[Megathread] Star Citizen

**Bhanzai** · 2022-09-08, 02:50 AM

1st post is from 11 years ago. Developers are fraudsters taking advantage of morons.

**Val the Moofia Boss** · 2022-09-08, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by Bhanzai

1st post is from 11 years ago. Developers are fraudsters taking advantage of morons.

I don't think it started out as deliberate fraud. The pitch of developing a simple Freelancer clone delivered within a couple years seemed pretty achievable. You didn't have to make a game engine from scratch anymore; you could just license one. Lots of game dev problems that the devs of the 1990s and early 2000s had to figure out themselves had long since been solved and their solutions made public for all to see. But then the stretch goals and scope creep happened and the game turned into this hyper simulationist with walking on planets and millions and millions of different things that servers would have to track. So it was doomed to never be delivered in full. Chris won't admit it because he wants to preserve his public image. He wanted to break into Hollywood, and Star Citizen is a high profile project that has had government investigations and TV documentaries made about it. Admitting failure would be a blow to his image so he will never admit that he can't deliver. Chris has been fading into the background over the past few years so I'm guessing he intends to quietly leave and let someone else take the PR blow when CIG announces that they are ceasing development or closing.

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But yes. 11 years says it all.

**banmebaby** · 2022-09-08, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss

I'm guessing he intends to quietly leave

How does someone quietly leave from something like this? Especially after Freelancer, and with that one at least he had an excuse for it.

If he bails, his screwed regardless how he does it, the poor dude will have to work on this project for the rest of his life.

**Gorsameth** · 2022-09-08, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by banmebaby

How does someone quietly leave from something like this? Especially after Freelancer, and with that one at least he had an excuse for it.

If he bails, his screwed regardless how he does it, the poor dude will have to work on this project for the rest of his life.

Screwed how? He's rich. His reputation can be ruined and he can never find a another job in his life and he will still be perfectly fine.

**banmebaby** · 2022-09-08, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Gorsameth

Screwed how? He's rich. His reputation can be ruined and he can never find a another job in his life and he will still be perfectly fine.

Screwed in as you said, he won’t be able to find another job nor ever be trusted with shit at all.

I’m perfectly aware that he is filling his pockets with a CEO salary, together with his wife and brother, but you can’t forget that usually in situations like this people’s life-style tend to become quiet pricey as well, he won’t be able to keep that up if he stops whaling.

**ldev** · 2022-09-08, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by banmebaby

Screwed in as you said, he won’t be able to find another job nor ever be trusted with shit at all.

I’m perfectly aware that he is filling his pockets with a CEO salary, together with his wife and brother, but you can’t forget that usually in situations like this people’s life-style tend to become quiet pricey as well, he won’t be able to keep that up if he stops whaling.

Yep, after stuffing his pockets for tens of years from a scam, he will need more money. But then again - even with current AI he will be able to generate jpegs of space ship and excuses about why it's taking them so long and people will continue to send him money. It's a great scam, like TV/radio religion and it won't ever end.

**Edge-** · 2022-09-08, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by ldev

Yep, after stuffing his pockets for tens of years from a scam, he will need more money.

Roberts is fairly wealthy already. Like, not Richard Garriott wealthy from what I know, and not wealthy enough to dump $500M+ into development of a game, but in no way, shape, or form not financially comfortable at the very least. Given the number of people hired, studios opened, and tech they're licensing/building, it there's no reason to believe that the money is being "taken" by Roberts outside of whatever pay he's getting (which I have no clue). Their burn-rate is pretty crazy, and given how much more they still need to likely raise to complete either/both products I don't see how Roberts would have his hand in the cookie jar without anyone noticing.

Progress may be glacially slow, but it's pretty clear the money is very much being spent on making these games, even if they're project management nightmares.

**Ripster42** · 2022-09-09, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by Edge-

I don't see how Roberts would have his hand in the cookie jar without anyone noticing.

Eh, they bought the IP from him for 7 figures, he gets a 6 figure yearly salary, and has received almost $1m from dividends as of 2021. He's definitely made a few million from this.

**- Zephox -** · 2022-09-09, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Edge-

Roberts is fairly wealthy already. Like, not Richard Garriott wealthy from what I know, and not wealthy enough to dump $500M+ into development of a game, but in no way, shape, or form not financially comfortable at the very least. Given the number of people hired, studios opened, and tech they're licensing/building, it there's no reason to believe that the money is being "taken" by Roberts outside of whatever pay he's getting (which I have no clue). Their burn-rate is pretty crazy, and given how much more they still need to likely raise to complete either/both products I don't see how Roberts would have his hand in the cookie jar without anyone noticing.

Progress may be glacially slow, but it's pretty clear the money is very much being spent on making these games, even if they're project management nightmares.

You are forgetting here tax breaks that exist in different industries(Movies/Gaming/more depending on country and demand), most probably as well quarterly VAT returns by different governments when filing them.

As well looking at the information existing in companies house UK, there are 4 companies currently where they are all directors. Pretty easy to cheat around the system with taxes(YES I SAID IT) when you have multiple companies as depending on ''services'' provided you can still get away with less accounting/tax work.

