunch of alts, queueing up for dungeons and pimping them out in badge gear. Now I won't play WotLK at all because the "key pushers" got what they wanted and made the dungeon endgame in WotLK exactly like the dungeon endgame in retail. Pretty sickening TBH.

[Sarevokcz]

You have your very subjective view of the world my man. Loot and experience is not the only incentive to do a dungeon, they maybe are for you, but don't put your own prism of everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if more normal dungeons were run than mythic ones.

people run normal dungeons on max level?

TBH I think there is some redundancy between max level normal dungeon and heroic dungeon that makes max level normal dungeon kinda pointless, but on the other hand its not like it concerns me and it doesnt take any dev time away either, since the normal version exists for leveling and scales anyway...

[Loveliest]

I would like to see dungeons be a challenge again...and not a challenge of beating a timer.

Cata proved people don't want harder dungeons. We lost half our guild because people were unable to do dungeons for vp. Most people who complain about timer are people who have awareness issues, can't do mechanics and would downright not be able to do anything hard either way. For these you have normal and hc. For the rest you have M+.

[InsightTimer37]

They should just make the XP/gold reward a bit less than the questing rewards on normal, and scrap heroic difficulty. There is no need for heroic. Have normal and mythic - that is all that's needed.

[Loveliest]

Since I got Shadowlands free by subbing I have been giving it a try. I have horrible gear barely enough to get into the first dungeon on normal. Having run it three times now, I've not gotten a single piece of gear. What is the point of this dungeon? Might as well get rid of it if it can't be used to acquire gear. Feels so bad running a dungeon and getting nothing at all.

You can run a Mythic raid and not get a single piece of loot. Your point?

[Zardas]

people run normal dungeons on max level?

Likely not a lot. But generally in mmorpgs, the majority of player just play 1 or two months at the start of the exception, and then quit until the next one. That's why the levelling process (andl evelling dungeons) are so important.

TBH I think there is some redundancy between max level normal dungeon and heroic dungeon that makes max level normal dungeon kinda pointless, but on the other hand its not like it concerns me and it doesnt take any dev time away either, since the normal version exists for leveling and scales anyway...

Yeah, heroics are in a strange spot. I'd argue that they should scale the heroic just abit down and call them normal, and make the current normal soloable for the people that just want to see the story. As it stands, there is not a lot of incentives in doing heroic instead of normal, whatever you're searching for in the game.

[Lolites]

They should remove mythic+.

That feature single handedly cost the game about 3 million players. *an ssumption, of course.

lol, M+ is probably the most popular feature ever added in wow, just bcs YOU PERSONALY dont like it doesnt mean anybody else agrees with you...

[Gimlix]

You have your very subjective view of the world my man. Loot and experience is not the only incentive to do a dungeon, they maybe are for you, but don't put your own prism of everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if more normal dungeons were run than mythic ones.

Lol do you even believe what you are saying? What is average queue time of NM dungeons? 30 minutes?