Short Summary of Shadowlands Before Dragonflight Comes Out!

[JunktownVendor]

I've noticed that a lot of people didn't really get Shadowlands lore, whether because they took a break or just didn't care much for it, so I thought it would be a good idea to write out a short summary for it, just to get you up to speed before Dragonflight comes out

Minor spoilers for the Sylvanas novel!

This post is also available in video form if you prefer to listen - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFGMZhVlynA

Three important things before Shadowlands' plot happens:

1. Sylvanas killed herself somewhere around the time Deathwing came out of Deepholm, so the very start of the Cataclysm. Here she met The Jailer who promised her that they can break the cycle of life and death together. They both see it as unfair. He was the first Arbiter and saw countless people's lives judged by the rules set in place by the First Ones, that don't take context into consideration and often split families apart of eternity - he wasn't really down with that, which is why after him, a mechanical Arbiter was put in place. A mechanical Arbiter wouldn't get any smart ideas. After Jailer's servants show Sylvanas how families are separated for all eternity, something she cannot handle as family has been everything for her all her life, she is convinced too. She lost her parents and brother in the Second War and the thought of being sent to the Shadowlands where she cannot see them ever even though they are out there broke her. She is also mortified that the Arbiter sent her to the Maw for doing bad things she was forced to do by Arthas, while sending people like Zul'jin who is responsible for the deaths of her family members and countless more, by his own volition no less, to Revendreth where he can get penance. She decides to side with the Jailer, after deliberating it for years though - right around Legion when she became a Warchief.

2. The Dreadlords are created by Sire Denathrius, the leader of Revendreth who is sided with Zovaal... maybe. As you know Dreadlords are very cunning and known for being deceitful so who knows if Denathrius *really* serves the Jailer, but that's a topic for another time. What is important is that Denathrius sent the Dreadlords to all the different cosmological forces as spies, most notably, Disorder. If a creature consumes too much of a type of magic, it will become a being of that type of magic. So the Dreadlords who consumed Fel became literal demons. There was also a void sect of Dreadlords who manipulated Sargeras into starting his great Burning Crusade. They showed him the soul of the world Argus, which is a Titan. They told him that if Argus' soul was infused with Death magic, it could ressurect Sargeras' demons from the Twisting Nether much more quickly than it would have taken them otherwise. This is very important later. The Dreadlords also gave Kil'jaeden the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne which he used to imprison Ner'zhul at the end of Warcraft II Beyond the Dark Portal, but it was made by the Runecarver in Shadowlands, who later turns out to be the imprisoned Primus. It was supposed to be used as a tool for the vessel who would start the Jailer's conquest on Azeroth, but it's made quite clear that all of them (Ner'zhul, Arthas, Bolvar) were acting mostly to their own accord, besides Arthas who was often manipulated by Ner'zhul.

3. Now you remember that I said that Argus was infused with Death magic. Well, when we killed him in Legion, that broke the Arbiter because a being such as Argus was not meant for the Shadowlands (the Titans who are beings of Order have their own realm of existence) but being infused with Death he became a creature of Death, and the breaking of the Arbiter caused all souls to be sent the Maw instead of their rightful afterlife. This empowered the Jailer and Sylvanas a looot.

So, to empower the Jailer (and herself), the Jailer instructed Sylvanas to cause as much death as possible, thus the Fourth War began after Legion which is central to most of the plot of BfA. After BfA, she goes up to the Icecrown Citadel, fights Bolvar, and breaks the Helm of Domination. The Helm of Domintion is tied to the Shadowlands and every time you break an artifact of power, that power goes back to where it came from. A surge of energy burst from the Helm after it was destroyed and it literally broke the barrier between Azeroth and Shadowlands.

Now what you need to know about are the Sigils of Shadowlands. There are five of them - one for each of the covenants + one for the Arbiter. You need them all to open a way to a place called Zereth Mortis. Zereth Mortis is a literal "Cornerstone of Death", the place where the First Ones made the whole of Shadowlands. At the very heart of it lies the Sepulcher of the First Ones, which is kind of a nexus point between all six Zereth realms (one for each cosmic power). The Jailer wanted to use the Sepulcher to establish his own rules of reality. He also needed the soul of Azeroth, which is a world-soul with a lot of potential to be used as fuel for something like that. But first, the Sigils.

As he couldn't personally get the Sigils himself without going on a huge offensive, he needed pure souls that he could send to each of the realms that would gather the Sigils in surgical precision assaults. To this end, he told Sylvanas that she should choosy worthy people of Azeorth. She chose Baine Bloodhoof, Anduin Wrynn, Jaine Proudmoore, Thrall and Tyrande Whisperwind. All of them got set free in the intro for the Maw, except Anduin. All the stuff in 9.0 happens - covenant campaigns and the attack on Castle Nathria where Prince Renethal binds Denathrius inside Remornia (Denathrius' sword), hoping to give him penance as all souls in Revendreth get. During 9.0 Sylvanas tried to convince Anduin to join them as she saw her brother in him. However when all else failed, Anduin was completely dominated by the Jailer using Domination Magic, which is a twisted form of the Language of the First Ones. It was made by the Primus as a means to imprison Zovaal when he wanted to reshape Reality back when he was just the Arbiter. He also got a sweet new weapon called Kingsmourne that was made with the soul of Arthas. This is where 9.1 happens.

Anduin goes on to Elysian Hold and gets the Sigil of Kyrestia. Sylvanas launches an assault on Ardenweald and gets the Sigil from there, Denathrius gave his Sigil to the Jailer at some point before Shadowlands, and we find the Sigil of the Primus, an investigation that leads us to Torghast where it is revealed that the Runecarver is the Primus. Since we have the Sigil with us, Zovaal takes it from us pretty easily. Now all that was left was the Sigil in Oribos.