Worth noting as well that CIG has 4 different companies entities registered over in the UK. Feel free to humour me but in terms of paperwork / invoincing etc someone could easily play around with what company invoices what service so yes..

Now not blaming and finger pointing as many business people will do these different tricks to play around with accounting/tax regulations legally but pretty confident considering there must be registered branches for business in each operating country with relevant tax authorities I would not be surprised if accounts wise some money has gone ''gray''. A huge example would be a US branch actually invoicing the UK branch as a result UK branch does not pay VAT services yet at the same moment because another partner UK company invoiced the current one that was doing business with US, suddenly there is a VAT ''loss'' you can show in your account books thuse potentially getting money back as returns.

**MrAnderson** · 2022-09-09, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Kyanion

Ah so you want to compare it to what exactly? What similar scope AND crowdfunded game is there? What ones have taken 10 years from getting money to develop their game? Aren't you the one that has multiple times compared SC to WoW, FF, Red Dead Redemption 2 and so on? Why all of a sudden does your game need special shielding from scrutiny?

What games have taken 12 years with 497+ million dollars and still have not delivered their game?

We'll no game is alike and certainly the endeavour of Star Citizen / Squadron 42 has several quite unique factors. But one can analyse the more recent big AAA productions whose development been somewhat showcased and talked along the years and observe timelines, development hurdles etc

Originally Posted by Jastall

Keep in mind, this has been in development longer than Cyberpunk has been teased, pre-produced, produced, launched, patched, and probably expanded on as well.

Originally Posted by Corvus

Correct. CP2077 just had its first DLC announced, plus a big patch.

Ok, Let's take Cyberpunk, from tease to release was ~8 years. (ignoring all the delays, broken state of release, cut/missing content or the abandonment of the multiplayer portion)

Let's say instead of Cyberpunk being made by a decade old studio (CDProjekt RED), who had been working on their own engine for a decade and with an assembled team of developers with multiple titles released. That instead it's just CDPRed founder along with a couple of passionate dev's launching a Kickstart to try to get funding to create their vision of what their "Dream Cyberpunk RPG Game".

Now let's say that along with making that "Dream Cyberpunk RPG Single-Player Game" they will also be making a "Cyberpunk Online Universe" where players would join early builds and give feedback while being able to buy cars, bikes, cosmetics whatever to help fund the development.

Adding to that, that they would also be keeping their community engaged with weekly dev videos, monthly reports, yearly gameplay demo showcases and community<>dev gatherings.

Wouldn't it be fare to say that adding those factors alone would contribute to more time of development?

Just so we're clear. I'm not excusing or saying CIG decision's of developing both games at the same time or massively increasing the scope of their games are right or wrong.

Just that by accounting the many factors: kickstart>extra-funding>increase of scope>open development>single-player & mmo etc the lengthy development time is not out of the ordinary.

Originally Posted by qwerty123456

Is that 4 million in subs a month or 4 million for the year?

That's the amount for the year 2020 as per their 2020's financial report:

There's 2 subscription options @ 12$ and 24$: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/subscriptions

Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss

when CIG announces that they are ceasing development or closing

Ah the good old "90 Days Top" meme still going strong. Any time now.

As for game development news:

New monthly reports are up > Squadron 42:

"The short of it:

AI: medical animations added (doctor can walk around medical bed, sit at desk, go to refrigerator), some personality added to behavior (aggressive AI will be aggressive)
Animation: improvements to cafeteria chowline waiting, moving in zero-g, facial animations
Art: working on navy uniforms and Galson's armor & melee weapons, plus Volt weapons
Cinematics - worked on more cinematics, notably chapter 5 where animations in the tram looks more realistic, and chapter 11 where things blow up
Engine - code optimization for physics, continued work on Gen12 with volumetric cloud work wrapping up
Features - rework of mobiGlas, considering allowing players to operate overhead cranes and drones
Story - working with cinematic scene to make marines cheer and a medic helping a wounded miner
Graphics - working on fire hazards and extinguishing fires
Level design - tested first third of game for playthrough, plus stability
Narrative - added placeholder recordings and production made a list of all content that needs to be shot/captured
QA - testing behaviors with emphasis on Vanduul behaviors
Tech animation - Pipeline optimization in Maya, making a list of the heads that need to be created, scanned, rigged, animated (so far there are 60 more needed)
UI - working on new starmap
VFX- working on a cinematic sequence

Star Citizen: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...rt-August-2022

New ISC weekly video goes into the new Derelict Outposts and crash sites coming to Tatooine, I mean Daymar moon.

Last but now Least: The Free-Flight as started and the Elite 8 event opens the game to everyone and allows players to fly 8 most popular ships for free.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/p...-Free-Fly-2022

Citizencon 2022 Program is UP - October 8th - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/citizencon/

**banmebaby** · 2022-09-09, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by MrAnderson

Let's say instead...

