Is it time to scrap the Alliance and Horde?

[Feanoro]

sometimes theres genocide

Yeah, the Horde calls that "Monday morning at the office".

You missed the point, it's incredibly one-sided with the Alliance only ever winning on paper or in offhand mentions while its losses and humiliations take center stage. It's asking for the conflict to never be a major plot point again due to this.

[VladlTutushkin]

One bad expansion that barely anybody played because most people thought it was trash dosent crush decades worth of RTS and great WoW xpacs that have all cemented the idea that in the Warcraft universe there is horde, and there is alliance. Sometimes they are at war, sometimes theres genocide, sometimes theres fragile peace, and sometimes they band together to fight the big bad. You might think that, or want that to end, but I dont personally.

Blizzard have literally said that they will never remove that pillar from WoW, so unless there is a truly seismic change in philosophy at Blizzard, its never going to happen.

You have to realise something, what makes LOTR, LOTR. Its good vs evil, its the world vs the evil and the orcs and the trolls etc.

What makes star wars, star wars. Its the light side, vs the dark side.

What makes warcraft, warcraft. Its the alliance, versus the horde.

You're asking for them to just erase that permanently, for me, and I believe the vast majority of others, that dosent sit right.

I think the vast majority of players just want cross faction play, but they dont want to see orcs walking around in stormwind. Thats just my opinion though.

And faction wars NEVER worked since Warcraft 3. And even then they all teamed up in the end.

Alliance is not allowed to harm the Horde , and Horde never has a good reason to fight Alliance outside of “they may attack us in 50 years… maybe.”

So you get mindless genocidal goons on one side and saints punching bags on another. EVERY. FUCKEN. TIME.

Frankly just trying something new and moving away from it is better.

[Hambo94]

Yeah, the Horde calls that "Monday morning at the office".

You missed the point, it's incredibly one-sided with the Alliance only ever winning on paper or in offhand mentions while its losses and humiliations take center stage. It's asking for the conflict to never be a major plot point again due to this.

Yeah I do get that, and it would potentially be interesting to see the horde put the sword to the alliance and make the alliance surrender or something, but the story has always been built around the idea that the horde are the invaders, with a ton of infighting, political issues, divisiveness from their diversity, that are constantly struggling to remain stable, and as a result they're consistently weaker than the more united alliance.

I get what you're saying though really I do, but my point is that if people think the answer to this is just AHHHHHHH just press DELETE on the entire base plot of Warcraft! Then I dont know what to say, I strongly disagree with that. Like really, ive played WC1-3 and WoW since mid TBC (Dabbled in it before then but couldnt afford a sub long term due to being younger) so ive basically been a Warcraft fan from start to finish, and for me that would fundamentally demolish the main element of the franchise that I love, the horde, and the alliance, are red and blue. Thats just me though.

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And faction wars NEVER worked since Warcraft 3. And even then they all teamed up in the end.

Alliance is not allowed to harm the Horde , and Horde never has a good reason to fight Alliance outside of “they may attack us in 50 years… maybe.”

So you get mindless genocidal goons on one side and saints punching bags on another. EVERY. FUCKEN. TIME.

Frankly just trying something new and moving away from it is better.

Yeah as I said above, I get that, they do need to try something new, but I dont think that just removing the horde and alliances tension is ever going to be good for the game. Just find other ways to create story threads and intertwine the two factions IMO.

[huth]

Yeah as I said above, I get that, they do need to try something new, but I dont think that just removing the horde and alliances tension is ever going to be good for the game. Just find other ways to create story threads and intertwine the two factions IMO.

Eh, there's enough other factions to take that over. After WC3, Horde/Alliance tension was never really necessary for the game.

[Lora]

I'm not trying to play world of peacecraft

[VladlTutushkin]

I'm not trying to play world of peacecraft

But you DO. Remember all that "renewal"?

[Nymrohd]

Faction war just means both sides come out hating the outcome and feeling their factions were humiliated or presented as morons. There is no win condition there, no version of faction war that can exist in the game and leave anyone happy.