But before that, some semblance of order is brought tot he Shadowlands. The Kyrian change their philosophy of wiping memories, the Maldraxxi finally have some order after the whole civil war, Revendreth is much more stable and in Ardenweald we finally get an answer as to why Elune let the Teldrassil burning happen - she sensed the drought in Ardenweald and let the burning happen because she thought the souls of the kaldorei there would help her sister - The Winter Queen, and Ardenweald. It is also revealed that Elune is a member of the Pantheon of Life. Tyrande also lets go and is cleansed from the Night Warrior's power that could have easily killed her eventually.

Another big thing that happens is that the Dreadlords take Remornia, which still has Sire Denathrius bound inside, and take him... someplace. We still don't know where he is or what he plans to do, but it's safe to assume he will come back with a vengeance.

Before the Jailer tries to strike Oribos, the covenants unite and launch an assault at the very heart of Torghast - the Sanctum of Domination. We get to the very top of Torghast and fight Sylvanas, but before we can beat her, the Jailer sends out chains to Oribos. We chase after them on these chains, eventually ending up in the Arbiter section of Oribos, where we actually lose and the Jailer manages to obtain the last Sigil and also gets a sweet new armor. He spouts about how everyone will serve him. Sylvanas bowed to never serve anyone after the shit she went through with Arthas, and Jailer assured her before that they are partners, equal. So she sends an arrow at him in protest. Obviously it wasn't gonna do anything, it was a sign of protest. The Jailer then tells her that it's a pity, but he did help her get something that was his (the Arbiter's Sigil, he used to be the first Arbiter), so he gives her back the part of her soul that Frostmourne took and leaves for Zereth Mortis.

We manage to slowly reforge the five sigils and go to Zereth Mortis where we chase after him and Anduin. We manage to free Anduin, beat the Jailer using the reforged Helm of Domination - now called the Crown of Wills that is able to resist the Jailer's Domination magic which is like 80% of why he's so powerful, and we also make a new Arbiter - Pelagos from Bastion. He vowes to never send souls to the Maw ever again. Then comes the judgement of Sylvanas. Instead of judging her himself, he lets Tyrande do it. She sends her to the Maw where she will have to free every single soul that was ever sent there, back to the Arbiter, where he will judge them. Sylvanas jumps into the Maw and that's that.

In 9.2.5 we get some nice epilogue stories - Undercity is cleansed of the Blight and a new leadership is put in place consisting of figures high in the Forsaken society. Calia Menethil is also brought into the fold, while kaldorei Dark Rangers are allowed to return to the Alliance if they so wish. Anduin visits Sylvanas in the Maw where they talk for a bit and we find out that Anduin feels intense guilt over everything the did while Dominated. And lastly, the Winter Queen gives Tyrande a seed empowered by saved kaldorei souls that can be used to plant a new World Tree.

Regarding what might come next, there seems to be a confirmation of a Seventh power existing and that it stands in opposition to the six ones we know of. In essence, it could just be two cosmic forces and the six could just be aspects of the first one, while the second one stands in opposition. That's it for the story of Shadowlands, hope this cleared some stuff up.


If you have any questions feel free to ask

[Baharroth]

Thank you for this! As someone who didn't play a lot during this expansion nor follow the story this was a very nice read

[JunktownVendor]

You're welcome I feel like a lot of people missed or discarded the xpac entirely while it did have some nice stuff to bring to the table, so I figured I'd chew it all down to the basics and post it

[Vonazak]

Shadowlands had so much potential. I disliked everyone in the pantheon being a robot. And Zovaal being such a boring character.

Now, it ended, and hopefully shares the same fate of Medan

[Villager720]

1. Sylvanas killed herself somewhere around the time Deathwing came out of Deepholm, so the very start of the Cataclysm. Here she met The Jailer who promised her that they can break the cycle of life and death together. They both see it as unfair. He was the first Arbiter and saw countless people's lives judged by the rules set in place by the First Ones, that don't take context into consideration and often split families apart of eternity - he wasn't really down with that, which is why after him, a mechanical Arbiter was put in place. A mechanical Arbiter wouldn't get any smart ideas. After Jailer's servants show Sylvanas how families are separated for all eternity, something she cannot handle as family has been everything for her all her life, she is convinced too. She lost her parents and brother in the Second War and the thought of being sent to the Shadowlands where she cannot see them ever even though they are out there broke her. She is also mortified that the Arbiter sent her to the Maw for doing bad things she was forced to do by Arthas, while sending people like Zul'jin who is responsible for the deaths of her family members and countless more, by his own volition no less, to Revendreth where he can get penance. She decides to side with the Jailer, after deliberating it for years though - right around Legion when she became a Warchief.

Lots of errors and speculation in this passage. We do not know why Zovaal turned against his duties, nor do we know that he was motivated by his disagreement with "rules" set by the First Ones on how to judge souls. All we know, motivationally speaking, is what he tells us right before he dies, and it's that he doesn't think a divided cosmos can stop "what is to come".
That's it.
Sylvanas is told that families aren't put together by Zovaal's servants but we've seen examples of the opposite (the married couple in Ardenweald being a prime example) which is all to say, the Jailer lies regularly to Sylvanas in his pitch to get her on side. He tells her what she needs to hear, such as the cycle of life and death is unfair/broken but he doesn't really feel that way based on his actual actions.
Also, we have no idea what the Arbiter following Zovaal was like - she may have only appeared "robotic" but was just a personable as all other Eternal Ones we've seen thus far. There's no evidence to your claims here. Indeed, even her servants in Oribos, who look robotic, often demonstrate personality such as the attendant who is rather dower about opening anima gates for you.

