SL reminds me MOP

[Palapop]

Legion > Wotlk > BC > Cata > BFA / MoP / SL > WoD mate. They're similar in that regard but I disagree with OP on the rest of the comparisons.

wotlk/MOP > cata/tbc > bfa > wod > legion/shitlands Fixed it for you.

I will NEVER understand why TF people glorify Legion that much as it's the point where everything went downhill in WOW.

daily/weekly chores
endless grinds
rng legendary items
chores, chores, chores, chores...

[Lochton]

wotlk/MOP > cata/tbc > bfa > wod > legion/shitlands Fixed it for you.

I will NEVER understand why TF people glorify Legion that much as it's the point where everything went downhill in WOW.

daily/weekly chores
endless grinds
rng legendary items
chores, chores, chores, chores...

Downhill already started in Cata, and worse in WoD.

Wrath -> Mop -> Legion -> BFA -> TBC -> WoD -> Cataclysm/Shadowlands.

[Makaloff]

No, my logic is following: imagine, that you want to get TWO mounts - Invincible and Nonlootable. Both have 0.1% droprate. What is more effective way to grind them? One after another or doing it in parallel? Imagine, that it can take years to loot any of them. Are you ready to spend another several years to grind second one after looting first one? Imagine, that grinding them in parallel takes too much effort. But YOU HAVE TO DO IT, cuz otherwise you would WASTE TOO MUCH TIME. Time is your resource. It's thing you MISS, if you waste it. That's, why it's called FOMO.

correct me if im wrong but isnt FOMO just for content that has expiracy date? like the slime cat, KSM mounts, glad mounts, CM sets etc? i hate stuff getting removed but i wouldnt call something fomo if its still avaible, even if you need to do hell of a grind to get it. so in short, fomo applies to things that will be unavaible after a certain time, a 0.1% droprate mount isnt fomo, atleast not going by the book.

[Alteiry]

No, my logic is following: imagine, that you want to get TWO mounts - Invincible and Nonlootable. Both have 0.1% droprate. What is more effective way to grind them? One after another or doing it in parallel? Imagine, that it can take years to loot any of them. Are you ready to spend another several years to grind second one after looting first one? Imagine, that grinding them in parallel takes too much effort. But YOU HAVE TO DO IT, cuz otherwise you would WASTE TOO MUCH TIME. Time is your resource. It's thing you MISS, if you waste it. That's, why it's called FOMO.

Fear Of Missing Out has nothing to do with avoiding a time waste, it is literally about entirely missing content because you weren't active during the window where the content was available. Hence the name.

Example: Old 100% drop chance raid mounts getting reduced to 1% drop chance in the next expansion isn't FOMO content, but Ahead of the Curve mounts becoming literally unobtainable after the next patch comes out is.

[Palapop]

Downhill already started in Cata, and worse in WoD.

Wrath -> Mop -> Legion -> BFA -> TBC -> WoD -> Cataclysm/Shadowlands.

You just said that it went worse in WOD and yet you rated Cata below WoD?

I'll NEVER understand why Cata gets so much hate because it was amazing expansion! Not The best. But def not bad. Not at all.

Cata is 100x better than Legion in my eyes.

Gearing was amazing. Class balance was superb! Class DESIGN was WOW!

Compared to Legion chores, chores, chores, chores, chores, chores, chores....

[Lochton]

You just said that it went worse in WOD and yet you rated Cata below WoD?

I'll NEVER understand why Cata gets so much hate because it was amazing expansion! Not The best. But def not bad. Not at all.

Cata is 100x better than Legion in my eyes.

Gearing was amazing. Class balance was superb! Class DESIGN was WOW!

Compared to Legion chores, chores, chores, chores, chores, chores, chores....

There are other factors into it. And there are no chores, you make it your chores, and thus they are.

[RobertMugabe]

wotlk/MOP > cata/tbc > bfa > wod > legion/shitlands Fixed it for you.