[Kithelle]

No. On the contrary. I would introduce more factions. Like, one for Night elves and one for Forsaken.

I'd love a just all Elf faction...that way we can be alone and maybe the haters will be happy that they no longer need to be on the same faction

[Cynical Asshole]

I'd love a just all Elf faction...that way we can be alone and maybe the haters will be happy that they no longer need to be on the same faction

Not gonna happen because the High Elves think the Night Elves are rednecks and zealots, while the Night Elves think the High Elves are godless idiots playing with dangerous powers.

[Feanoro]

@Hambo94
"I get it, really!"
* proceeds to suggest still more losses and humiliations for the Alliance


An eternal stalemate is boring, and constant one-sided treatment is off putting to use the mildest terms. The faction conflict has only managed to piss off everyone.

In a nutshell to the point of inaccuracy due to understatement...

Alliance fans are tired of:
- Their leaders being more worried about the Horde's moral state than their dead people
- No reparations or punishment for the Horde's latest atrocity du jour, hell, not even a scolding
- Losing big on screen center stage with neon lights, and winning only in off hand begrudging mentions in Twitter or a book
- Blizzard employees making their preference absolutely blatant, up to and including openly mocking Alliance fans. It's completely unprofessional, to put it mildly.

WC3 Horde fans are tired of:
- Being villain batted
- Characters going crazy and dying
- Getting flack for the evil Horde fans' poor behavior
- Being forced into civil war

Evil Horde fans are tired of:
- Not getting the kill because of game mechanics
- Being lectured on morality
- Being forced into civil war

[Hambo94]

@Hambo94
"I get it, really!"
* proceeds to suggest still more losses and humiliations for the Alliance


An eternal stalemate is boring, and constant one-sided treatment is off putting to use the mildest terms. The faction conflict has only managed to piss off everyone.

In a nutshell to the point of inaccuracy due to understatement...

Alliance fans are tired of:
- Their leaders being more worried about the Horde's moral state than their dead people
- No reparations or punishment for the Horde's latest atrocity du jour, hell, not even a scolding
- Losing big on screen center stage with neon lights, and winning only in off hand begrudging mentions in Twitter or a book
- Blizzard employees making their preference absolutely blatant, up to and including openly mocking Alliance fans. It's completely unprofessional, to put it mildly.

WC3 Horde fans are tired of:
- Being villain batted
- Characters going crazy and dying
- Getting flack for the evil Horde fans' poor behavior
- Being forced into civil war

Evil Horde fans are tired of:
- Not getting the kill because of game mechanics
- Being lectured on morality
- Being forced into civil war

I literally was stating I get what you're saying and accept your viewpoint and opinion, just because I dont agree dosent mean you need to whine about it.

You literally said "it's incredibly one-sided with the Alliance only ever winning on paper or in offhand mentions while its losses and humiliations take center stage."

Now you're saying "still more losses and humiliations for the Alliance"

So we've gone from the alliance only ever winning on paper to "more losses and humiliations for the Alliance"

Make your mind up and accept that others dont see it the same way and thats fine.

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I could see them slowly removing some factions resulting in a neutrality position. Do the new Dracthyr pick a faction like the pandas?

With cross faction guilds and end game content I seriously doubt that.

[Feanoro]

@Hambo94
You claim to understand, yet your proposed solutions involves the Alliance losing even more. Alliance continuously loses very publicly, so of course those fans aren't going to want more faction conflict. You suggesting even more losses isn't going to gain support when it's exacerbating the problem. There's no "whining" in pointing that out, nor is there any inconsistency in what I said.

Take your own condescending advice, others don't see the idiotic faction conflict the same way as you do. Given that nearly all commentary on BfA's faction portrayal here or anywhere else was negative, I'm hardly alone in viewing it poorly.

Make your mind up

Or you could read it again and realize that there was nothing inconsistent in what I wrote.

[VladlTutushkin]

I literally was stating I get what you're saying and accept your viewpoint and opinion, just because I dont agree dosent mean you need to whine about it.

You literally said "it's incredibly one-sided with the Alliance only ever winning on paper or in offhand mentions while its losses and humiliations take center stage."

