1. #67121
    PTR realms are back (but offline) after being gone since last week, I assume this means soontm.

  2. #67122
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, they're not. Rogue Maldraxxians are and Maldraxxus is in a state of civil war at the time. The Covenant is essentially defunct until we go there and beat down that war. The other Covenants aren't even interacting, much less fighting.



    Which is completely different than what you said before, so i fail to see your point.



    So she served him until she realised what she was doing.
    she served him until she decided not to and it was framed as some moral epiphany (she even admits herself that she knew the entire time what she was doing was wrong)
    yeah genocide and domination was all well and good until she realized the slaves would include her which is not even a unique turn around in a plot but is essentially a cliche for the whole "i teamed up with a greater evil because they said they are doing good and you will see...oh wait they are actually going to be evil to me to!!!" plot. Heck the rune carver being the primus was called out almost immediately because the plot much like the lore is extremely shallow.

    i said the jailer had gone through the trouble of making a new servant on azeroth when he already had one and you thought that i meant he went through the trouble of making the lich king and not the very obvious point of making sylvanas a servant when he already had a lich king which he can apparently dominate insanely easily.

    Heck because of what i can only assume is lore that never made it into the game or even an overpriced book we do not see why anduin was the one needed specifically for his plans and why the others werent good enough and the only real thing even remotely interesting linking to past expansions is the fact lothraxion is actually still a spy that is just pretending to be cleansed.

    i get that some people like the story of the expansion but can we at least agree that the multiple leaps they had to do to make any of the lore connect to the already established universe might not be the best??

    heck the writers couldnt even get their own in-universe power scaling "the eternal ones are like titan+" and then a book saying "the eternal ones are the death equivalant to the titans of order" and all of them are created by these first ones who foresaw the entirety of events leading to the maw walkers showing up and thus made it to where only we would activate those waystones because it is all a part of a cosmic pattern which the bad guy is focused on breaking...again...for like the third time in warcraft and once again we are supposed to be left thinking "ya know maybe the jailer wasnt such a bad guy" because the writers have an obsession with making us view the bad guy as some poor misunderstood being that had the right idea but the wrong execution.

    sargeras did nothing wrong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Padwarle View Post
    PTR realms are back (but offline) after being gone since last week, I assume this means soontm.
    it means scribes should start dumping those tomes because prepatch announcement is incoming
    Last edited by Revamp Man; 2022-09-07 at 03:56 AM.

  3. #67123
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    Which is all functionally meaningless drivel that best remains as something scrawled in the margins of the notes of a freshman philosophy major - not as the central narrative of any story that wants to be coherent and impactful.
    Just because you don't like it, that doesn't mean it's not the case.

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    Tbf here, it MAY NOT be, who knows. We got 5 more realms and their zereths to fully explore. But I think the idea is that the Progenitors made the Cosmos, and likely the forces ontop of it. Light and Shadow may have much more specific ideals however...

  4. #67124
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Kind of wish it had been used. Really the Soul Forge was a cool concept that made no sense during ICC and perhaps the only thing that points to them having some vague idea about a Lich King-related villain using the World Soul in the future which would have been some solid planning on their part. I really find it hard to believe they actually DID plan that ofc.

    Also I now have this idea of how it might have been if instead of being blandness incarnate, Zovaal had been themed after James Brown like Bronjahm was, with a Superbad based cover as his theme song. We need a villain with a deep v-neck!
    I severely doubt World Souls were even considered before at earliest Cataclysm, but yeah, it was something that was always vaguely explained. I don't know how long they were considering something Death-related beside the Lich King, but the first seeds of something like the Bald Man were in Legion with Odyn looking into the Shadowlands and Varimathras's intro. I'm unwilling to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt on planning anything further.

    On the characterization point, you really might as well have, a hammy villain can be a lot of fun, and while my preference if we're going to have a Jailer character would be what @Sondrelk alludes to, going cheesy with it would at least be memorable. No one'll say Castlevania's Death is some masterpiece of writing, but the Grim Reaper being a petty swearing jackass is at least not forgettable. Incidentally, the opportunist angle to explain away his involvement in the plot has always been coping, but re: @huth it's pretty decisively thrown out with the Sylvanas book. While he does predict some things more generally - a burning shadow, Sylvanas being Warchief, the sword in the planet is insanely specific. @Sondrelk's angle and what I believe they were going with, but like much of SL declined to commit, was that he knew this would happen because of fate/foresight. Either his fate machine in SoD or the eye from Odyn, empowered by Aman'thul, could have done it. But it wasn't, much like the character wasn't written at all and all his dialogue comes out of an algorythm for villainous one-liners.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

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  5. #67125
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Tbf here, it MAY NOT be, who knows. We got 5 more realms and their zereths to fully explore. But I think the idea is that the Progenitors made the Cosmos, and likely the forces ontop of it. Light and Shadow may have much more specific ideals however...
    Pretty sure all of the Zereths are gone and forgotten (by the devs) the minute we leave the Shadowlands behind.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  6. #67126
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Pretty sure all of the Zereths are gone and forgotten (by the devs) the minute we leave the Shadowlands behind.
    Good, I think the Shadowlands needs to be forgotten.