I will NEVER understand why TF people glorify Legion that much as it's the point where everything went downhill in WOW.

daily/weekly chores
endless grinds
rng legendary items
chores, chores, chores, chores...

Dude, did you ever actually play MoP? Not that your argument about chores isn't true, but you placed MoP on 1st place despite having the most tedious chores ever added in the game.

Remember when you had to farm the slow ass Golden Lotus faction rep (whose dailies gave almost no rep and every daily quest was quite long), which you were required to do, because getting them to Revered would unlock the dailies for 2 more factions (Klaxxi and Shadopan), which had even more slower daily quests? And you had to do all these 3 reps, because at revered and exalted they had must-have items, recipes etc.? Or in the case of Golden Lotus: you had to farm rep to Revered so you could be eligible for buying Emblems-Type gear, of which 1 piece gear required some ~34 hours of gameplay to earn enough Valor/Justice Points? Not to say that you'd also do them (and other reps) for unlocking bonus rolls and even more crafting recipes. Even when they added the bonus rep tokens it was still a pile of big chores until it became completely irrelevant with the Throne of Thunder patch.

Bonus: You would do these rep grinds too even if you were only PVP-ing or a casual raider.

[Shaqthefat]

Please explain, for what purpose would I need to grind MOP reps now, when they're no longer relevant? They gated that time's rewards behind them, they were relevant within that content patch time frame and they're irrelevant now.

But you can still get the rewards from those reputations. That's the exact opposite of FOMO

[WowIsDead64]

Fear Of Missing Out has nothing to do with avoiding a time waste, it is literally about entirely missing content because you weren't active during the window where the content was available. Hence the name.

Example: Old 100% drop chance raid mounts getting reduced to 1% drop chance in the next expansion isn't FOMO content, but Ahead of the Curve mounts becoming literally unobtainable after the next patch comes out is.

I don't know, how to explain it. So, you imply, that Black Friday sale isn't about FOMO, because goods are still there after it? What is missed - aren't goods themselves. It's "limited time offer" itself, that is missed.

[Lochton]

I don't know, how to explain it. So, you imply, that Black Friday sale isn't about FOMO, because goods are still there after it? What is missed - aren't goods themselves. It's "limited time offer" itself, that is missed.

Having to grind for something so you can get something at a vendor is not limited time, having to farm a loot drop is not limited time. Seasonal key master achievements are limited time, curve achievements are limited time, and the CM rewards were limited time - heck, even World First is limited time.

[czarek]

Who care about anima? I have plenty not complainin. Not needed so much tbh.

[WowIsDead64]

Having to grind for something so you can get something at a vendor is not limited time, having to farm a loot drop is not limited time. Seasonal key master achievements are limited time, curve achievements are limited time, and the CM rewards were limited time - heck, even World First is limited time.

It's normal psychology. Things get old with time. Do you ride old car, use old phone or computer, when newer and more advanced ones are available? I want to live in present, not in the past. I just can't force myself to grind 100ilvl gear, when 252ilvl is available to me. It's like buying 10 years old PC. Yeah, it still works. But today it's irrelevant. So, when new content is released - I abandon old one and start to do new one. But when new one isn't completable within it's life time, because devs overstretch it too much - it starts to be very big problem.

P.S. This discussion starts to become circular. I don't want to repeat exactly the same arguments again, again and again. "Limited time offer" design is bad, because it causes FOMO. Devs should avoid limited time offers or redesign their game to keep whole content relevant.

[Snufflupagus]

Anyone else remember that thread WoWIsDead64 made where something he said made sense?

Yeah me neither.

[Shaqthefat]

P.S. This discussion starts to become circular. I don't want to repeat exactly the same arguments again, again and again. "Limited time offer" design is bad, because it causes FOMO. Devs should avoid limited time offers or redesign their game to keep whole content relevant.