2. The Dreadlords are created by Sire Denathrius, the leader of Revendreth who is sided with Zovaal... maybe. As you know Dreadlords are very cunning and known for being deceitful so who knows if Denathrius *really* serves the Jailer, but that's a topic for another time. What is important is that Denathrius sent the Dreadlords to all the different cosmological forces as spies, most notably, Disorder. If a creature consumes too much of a type of magic, it will become a being of that type of magic. So the Dreadlords who consumed Fel became literal demons. There was also a void sect of Dreadlords who manipulated Sargeras into starting his great Burning Crusade. They showed him the soul of the world Argus, which is a Titan. They told him that if Argus' soul was infused with Death magic, it could resurrect Sargeras' demons from the Twisting Nether much more quickly than it would have taken them otherwise. This is very important later. The Dreadlords also gave Kil'jaeden the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne which he used to imprison Ner'zhul at the end of Warcraft II Beyond the Dark Portal, but it was made by the Runecarver in Shadowlands, who later turns out to be the imprisoned Primus. It was supposed to be used as a tool for the vessel who would start the Jailer's conquest on Azeroth, but it's made quite clear that all of them (Ner'zhul, Arthas, Bolvar) were acting mostly to their own accord, besides Arthas who was often manipulated by Ner'zhul.

It is never stated that Argus was infused with death magic to help disorder beings reform in the Twisting Nether more quickly, nor that Sargeras was aware the dreadlords were funneling death magic into Argus.

The Helm of Domintion is tied to the Shadowlands and every time you break an artifact of power, that power goes back to where it came from. A surge of energy burst from the Helm after it was destroyed and it literally broke the barrier between Azeroth and Shadowlands.

This is also conjecture at best and is quickly dismantled by the fact that Frostmourne was destroyed in the exact same spot and didnt rupture reality. We don't know why the Helm of Domination shattered the sky.

The Kyrian change their philosophy of wiping memories, the Maldraxxi finally have some order after the whole civil war, Revendreth is much more stable and in Ardenweald we finally get an answer as to why Elune let the Teldrassil burning happen - she sensed the drought in Ardenweald and let the burning happen because she thought the souls of the kaldorei there would help her sister - The Winter Queen, and Ardenweald.

Also conjecture. Elune doesn't state she allowed Teldrassil to burn; all she confirms is that she ensured the souls from Teldrassil went to Ardenweald (or at least would have if not for the Maw getting everything at that time) to try to help the realm/Winter Queen.

Pelagos from Bastion. He vowes to never send souls to the Maw ever again.

Not accurate - he commits to never sending souls directly to the Maw without a chance for redemption in Revendreth. The Maw is still potentially going to receive souls in the future.

In 9.2.5 we get some nice epilogue stories - Undercity is cleansed of the Blight and a new leadership is put in place consisting of figures high in the Forsaken society.

Only the top of the Undercity is cleansed, meaning the Ruins of Lordaeron - not the Undercity proper.

Anduin visits Sylvanas in the Maw where they talk for a bit and we find out that Anduin feels intense guilt over everything the did while Dominated.

Inaccurate - He says he feels guilty because he seemed to enjoy the bad he was doing while Dominated and cannot rule out that this wasn't purely him/not Domination.

And lastly, the Winter Queen gives Tyrande a seed empowered by saved kaldorei souls that can be used to plant a new World Tree.

It is never stated what the seed is for, beyond a future for the night elves.

[Lochton]

If you have any questions feel free to ask

A few hiccups but a good attempt at boiling it down for people who didn't follow it, or play through it.

If you are a roleplayer of common nature, it would be something like this.

1.: Anduin is taken!? Where is he?!
2.: Winged creatures of darkness and the scourge are back!?
3.: Fight off the scourge while the champions solve the issue beyond the rift.
4.: Messengers return giving very little information.
5.: Anduin is where?!
6.: A victory assured for Azeroth!
7.: Messengers return giving very little information.
8.: They did what?!
9.: Another victory for Azeroth!
10.: WHY?! KILL HER!
11.: The Scourge is acting weird!
12.: Messengers return giving very little information.
13.: They went where? He did!?
14.: The Scourge is acting up!
15.: Anduin has been saved?!
16.: Rift closes.
17.: Messengers return giving very little information.
18.: Another victory for Azeroth!
19.: Messengers return giving very little information.
20.: Anduin not coming back?!
21.: Secret meetings happening!
22.: Bolvar returns to give us a complete summary.
23.: So we're safe?
24.: Champions return celebrated.
25.: Not really. Scourge is still an issue.
26.: Better repair things and get resources, we have been struggling for some years.
27.: Three years pass.
28.: Messengers return giving very little information.
29.: So many dragons!?
30.: Better pack up and get going, champions!

[JunktownVendor]

Lots of errors and speculation in this passage. We do not know why Zovaal turned against his duties, nor do we know that he was motivated by his disagreement with "rules" set by the First Ones on how to judge souls. All we know, motivationally speaking, is what he tells us right before he dies, and it's that he doesn't think a divided cosmos can stop "what is to come".
That's it.
Sylvanas is told that families aren't put together by Zovaal's servants but we've seen examples of the opposite (the married couple in Ardenweald being a prime example) which is all to say, the Jailer lies regularly to Sylvanas in his pitch to get her on side. He tells her what she needs to hear, such as the cycle of life and death is unfair/broken but he doesn't really feel that way based on his actual actions.

-Zovaal's motivations are made very clear in the Sylvanas novel. She is literally shown that a creature can get what the First Ones would consider bliss, however ending up separated from its family forever. This example is what the community likes to call the Lava Eel.

Also, we have no idea what the Arbiter following Zovaal was like - she may have only appeared "robotic" but was just a personable as all other Eternal Ones we've seen thus far. There's no evidence to your claims here. Indeed, even her servants in Oribos, who look robotic, often demonstrate personality such as the attendant who is rather dower about opening anima gates for you.

-The Arbiter after Zovaal is literally called The Machine of Death plenty. When Pelagos became the Arbiter, no one called him The Machine of Death or said that The Machine of Death was fixed.