Now you're saying "still more losses and humiliations for the Alliance"

So we've gone from the alliance only ever winning on paper to "more losses and humiliations for the Alliance"

Make your mind up and accept that others dont see it the same way and thats fine.

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With cross faction guilds and end game content I seriously doubt that.

You have to be kidding by now.

He said, literally - Alliance keeps losing on screen, and it always made into a spectacle. And when they score any kind of win, however small, it shoved into either obscure paragraph in a book or worse , posted on TWITTER.

[plz delete account]

One bad expansion that barely anybody played because most people thought it was trash dosent crush decades worth of RTS and great WoW xpacs that have all cemented the idea that in the Warcraft universe there is horde, and there is alliance. Sometimes they are at war, sometimes theres genocide, sometimes theres fragile peace, and sometimes they band together to fight the big bad. You might think that, or want that to end, but I dont personally.

Blizzard have literally said that they will never remove that pillar from WoW, so unless there is a truly seismic change in philosophy at Blizzard, its never going to happen.

You have to realise something, what makes LOTR, LOTR. Its good vs evil, its the world vs the evil and the orcs and the trolls etc.

What makes star wars, star wars. Its the light side, vs the dark side.

What makes warcraft, warcraft. Its the alliance, versus the horde.

You're asking for them to just erase that permanently, for me, and I believe the vast majority of others, that dosent sit right.

I think the vast majority of players just want cross faction play, but they dont want to see orcs walking around in stormwind. Thats just my opinion though.

things blizzard has said they will never do

Never add flying to EK and Kalimdor

Never add Vanilla servers, much less TBC or Wrath

Never allow players to group up cross faction

Never go to the Dragon Isles or the Broken Isles...

What else am I missing

[Swnem]

I don't think Blizz has the balls to so fundamentally change the IP.
But... it doesn't need to.

The answer is simple. Our characters are their own individuals and don't need to be tied down to the factions. The factions can do their thing and we do our own.
It's part of why people liked the class orders in Legion. We were no longer tied down to the faction and were instead a member of our class order.

I would say that it is a time of peace between the factions and all races can come and go as they please. Not unlikely reality. There are different nations in the world and people can travel between them.

[username993720]

I'd love a just all Elf faction...that way we can be alone and maybe the haters will be happy that they no longer need to be on the same faction

Not an elf only faction. They'd have allies, the Worgen and maybe the Pandaren.

[Hambo94]

You have to be kidding by now.

He said, literally - Alliance keeps losing on screen, and it always made into a spectacle. And when they score any kind of win, however small, it shoved into either obscure paragraph in a book or worse , posted on TWITTER.

Not sure why you're getting so up in arms, I was quite clear.

I made it crystal clear that I understood his viewpoint and that he was not wrong, and he took that comment and used it against me ironically. I clarified that I understood and then threw it back at him. Not sure what you dont understand here.

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things blizzard has said they will never do

Never add flying to EK and Kalimdor

Never add Vanilla servers, much less TBC or Wrath

Never allow players to group up cross faction

Never go to the Dragon Isles or the Broken Isles...

What else am I missing

You're comparing game features and logical business decisions, to literal pillars of franchises.

Need I say more?

[Shadowferal]

Not an elf only faction. They'd have allies, the Worgen and maybe the Pandaren.

Tauren as well. They initially were touted as among the most spiritual and as foremost in living in peace with nature as elves. It shouldn't come as any surprise that they'd get fed up with the horde collective and seek more like-minded allies.

[username993720]

Tauren as well. They initially were touted as among the most spiritual and as foremost in living in peace with nature as elves. It shouldn't come as any surprise that they'd get fed up with the horde collective and seek more like-minded allies.

No. The Tauren are Horde through and through. They can have Furbolgs, Green Dragons, Ancients, Chimaeras and others...

[Shadowferal]

No. The Tauren are Horde through and through.

Perhaps that's how the story has devolved into. But there should be a line that they wouldn't want to cross.
"For the Horde" becomes meaningless when it means Tauren are just the collective bitch, lower than goblins.