Gear isn't a limited time offer. Gear is a continuously changing cycle. The difference between 100 ilvl gear and 252 ilvl gear is literally just a number, there is no other difference. You aren't missing out on anything by not getting gear in Shadowlands, because you just get gear in Dragonflight.

You're trying to impose your own backwards way of thinking about what gear and progression are upon everybody else playing the game. Isn't that supposed to be the exact opposite of what you preach?

[Lochton]

It's normal psychology. Things get old with time.

Yes? That is what time is about? Aging and progression. Going to go "FOMO" on that too?

Do you ride old car

Yes? For I don't have a problem using a car that works and follows the current regulations of road safety and environment?

use old phone

Yes, I do. If the camera is fine, and it has access to the internet and the tools needed, I hold no issue for using an old phone. It is quite wasteful to upgrade all the time, especially if there's only small outcomes from it *cough* Apple/Samsung *cough*

or computer, when newer and more advanced ones are available?

Again, yes. I have grown up with the understanding that I cannot nor should expect to have everything right away without putting in the needed for it, and I have to prioritize what resources I have, and thus, surprise surprise, my computer is currently 8 years old but upgraded here and there to keep up.

I want to live in present, not in the past.

With your three examples, you want to live in the wallet, not in life. You have a consumer problem but none of that. Then I suggest maybe playing a single timeline game, single release, don't play any games with series or expansions, or DLC.

I just can't force myself to grind 100ilvl gear, when 252ilvl is available to me.

Then don't? You aren't meant to force yourself to do it. You are meant to chase what you would like to unlock and claim, not expect everything to be given in the now, or force yourself.

It's like buying 10 years old PC. Yeah, it still works. But today it's irrelevant. So, when new content is released - I abandon old one and start to do new one. But when new one isn't completable within it's life time, because devs overstretch it too much - it starts to be very big problem.

But in the situation of WoW, the new expansions ARE able to be completed within their lifetime, even for an ultra-casual with understanding that you aren't going to be world first or maybe even curve, can complete the current expansion of WoW - has been like that since Wrath (Was more difficult to be ultra-casual in Vanilla and TBC).

P.S. This discussion starts to become circular. I don't want to repeat exactly the same arguments again, again and again. "Limited time offer" design is bad, because it causes FOMO. Devs should avoid limited time offers or redesign their game to keep whole content relevant.

And with the repeat and loop, limited rewards are a challenge, it is meant to be something you can strive for in the now, in the current - it sucks, yeah, but it is so damn minor to WoW now a days that I wouldn't go in uproar about it - else you would have more complaints about Scarab-Lord. Gear is not FOMO (Except for what, the legendary cloak in MoP?)

[HansOlo]

Because it's end of xpack, it's last patch, we are just a few months away from release of new xpack and...major xpack's flaw still isn't fixed - overtuned mechanic still isn't nerfed enough to be bearable. I talk about Anima grind. Please note. I don't want to do 9.0 or 9.1 content to grind it, because this content is obsoleted. So, don't suggest it. I also don't want to do any hardcore content, such as M+ and raids. So don't suggest them too.

I would want to do following things:
1) Try 9.0 Covenant sanctums content
2) Buy all Covenant transmogs
3) Play my "main" for ilvl progression (i.e. cyphers grind)
4) Get class tier sets (i.e. relics grind)
5) Level new alts (I doubt, that I should do it right now due to unknown state of race/class combinations and free race changes in DF).
6) Play WotLK classic
7) At the end, play some other game just to change scenery

But... I have to grind Anima non-stop. Just because ZM gives amount of Anima, that is barely enough to run mission table. ZM gives about 1-1.5k a day, while mission table requires around 500-600 twice a day. So, I can't collect any spare Anima to invest it's into something else of just skip 1-2 days and do something else. And I'm not ready to abandon mission table. It's great content for casual player. Long-term progression, that is almost passive.