It is never stated that Argus was infused with death magic to help disorder beings reform in the Twisting Nether more quickly, nor that Sargeras was aware the dreadlords were funneling death magic into Argus.

-In Legion, Velen literally said that Argus was corrupted beyond redemption to regenerate the Legion faster. We know that the dreadlords filled it with Death magic, hence the corruption is the Death magic. I never said Sargeras was aware that they were specifically using Death magic, but that he was aware that they were doing something.

This is also conjecture at best and is quickly dismantled by the fact that Frostmourne was destroyed in the exact same spot and didnt rupture reality. We don't know why the Helm of Domination shattered the sky.

-It has been said in the lore that when an artifact of power is destroyed, that power goes back to its origin. While it's not explicitly said, Frostmourne may have damaged the Veil, but the Helm finally broke it.

Also conjecture. Elune doesn't state she allowed Teldrassil to burn; all she confirms is that she ensured the souls from Teldrassil went to Ardenweald (or at least would have if not for the Maw getting everything at that time) to try to help the realm/Winter Queen.

-If Elune helped the elves, they wouldn't have all died and then went to the Maw. She thought that their deaths means more souls for Ardenweald. Elune is not really known for taking/rerouting elf souls, so I don't know what you really mean by that.

Not accurate - he commits to never sending souls directly to the Maw without a chance for redemption in Revendreth. The Maw is still potentially going to receive souls in the future.

-Sylvanas is literally sent to retrieve all souls from the Maw. Not the souls she sent there - all the souls, until she is the only one left there.

Only the top of the Undercity is cleansed, meaning the Ruins of Lordaeron - not the Undercity proper.

-Undercity proper was not even blighted, only the surface section.

Inaccurate - He says he feels guilty because he seemed to enjoy the bad he was doing while Dominated and cannot rule out that this wasn't purely him/not Domination.

-It's still guilt over the things Anduin has done, I don't really see the disagreement here.

It is never stated what the seed is for, beyond a future for the night elves.

-It's a seed, what do you think it's for? The hinting to it going to Dragon Isles comes from the fact that this was around the time Dragonflight and Merithra is said to know the perfect place for the seed to go.

[Aucald]

-Zovaal's motivations are made very clear in the Sylvanas novel. She is literally shown that a creature can get what the First Ones would consider bliss, however ending up separated from its family forever. This example is what the community likes to call the Lava Eel.

This information is coming from Zovaal directly as a character, who has cause to both misrepresent and outright lie to Sylvanas to get her on his side. The operant question to ask yourself is whether or not Zovaal can be trusted at his word, and if so, to what degree would he try to subvert the actual truth to lionize himself?

-The Arbiter after Zovaal is literally called The Machine of Death plenty. When Pelagos became the Arbiter, no one called him The Machine of Death or said that The Machine of Death was fixed.

The "Machine of Death" phrase isn't generally applied to the second Arbiter, but rather the actual process of dead souls traveling to Oribos to be judged and sent on to a specified afterlife by that Arbiter. All of the Shadowlands are generally considered the "Machine of Death," not just the Arbiter.

[JunktownVendor]

Shadowlands had so much potential. I disliked everyone in the pantheon being a robot. And Zovaal being such a boring character.

Now, it ended, and hopefully shares the same fate of Medan

To be fair, humans, gnomes, and dwarves began as "robots" in WoW. It's not really anything new. But I really doubt Shadowlands would get decanonized. Especially if Dragonflight deals with the Realms of Life in any meaningful way, which from teasers from Zereth Mortis seems like it will.

- - - Updated - - -

This information is coming from Zovaal directly as a character, who has cause to both misrepresent and outright lie to Sylvanas to get her on his side. The operant question to ask yourself is whether or not Zovaal can be trusted at his word, and if so, to what degree would he try to subvert the actual truth to lionize himself?

The main reason why I took him at his word is because he could have simply done some Domination and be done with it. He specifically tried to get Sylvanas to his side by non-violent means. In either case, Zul'jin was still in Revendreth while she was sent to the Maw. As Wanda would say: "that doesn't seem fair".

The "Machine of Death" phrase isn't generally applied to the second Arbiter, but rather the actual process of dead souls traveling to Oribos to be judged and sent on to a specified afterlife by that Arbiter. All of the Shadowlands are generally considered the "Machine of Death," not just the Arbiter.

Even if we take that to mean the process in general, the second Arbiter was said to be devoid of will and also constructed by the Eternal Ones.

[Aucald]

The main reason why I took him at his word is because he could have simply done some Domination and be done with it. He specifically tried to get Sylvanas to his side by non-violent means. In either case, Zul'jin was still in Revendreth while she was sent to the Maw. As Wanda would say: "that doesn't seem fair".

Domination failed him with Ner'zhul, Arthas, and Bolvar, so he likely thought (probably correctly) that he would also be unable to control Sylvanas via Domination just like with the successive Lich Kings. Sylvanas' visions of the Shadowlands were also very obviously curated to play on her existing prejudices - like with Zul'jin, who in life did nothing that would cause him to deserve the Maw, and/or random beings seemingly separated from their loved ones for unknown reasons. Fair or not, or even imaginary or not, what Sylvanas saw couldn't be said to be a good representation of the Shadowlands as a whole.

Even if we take that to mean the process in general, the second Arbiter was said to be devoid of will and also constructed by the Eternal Ones.

She was devoid of will to ensure she didn't go Zovaal's route, yes. That doesn't really make her an automaton, though; and both she and Zovaal were constructed in their own right (as are all the Eternal Ones).