  7. #67127
    Quote Originally Posted by Padwarle View Post
    PTR realms are back (but offline) after being gone since last week, I assume this means soontm.
    Depends on what, and how much they want to test on the PTR. Possible they only want to test gamebreaking bugs, basic pre-patch stuff, and get some extra data on tuning. In which case we might be looking at a cool one month PTR, which would mean we are still 2-3 weeks away from it going up.

    Really its impossible to say. It could come out today, it could come out a month before the pre-patch launches. We will only know once its out.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  8. #67128
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    i said the jailer had gone through the trouble of making a new servant on azeroth when he already had one and you thought that i meant he went through the trouble of making the lich king and not the very obvious point of making sylvanas a servant when he already had a lich king which he can apparently dominate insanely easily.
    Lich King didn't work. When he corrupted Sylvanas, we had already killed him as well. So you're still wrong either way.

    You keep showing you never actually paid attention to the lore.

  9. #67129
    Dreadlord Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Just because you don't like it, that doesn't mean it's not the case.

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    Tbf here, it MAY NOT be, who knows. We got 5 more realms and their zereths to fully explore. But I think the idea is that the Progenitors made the Cosmos, and likely the forces ontop of it. Light and Shadow may have much more specific ideals however...
    I absolutely love cosmic worldbuilding. In other settings. WoW's stab at it is too pretentious and cynical to enjoy.

  10. #67130
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Depends on what, and how much they want to test on the PTR. Possible they only want to test gamebreaking bugs, basic pre-patch stuff, and get some extra data on tuning. In which case we might be looking at a cool one month PTR, which would mean we are still 2-3 weeks away from it going up.

    Really its impossible to say. It could come out today, it could come out a month before the pre-patch launches. We will only know once its out.
    I agree that we won’t know until it goes up BUT the fact they added an actual build to it shows they intend for it to go live sooner rather than later, if it was going to be weeks or even a month+ before the PTR is live they wouldn’t have added the current build to it as they would only need to take it down and add a more recent build when they’re ready to open it for testing.
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  11. #67131
    New build today or we thinking tomorrow is more likely?

  12. #67132
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkura View Post
    New build today or we thinking tomorrow is more likely?
    I'd guess today. Maybe even PTR too as they came back up with a newer build than Beta is on.

  13. #67133
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    I'd guess today. Maybe even PTR too as they came back up with a newer build than Beta is on.
    PTR would be great for any addon devs who currently have no beta access, so fingers crossed for that!

    (yes, I miss my mountsjournal on the beta QQ)

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  14. #67134
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    I absolutely love cosmic worldbuilding. In other settings. WoW's stab at it is too pretentious and cynical to enjoy.
    I like cosmic lore when it consists of 5 adventurers discovering an ancient Titanic artifact in Uldaman.

    When Elves dwelling on the slopes of a massive tree worship a mysterious moon goddess.

    When stalwart defenders of a kingdom wield the Light to smite their undead foes into dust.

    I absolutely loathe cosmic lore when it sends us to meet the robotic progenitors of Death, or has us imprison gargantuan Lord of the Burning Legion inside a space station, or explains to us the physical properties of magic and why it's all really just some kind of artificial battery juice.

  15. #67135
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I absolutely loathe cosmic lore when it sends us to meet the robotic progenitors of Death, or has us imprison gargantuan Lord of the Burning Legion inside a space station, or explains to us the physical properties of magic and why it's all really just some kind of artificial battery juice.

    ..We were always going to have to deal with Sargeras in some fashion, and yes space is relevant in Warcraft, thats been a thing since BC and well Orcs being from another world


    Also going into Uldaman isn't cosmic, its very...."down to earth."
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2022-09-07 at 07:44 PM.
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  16. #67136
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    ..We were always going to have to deal with Sargeras in some fashion, and yes space is relevant in Warcraft, thats been a thing since BC and well Orcs being from another world
    I think he means treating it with this level of mundanity. You all mocked me when they derive so many ideas from dungeons & dragons lore, when D&D has this exact same Shadowlands problem: You basically can't set a story in any of their established celestial planes because they're just that boring.

  17. #67137
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    PTR would be great for any addon devs who currently have no beta access, so fingers crossed for that!

    (yes, I miss my mountsjournal on the beta QQ)
    I'm torn about PTR, I really want to test DH talents, but having the most fun ever in M+ thanks to cross faction as an alliance player.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  18. #67138
    Beta realms down, should be a new build soon.

  19. #67139
    Banned Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    I'd guess today. Maybe even PTR too as they came back up with a newer build than Beta is on.
    PTR has a likelihood of mid of going up today

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    ..We were always going to have to deal with Sargeras in some fashion, and yes space is relevant in Warcraft, thats been a thing since BC and well Orcs being from another world


    Also going into Uldaman isn't cosmic, its very...."down to earth."
    Space has been relevant since Warcraft 2.

    Also Uldaman is literally a titanic vault.

  20. #67140
    Quote Originally Posted by Padwarle View Post
    Beta realms down, should be a new build soon.
    Builds are cool, but what about a patch instead?

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