As I already said back at SL's release, that Anima income should have been buffed by 400% in order for it's grind to be bearable. Why can't we do it even at the end of xpack, when amount of "content" no longer matters?

You have attracted a lot of negativtiy and disagreement. This is where you stop defending this idea - and tell yourself "If so many is against my feedback - maybe I was just wrong." And then you move on.

Just a suggestion.

[Lolites]

I have to grind Anima non-stop. Just because ZM gives amount of Anima, that is barely enough to run mission table.

i have alts i use for nothing but mission tables, i only leave covenant on them ONCE a week for world boss, other than that just mision tables for gold, mats, gear, or anima, and they never run out of anima, no grinding needed...
so either you outright lie or you just have no clue wth you are doing

[Nymrohd]

Compared to Legion chores, chores, chores, chores, chores, chores, chores....

What you call chores, I had fun doing?

[WowIsDead64]

Then don't? You aren't meant to force yourself to do it. You are meant to chase what you would like to unlock and claim, not expect everything to be given in the now, or force yourself.

Again. That's exactly what I don't do. And that's exactly my problem. I don't do MOP now. I don't do WOD now. I don't do Legion now. I don't do BFA now. Because I don't want to do it. What I want to do - is listed in my first post. And I can't do it, because amount of time/RNG-gating is exceeding. It should be nerfed by 400%, so it would take 1-2 days per week to grind enough Anima, instead of grinding it for 2 hours every day and still not having enough of it.

- - - Updated - - -

i have alts i use for nothing but mission tables, i only leave covenant on them ONCE a week for world boss, other than that just mision tables for gold, mats, gear, or anima, and they never run out of anima, no grinding needed...
so either you outright lie or you just have no clue wth you are doing

How many missions a day you run? I was also running 2-3 missions a day at the beginning of xpack. Yeah, Anima was self-sustained back then. But now I have all followers and run as many missions, as possible.

[Lochton]

Again. That's exactly what I don't do. And that's exactly my problem. I don't do MOP now. I don't do WOD now. I don't do Legion now. I don't do BFA now. Because I don't want to do it. What I want to do - is listed in my first post. And I can't do it, because amount of time/RNG-gating is exceeding. It should be nerfed by 400%, so it would take 1-2 days per week to grind enough Anima, instead of grinding it for 2 hours every day and still not having enough of it.

Did you start Shadowlands late?

I would want to do following things:
1) Try 9.0 Covenant sanctums content

You can do them now, you've had an ample amount of time to complete even all four covenants.

2) Buy all Covenant transmogs

You can do them now, you've had an ample amount of time to collect the anima needed/missions/quests.

3) Play my "main" for ilvl progression (i.e. cyphers grind)

You can do them now, you've had an ample amount of time to collect everything needed to beat the world content curve.

4) Get class tier sets (i.e. relics grind)

You can do them now, you've had an ample amount of time to collect those relics, meanwhile, you need to put in more effort to get raiding.

5) Level new alts (I doubt, that I should do it right now due to unknown state of race/class combinations and free race changes in DF).

You can do them now, you've had an ample amount of time to level alts, leveling in Shadowlands is more or less a joke and can be completed so fast that buying a boost is basically waste of time and you could use that money on getting three pizzas instead.

6) Play WotLK classic

That has nothing to do with retail/progression and if you have an issue with allocating time between two different games, that is all on you. A game should not remove things or make things more accommodating than it already is for you because you don't have time to play another game (The only things disappearing of rewards in Shadowlands are Curve, Keymaster, PvP title/mount, and people moving towards next expansion).

7) At the end, play some other game just to change scenery

That has nothing to do with World of Warcraft and if you have an issue with allocating time between different games, that is all on you. An MMORPG should not remove things or make things more accommodating than it already is for you because you don't have time to play another game (The only things disappearing of rewards in Shadowlands are Curve, Keymaster, PvP title/mount, and people moving towards next expansion).