[JunktownVendor]

Domination failed him with Ner'zhul, Arthas, and Bolvar, so he likely thought (probably correctly) that he would also be unable to control Sylvanas via Domination just like with the successive Lich Kings. Sylvanas' visions of the Shadowlands were also very obviously curated to play on her existing prejudices - like with Zul'jin, who in life did nothing that would cause him to deserve the Maw, and/or random beings seemingly separated from their loved ones for unknown reasons. Fair or not, or even imaginary or not, what Sylvanas saw couldn't be said to be a good representation of the Shadowlands as a whole.

But she was allowed to see anyone she wanted to see. She just had to give any name and she would be taken there. He didn't lie about Zul'jin since we saw him ourselves, so I don't think he would have lied about others as well or give her a mirage of sorts. Shadowlands has been shown as not ideal as well, considering there are aspects of it that even the Eternal Ones conceded were not the best (souls going into the Maw, removal of memories without choice in Bastion, elitism in Revendreth etc). It's not a perfect place and Zovaal, while his means were not the best, did have some points. He's like a cosmic Illidan.

About her getting Dominated, he still could have taken control of her if he wished when she was there. He did it with Anduin, but only as a last resort after three previous heralds were unsuccessful. He seems like the type of creature to want acknowledgement that he was right. He doesn't just want things to go his way, he wants others to see it. But if they don't, he's not above just totally controlling them, if push comes to shove.

She was devoid of will to ensure she didn't go Zovaal's route, yes. That doesn't really make her an automaton, though; and both she and Zovaal were constructed in their own right (as are all the Eternal Ones).

While the Eternal Ones were all constructed, the second Arbiter was constructed by the other Eternal Ones instead of the First Ones, the same Eternal Ones who stubbornly stuck to the vision of the First Ones for an extremely long amount of time.

[TheAngryGazebo]

I really appreciate you writing this up. Even though I played through the whole of Shadowlands content, seeing it laid out like this actually shows me that it's not that the story of Shadowlands itself is terrible, just how it was presented to us. Pieces came to us in fragments over such a long span of time, it was hard to keep the plot and character's motivations together.

And while there are certainly aspects of the story I don't prefer, I can at least see what they were _trying_ to do with the story here.

[Aresk]

Shadowlands had so much potential. I disliked everyone in the pantheon being a robot. And Zovaal being such a boring character.

Now, it ended, and hopefully shares the same fate of Medan

With regards to the robot portion, while their physical forms were mechanically constructed, the Pantheon are also represented by their souls, which are something other than the robotic forms that they inhabit. Specifically, the Prototype Pantheon is described as being "bereft of the cosmic spirits of the Eternal Ones" and "incomplete host bodies." They also seemed much weaker than the actual Eternal Ones, further indication that the Eternal Ones are something beyond simply these host shells. It seems very similar to the titans, which came from planets and infused with souls that, after their bodies perished, could be caught and corrupted by Sargeras.

She was devoid of will to ensure she didn't go Zovaal's route, yes. That doesn't really make her an automaton, though; and both she and Zovaal were constructed in their own right (as are all the Eternal Ones).

I'm curious what differentiates a mechanical being from an automaton if it isn't will. Also, see above regarding Eternal Ones being more than just the constructed shells.

[Aucald]

But she was allowed to see anyone she wanted to see. She just had to give any name and she would be taken there. He didn't lie about Zul'jin since we saw him ourselves, so I don't think he would have lied about others as well or give her a mirage of sorts. Shadowlands has been shown as not ideal as well, considering there are aspects of it that even the Eternal Ones conceded were not the best (souls going into the Maw, removal of memories without choice in Bastion, elitism in Revendreth etc). It's not a perfect place and Zovaal, while his means were not the best, did have some points. He's like a cosmic Illidan.

About her getting Dominated, he still could have taken control of her if he wished when she was there. He did it with Anduin, but only as a last resort after three previous heralds were unsuccessful. He seems like the type of creature to want acknowledgement that he was right. He doesn't just want things to go his way, he wants others to see it. But if they don't, he's not above just totally controlling them, if push comes to shove.

He didn't need to lie about Zul'jin - his presence in Revendreth worked to confirm Sylvanas' own prejudices against the Amani, as she thought he didn't deserve atonement because she hated his people. Her contrast between his fate and hers, however, was a lie of omission on Zovaal's part, as Sylvanas wasn't sent to the Maw by the Arbiter, but was rather sent there directly by Zovaal himself, who was actively interfering with her death. Zovaal just let Sylvanas put two and two together herself, without revealing his own complicity. Similarly, she couldn't mention the random lava eel by name, either - so she was shown an afterlife that also just so happened to conform to what Zovaal was trying to convince her of. Similarly, we also know that the Arbiter didn't judge Arthas himself to inhabit the Maw - he was thrown there by Devos and Uther, skipping any judgment by the Arbiter entirely. All in all, her experience of the Shadowlands was still curated to maximize Zovaal's influence on her decisions, quite successfully.

Zovaal also failed to Dominate Anduin in the end - even with the added benefit of Kingsmourne and a shard of Arthas' fractured soul. He was able to finally gather up his will during the raid encounter at the Sepulcher and wrench Kingsmourne apart, dispelling the Jailer's Domination over him completely. It's very likely any attempt he made to do the same with Sylvanas would've ended in failure, probably even more quickly, as Sylvanas' will was likely stronger than Anduin's given both her nature as an undead banshee and just her nature as a person.

While the Eternal Ones were all constructed, the second Arbiter was constructed by the other Eternal Ones instead of the First Ones, the same Eternal Ones who stubbornly stuck to the vision of the First Ones for an extremely long amount of time.

I think it is more likely the Eternal Ones didn't make the second Arbiter themselves but rather sent Zovaal's anima on to the foundries in Zereth Mortis where a new vessel could be fabricated, one that according to the Primus would be "dispassionate and just." Since we know Zovaal, and then the Arbiter made from Pelagos' soul and essence were made in the Crypt of the Eternal, it stands to reason that the second Arbiter likely had a similar origin. We also know that the role of Arbiter requires a very specific vessel to fulfill, one that is likely beyond the Eternal Ones' means to create directly - hence why they didn't replace the second Arbiter as soon as it was convenient to do so.