The year is 2063, CiG has been granted 3 billion dollars in crowdfunded cash, and an large unknown sum from private investors, stairs-tech is just days away from being implemented to help players getting around until elevators are properly fixed, the 4th solar system is ready to be tested, Salvage has been delayed till late next year, server meshing tech rebooted under the new name of quantum- entanglement tech, and we are now at the 37th release-window announcement for Squadron 42, just a little polish away from release, understandable, CiG is just a small indie developer with a Kickstarter after all.

Honest question, how long do you think they still need for a SC base release?

**Jastall** · 2022-09-09, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by MrAnderson

Ok, Let's take Cyberpunk, from tease to release was ~8 years. (ignoring all the delays, broken state of release, cut/missing content or the abandonment of the multiplayer portion)

Let's say instead of Cyberpunk being made by a decade old studio (CDProjekt RED), who had been working on their own engine for a decade and with an assembled team of developers with multiple titles released. That instead it's just CDPRed founder along with a couple of passionate dev's launching a Kickstart to try to get funding to create their vision of what their "Dream Cyberpunk RPG Game".

Now let's say that along with making that "Dream Cyberpunk RPG Single-Player Game" they will also be making a "Cyberpunk Online Universe" where players would join early builds and give feedback while being able to buy cars, bikes, cosmetics whatever to help fund the development.

Adding to that, that they would also be keeping their community engaged with weekly dev videos, monthly reports, yearly gameplay demo showcases and community<>dev gatherings.

Wouldn't it be fare to say that adding those factors alone would contribute to more time of development?

Just so we're clear. I'm not excusing or saying CIG decision's of developing both games at the same time or massively increasing the scope of their games are right or wrong.

Just that by accounting the many factors: kickstart>extra-funding>increase of scope>open development>single-player & mmo etc the lengthy development time is not out of the ordinary.

You do know they, like, made another game in between the teaser and release, right? Name of Witcher 3, I heard it was pretty big and popular. They actually worked on Cyberpunk for less than 5 years. SC's release is not even close to being in sight more than 10 years after the Kickstarter. Its far less ambitious single-player module is also MIA after said 10 years. The comparison doesn't work out any way you slice it.

And the fact that it came out broken while being far, far less ambitious than Star Citizen is not a point in your argument's favor either given that the studio supposed to be releasing Star Citizen has no released game under its belt and is keeping their single-player offering under wraps with increasingly implausible excuses as to why they never show it. At least CDPR released 4 games before Cyberpunk.

Finally, if the Kickstarter model causes so many delays and problems... maybe it wasn't the best model for the game. Food for thought.

**qwerty123456** · 2022-09-09, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by MrAnderson

That's the amount for the year 2020 as per their 2020's financial report:

There's 2 subscription options @ 12$ and 24$: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/subscriptions

Then at best thats like 30k people and at worst 15k people. That seems terribly low. Are the sub rewards not good?

**Yelmurc** · 2022-09-10, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by qwerty123456

Then at best thats like 30k people and at worst 15k people. That seems terribly low. Are the sub rewards not good?

Its just a newsletter, a in-game item like a set of armor, and a free ship to use for the month. The item usually gets added to the game after 6 months or so and can be found in the loot pool. Nothing amazing so people who sub are just there to support CIG the perks arn't really worth it.

Also that chart is from 2020, I'm sure it probably double that now since a lot more people are playing it.

**Glorious Leader** · 2022-09-11, 02:30 AM

Okay so the whole pricing model is a bit confusing. I saw an article on facebook, star citizen is free to play for a limited time. I installed the RSI installer and when i try to log in it says i need a package. Have i missed something?

**Otaka** · 2022-09-11, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss

But yes. 11 years says it all.

GTA 6 has been in development for 9 years, Elder Scrolls 6 has been for 11 years and beyond good and evil 2 has been for 15+ years etc.

So that statement means nothing.

Also everything you said makes no sense... SC is being patched with more features and content every 3 months than what World of Warcraft is in a single year excluding expansions (even then its debatable... not to mention those have a cost, unlike patches).
So what exactly makes you think they cant deliver when they are doing it all the time.

If they switched their development to provide a single patch a year, to the alpha, then that patch would have an expansion's worth of content... especially compared to MMO's these days.

Lots of game dev problems we have today didnt even exist 20 years ago... but now they do because corporations took over and are trying to milk us for money with yearly sports games and mobile games. So it doesnt make much sense to be so hateful about a project that doesnt fall into the same pit of having a publisher release their game too early. (*cough* cyberpunk *cough*)
This is a breath of fresh air when a studio is actually taking their time to finish the game... and we can see it in real time thanks to open development.
And we can play it as its being developed... its easier to criticize aswell, especially as an armchair expert with no knowledge of anything related to the industry.

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Originally Posted by Glorious Leader

Okay so the whole pricing model is a bit confusing. I saw an article on facebook, star citizen is free to play for a limited time. I installed the RSI installer and when i try to log in it says i need a package. Have i missed something?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/p...-Free-Fly-2022

**Kyanion** · 2022-09-11, 03:22 AM