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I'm curious what differentiates a mechanical being from an automaton if it isn't will. Also, see above regarding Eternal Ones being more than just the constructed shells.

"Devoid of will" here doesn't denote she was devoid of overall desire or personality, more devoid of will-to-power - or in this case, the kind of ambition and recklessness that defined Zovaal as Arbiter. The Primus specifically refers to the second Arbiter as "dispassionate," not robotic or an automaton, and her work required no small degree of empathy when it came to judging the content of a soul's character and/or the rationale behind its many actions in life. I don't think any of the Eternal Ones are actually tantamount to robots, either, despite the claim being made frequently. They are fabricated constructs, yes; but they are alive and possess their own selfdom inasmuch as regular people do. In that way, they're a lot like the Titanic Keepers, who were artificially constructed by the Titans but yet are very obviously alive and fully sentient, as much an individual as any Azerothian is.

[Villager720]

-Zovaal's motivations are made very clear in the Sylvanas novel. She is literally shown that a creature can get what the First Ones would consider bliss, however ending up separated from its family forever. This example is what the community likes to call the Lava Eel.

It was shown to her by the valkyr, servants of Zovaal, who were portraying events as needed to convince her. We don't actually know why that lava eel was there or who sent it there. All we know is that it is there and what the valkyr tell her. Everything shown to Sylvanas was done via a lens of manipulation. If you'd been paying attention, you'd notice a myriad of inconsistencies with what we've seen in the Shadowlands with how the Jailer portrays it to Sylvie.

The Arbiter after Zovaal is literally called The Machine of Death plenty. When Pelagos became the Arbiter, no one called him The Machine of Death or said that The Machine of Death was fixed.

'The Machine of Death' refers to the whole system/function of the Shadowlands - not solely the Arbiter. And as a further counter to your original assertion, all the Eternal Ones are shown to be robots, created by architects in Zereth Mortis - but they're no unthinking. They're not automa. Thus to assume the second Arbiter was is foolish.

In Legion, Velen literally said that Argus was corrupted beyond redemption to regenerate the Legion faster. We know that the dreadlords filled it with Death magic, hence the corruption is the Death magic. I never said Sargeras was aware that they were specifically using Death magic, but that he was aware that they were doing something.

Im not arguing that Argus wasn't corrupted and used to help the Legion, I'm arguing that how you presented some of the details within were inaccurate. You said

They showed him the soul of the world Argus, which is a Titan. They told him that if Argus' soul was infused with Death magic, it could ressurect Sargeras' demons from the Twisting Nether much more quickly than it would have taken them otherwise.

so claiming now that you "never said Sargeras was aware" is ... not true. No where during Legion was it ever stated it was Death magic reforming demons (its implied it was merely the power/energy of a world soul), or that it was dreadlords leading the whole escapade.

It has been said in the lore that when an artifact of power is destroyed, that power goes back to its origin. While it's not explicitly said, Frostmourne may have damaged the Veil, but the Helm finally broke it.

Where was it said? Do you have any other examples of an artifact breaking open a portal to it's cosmic dimension?

If Elune helped the elves, they wouldn't have all died and then went to the Maw. She thought that their deaths means more souls for Ardenweald. Elune is not really known for taking/rerouting elf souls, so I don't know what you really mean by that.

Do we know Elune could have helped the night elves - did she say she chose not to save them? All she confirmed was that when they died, she tried to send them to Ardenweald. Elune didn't stop the Sundering either and that was catastrophic for the night elves - people giver her too much credit and you're putting words in her mouth.

Sylvanas is literally sent to retrieve all souls from the Maw. Not the souls she sent there - all the souls, until she is the only one left there.

By Tyrande, not Pelagos. I'm just telling you what Pelagos says. Tyrande sats : "Below lies the Maw. An unjust fate to which you doomed so many. And it will be there... that your penance begins. Every soul lost in its depths, betrayed or condemned... You shall find and send forth to the Arbiter to be judged with the compassion all souls deserve."
Meanwhile, Pelagos says : "Never again will a mortal soul be sent to its depths. All deserve a chance at redemption."
No one ever says Revendreth is going to hold onto bad souls indefinitely.

Undercity proper was not even blighted, only the surface section.

I mean this is just patently wrong on both counts.
1.) It was blighted; wild you'd argue otherwise.
2.) Your original assertion remains incorrect.
You can even go visit it in game, and die. But more importantly, Lillian Voss even says as much at the conclusion of The Remedy of Lordaeron :
"We did it. By working together, we've cleared the surface level of the deadly plague cloud.
It will take more time to clean up the lower reaches of the Undercity, but it's a fine start."

It's still guilt over the things Anduin has done, I don't really see the disagreement here.

Well because he's not guilty over what he did as I stated before - he's guilty over how it made him feel. Sylvanas even cautions him about confusing what he did with what he was made to do - and he then clarifies what his guilt is about:
Sylvanas: It is perilous to confuse what you are made to do with what you choose to do.
Anduin: How can I not when it all blurs together?
Anduin: It was so horrific... and exhilarating.
Anduin: And it sickens me to think that satisfaction... may have been mine.

It's a seed, what do you think it's for? The hinting to it going to Dragon Isles comes from the fact that this was around the time Dragonflight and Merithra is said to know the perfect place for the seed to go.

I know what its hinting at, but you proclaim insinuation as declaration which is is not.

[JunktownVendor]

He didn't need to lie about Zul'jin - his presence in Revendreth worked to confirm Sylvanas' own prejudices against the Amani, as she thought he didn't deserve atonement because she hated his people. Her contrast between his fate and hers, however, was a lie of omission on Zovaal's part, as Sylvanas wasn't sent to the Maw by the Arbiter, but was rather sent there directly by Zovaal himself, who was actively interfering with her death. Zovaal just let Sylvanas put two and two together herself, without revealing his own complicity. Similarly, she couldn't mention the random lava eel by name, either - so she was shown an afterlife that also just so happened to conform to what Zovaal was trying to convince her of. Similarly, we also know that the Arbiter didn't judge Arthas himself to inhabit the Maw - he was thrown there by Devos and Uther, skipping any judgment by the Arbiter entirely. All in all, her experience of the Shadowlands was still curated to maximize Zovaal's influence on her decisions, quite successfully.

While I agree that there was definitely curation and Zovaal is not an honest broker most of the time, she was definitely sent to the Shadowlands by the Arbiter as there is no real evidence otherwise. I will agree that the Val'kyr seem to kiiinda goad her on in the Sylvanas book to jump, though.

Zovaal also failed to Dominate Anduin in the end - even with the added benefit of Kingsmourne and a shard of Arthas' fractured soul. He was able to finally gather up his will during the raid encounter at the Sepulcher and wrench Kingsmourne apart, dispelling the Jailer's Domination over him completely. It's very likely any attempt he made to do the same with Sylvanas would've ended in failure, probably even more quickly, as Sylvanas' will was likely stronger than Anduin's given both her nature as an undead banshee and just her nature as a person.

Gotta remember that Anduin only broke free once we were able to resist Domination as well, the whole thing with the Crown of Wills.

I think it is more likely the Eternal Ones didn't make the second Arbiter themselves but rather sent Zovaal's anima on to the foundries in Zereth Mortis where a new vessel could be fabricated, one that according to the Primus would be "dispassionate and just." Since we know Zovaal, and then the Arbiter made from Pelagos' soul and essence were made in the Crypt of the Eternal, it stands to reason that the second Arbiter likely had a similar origin. We also know that the role of Arbiter requires a very specific vessel to fulfill, one that is likely beyond the Eternal Ones' means to create directly - hence why they didn't replace the second Arbiter as soon as it was convenient to do so.

Yeah for sure, iirc in the Grimoire it's mentioned that the second Arbiter was made with Zovaal's anima. Something along the lines that the second Arbitoer and Zovaal are two halves. I can't remember the exact quote, but yeah.

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It was shown to her by the valkyr, servants of Zovaal, who were portraying events as needed to convince her. We don't actually know why that lava eel was there or who sent it there. All we know is that it is there and what the valkyr tell her. Everything shown to Sylvanas was done via a lens of manipulation. If you'd been paying attention, you'd notice a myriad of inconsistencies with what we've seen in the Shadowlands with how the Jailer portrays it to Sylvie.

Throughout Shadowlands it's shown that the afterlives are not perfect and that there was still some truth to Zovaal's reasoning. The afterlives were unfair, at least in our mortal eyes, like the Kyrian wiping memories or the whole aristocracy of Revendreth. It's definitely not a perfect place, as shown many times. It's only when the mortal intervened that things changed.

'The Machine of Death' refers to the whole system/function of the Shadowlands - not solely the Arbiter. And as a further counter to your original assertion, all the Eternal Ones are shown to be robots, created by architects in Zereth Mortis - but they're no unthinking. They're not automa. Thus to assume the second Arbiter was is foolish.

I didn't say she was an automa, but she is said to have been devoid of will. Devoid of will would imply unthinking, no?

Where was it said? Do you have any other examples of an artifact breaking open a portal to it's cosmic dimension?

So the Titans for example, are Arcane powers manifested into sentient creatures/souls. If you were to kill a Titan, its soul/magic would go back to the Realms of Order. While not artifacts of power per se, their bodies when destroyed in Reality let out their soul/sentient magic that goes back to it's realm of origin. There is no example of breaking a portal to a cosmic dimension besides Shadowlands. The reason for this is not certain but it could be that the Frozen Throne, described as a place where the Veil was at its weakest, was a perfect spot to let a surge of power of that magnitude back into the Shadowlands, being so "close" that it would break a hole in Reality.

Do we know Elune could have helped the night elves - did she say she chose not to save them? All she confirmed was that when they died, she tried to send them to Ardenweald. Elune didn't stop the Sundering either and that was catastrophic for the night elves - people giver her too much credit and you're putting words in her mouth.

I don't know how Elune could send them to Ardenweald when they would go there anyway. it's not really her domain as she is not an Eternal One. And yeah, I agree that Tyrande's reaction was way more intense for something that was less than Sundering. That was an odd bit but I always told myself it's because this was pretty much the last major domain of the night elves, so she just went nuts over it.

By Tyrande, not Pelagos. I'm just telling you what Pelagos says. Tyrande sats : "Below lies the Maw. An unjust fate to which you doomed so many. And it will be there... that your penance begins. Every soul lost in its depths, betrayed or condemned... You shall find and send forth to the Arbiter to be judged with the compassion all souls deserve."
Meanwhile, Pelagos says : "Never again will a mortal soul be sent to its depths. All deserve a chance at redemption."
No one ever says Revendreth is going to hold onto bad souls indefinitely.

So what are you trying to say, souls will just keep going into the Maw and Sylvanas will just keep sending them back, having them judged again, and then possibly sent there again until Sylvanas returns them again?

I feel like some of your criticisms are just semantics about stuff we agree about...

[Aucald]

While I agree that there was definitely curation and Zovaal is not an honest broker most of the time, she was definitely sent to the Shadowlands by the Arbiter as there is no real evidence otherwise. I will agree that the Val'kyr seem to kiiinda goad her on in the Sylvanas book to jump, though.

There's a lot of evidence to the contrary. The Mawsworn Val'kyr, agents who've been shown to be able to circumvent the process by which souls arrive at the Arbiter (e.g. standing in for traditional Kyrian Bearers) are already present when Sylvanas kills herself, and she immediately arrives in the Maw and is exhorted by the Val'kyr and Zovaal to join their cause. The most immediate case one would jump to is that her trip to the Maw was engineered. Also, like Zul'jin and Kael'thas before her, Sylvanas wasn't a threat to the Shadowlands prior to joining Zovaal - she by all rights probably deserved a place in Revendreth, but the Maw? Highly dubious.

Gotta remember that Anduin only broke free once we were able to resist Domination as well, the whole thing with the Crown of Wills.

He didn't use the Crown to break free, though. He was able to force the shade of Arthas from Kingsmourne to appear in a form that could be attacked, and then once it was weakened, wrenched apart the device Dominating him through his own agency. The Crown was used to grant a degree of resistance to Domination to the Maw Walkers, and they used that to confront Zovaal himself, not Anduin. Anduin himself never received the resistance enchantment from the Crown prior to breaking himself free.

Yeah for sure, iirc in the Grimoire it's mentioned that the second Arbiter was made with Zovaal's anima. Something along the lines that the second Arbitoer and Zovaal are two halves. I can't remember the exact quote, but yeah.

It's part of the Primus' dialogue at the conclusion of the quest "Covenants Renewed" in Korthia. Specifically, he says:

Highlord Bolvar Fordragon says: Primus, what we witnessed in the Arbiter's chamber, it was... beyond mortal understanding.
The Primus says: Once, Zovaal stood among us as the Arbiter. Yet he defied the will of the First Ones and sought to unmake the balance of the cosmos.
The Primus says: For his crimes, we stripped our brother of his power and bound him to the Maw. It was I who scribed the runes of Domination upon his flesh.
The Primus says: We used Zovaal's anima to construct a new Arbiter, one that would be dispassionate and just.

This doesn't really explicate that the Eternal Ones literally made the second Arbiter themselves, only that they removed Zovaal's anima and it was used to make a new replacement Arbiter - since we know how Arbiters are created now, it scans that the second Arbiter was actually created in Zereth Mortis at the remaining Eternal Ones' behest.

[Super Dickmann]

While I agree that there was definitely curation and Zovaal is not an honest broker most of the time, she was definitely sent to the Shadowlands by the Arbiter as there is no real evidence otherwise. I will agree that the Val'kyr seem to kiiinda goad her on in the Sylvanas book to jump, though.

The whole thing is a con. He also points to Arthas while she's in Hell to say that the system considers her and Arthas morally equivalent, but we know that isn't the case and that Arthas got dropped down by Uther. The reason for the Val'kyr being there is because they can travel freely from the Shadowlands. It's the same with the whole meeting. Elements of it are true - there are realms in the SL, including ones where you forget itself, the Shadowlands are a mess and the Arbiter is indifferently flawed as a judge because it's a robot made out of his remains, but like @Villager720 says, the whole thing is a performance to get her on board.

Though I'd add that we've every reason to believe that the second Arbiter is, unlike the Eternal Ones, an automaton running Judgesouls.exe.

[Sondrelk]

The whole thing is a con. He also points to Arthas while she's in Hell to say that the system considers her and Arthas morally equivalent, but we know that isn't the case and that Arthas got dropped down by Uther. The reason for the Val'kyr being there is because they can travel freely from the Shadowlands. It's the same with the whole meeting. Elements of it are true - there are realms in the SL, including ones where you forget itself, the Shadowlands are a mess and the Arbiter is indifferently flawed as a judge because it's a robot made out of his remains, but like @Villager720 says, the whole thing is a performance to get her on board.

Though I'd add that we've every reason to believe that the second Arbiter is, unlike the Eternal Ones, an automaton running Judgesouls.exe.

It's probably just to be expected that the story would be so hard to parse. It's trying to justify three expansions worth of vaccilating on Sylvanas' part, both in-game and on a meta level of the writers changing her motivations.
The story needs to make her sympathetic, have understandable motives, and also be completely batshit insane. It's really a bit of a miracle that they even managed to make a story that gives even a sliver of justification for why she acts the way she does.

Really the long and short of Sylvanas' arc is simply that she is an idiot who thinks she is far more clever than she actually is.
Just start from this assumption and everything makes sense.

[Super Dickmann]

It's probably just to be expected that the story would be so hard to parse. It's trying to justify three expansions worth of vaccilating on Sylvanas' part, both in-game and on a meta level of the writers changing her motivations.
The story needs to make her sympathetic, have understandable motives, and also be completely batshit insane. It's really a bit of a miracle that they even managed to make a story that gives even a sliver of justification for why she acts the way she does.

Really the long and short of Sylvanas' arc is simply that she is an idiot who thinks she is far more clever than she actually is.
Just start from this assumption and everything makes sense.

It's not that the scene is complicated or obtuse, though it is the latter, it's mostly that this is one of the few cases I can think of where WoW does this at all. I.e, presenting a situation and a pitch from a character, but having it be a deliberate setup without it later being explained in detail. If you check the Bald Man's spiel with what goes on in-game, you can see where he was economic with the truth, what was real and how it was meant to play on Sylvanas in particular. It's legitimately a good beat, well carried out. But it's also in a tie-in book and requires attention to SL itself and ain't nobody got time for this shit, especially when the pay-off is dealing with schizo In-game Sylvanas and worst villain in the MMO in-game Bald Man. The book in general has no right to be as coherent as it is, though it really falls apart on the last third, even if I appreciate things like the sheer brass balls of having 'soon you'll be with your loved ones' to Delaryn be genuinely meant.

The book captures the mix of being unscrupulous, not as clever as she thinks and locked in confirmation bias along with genuinely having some grounds for its version of Sylvanas well, but it only really works so long as it has a cohesive story going. As soon as the story turns into 'Let's fix this quest - the Novel' it melts into itself.