Is it time to remove Normal/Heroic dungeons? They are uselesss since M+

[xenogear3]

I like how WotLk is designed. Even FF14 copied its design.

You get some badges for running a heroic daily.
After a week or two, you exchange these badges for the current tier gear.

The raiders complained.
Blizzard created two tiers. The badges can only get the lower tier.
The raiders still complained. Blizzard get rid that completely.

How did no one complain about it in FF14 ?

[Shink]

I like how WotLk is designed. Even FF14 copied its design.

You get some badges for running a heroic daily.
After a week or two, you exchange these badges for the current tier gear.

The raiders complained.
Blizzard created two tiers. The badges can only get the lower tier.
The raiders still complained. Blizzard get rid that completely.

How did no one complain about it in FF14 ?

they did, SE didn't listen, SE does not listen to anything that players suggest to improve the game



plus it has millions of sheep to drown it out as well, "DON'T LIKE IT DON'T PLAY!" thats just putting it nicely they get toxic af if you point out things to improve

[CalamityHeart]

they did, SE didn't listen, SE does not listen to anything that players suggest to improve the game



plus it has millions of sheep to drown it out as well, "DON'T LIKE IT DON'T PLAY!" thats just putting it nicely they get toxic af if you point out things to improve

It's almost as if not everything players suggest would actually be an improvement.

The way FFXIV handles its gearing seems fine to me. If you want the current highest tier gear, you raid. Otherwise, the best you can do is a bit under what raiders can achieve.

Personally, I see no reason to really "improve" upon that. It works fine for what it is.

[bryroo]

All of those things provide more useful content than these forums.

Keep the dungeons, shut this down.

[Gimlix]

I like how WotLk is designed. Even FF14 copied its design.

You get some badges for running a heroic daily.
After a week or two, you exchange these badges for the current tier gear.

The raiders complained.
Blizzard created two tiers. The badges can only get the lower tier.
The raiders still complained. Blizzard get rid that completely.

How did no one complain about it in FF14 ?

FF14 isn't as popular as WoW that is why you barely hear any complaints. Very logical. Not only that, Isn't their company known to totally ignore user feedback?

I do agree badges should return, the way WOTLK/Cata worked.

[Thrallinor]

Just keep a few things:

M+15
Mythic Raids
Ranked Arena
Ranked Battlegrounds

Oh, in case anyone didn't notice, that was sarcasm

[ghost]

Honestly, I wish NM dungeons were more relevant. Specifically, I wish they were a reasonable leveling path for folks on the threads of fate leveling scheme. Maybe in addition to turning off having to do all the story quests, it could also do something like "Normal Mode Dungeons give 500% XP" -- so that doing a dungeon got you most of a level, and it became a leveling path for alts. Honestly, by my 4th alt I'm so bored of doing the same set of quests to get to 60 efficiently - its just frustrating how bad the alt leveling experience is. And adding "Do Dungeons" (and maybe "Do PvP") while getting the gear you need at max level to start the gearing process would go a long to making it a better experience.

[Malcho]

I think they should turn Normals into a flexible mode where you can go enter alone or have NPC heroes accompany you just to get through it. Heroic probably needs a good look at because it's bypassed by x.1 patches and their catch-up gear easily.

[Gourbaak]

I like how WotLk is designed. Even FF14 copied its design.

You get some badges for running a heroic daily.
After a week or two, you exchange these badges for the current tier gear.

The raiders complained.
Blizzard created two tiers. The badges can only get the lower tier.
The raiders still complained. Blizzard get rid that completely.

How did no one complain about it in FF14 ?

but i thought blizzard never listened about feedbacks ???

[hulkgor]

No reason to keep it when it aint rewarding or worth doing. It is a waste of resources. Like alot of features that have been added into wow just to be removed 1 expansion later. WoW needs to stick with the core they have instead of expanding everything so there is a difficulty for every person on the planet.

How is it a waste of resources keeping something that already exists?

[Zardas]

No reason to keep it when it aint rewarding or worth doing. It is a waste of resources. Like alot of features that have been added into wow just to be removed 1 expansion later. WoW needs to stick with the core they have instead of expanding everything so there is a difficulty for every person on the planet.

Another opinion diguised as facts. The only fact is that, in the majority of mmorpgs, people only do the questing and then quit, without even bothering with mythic or any endgame content ; remove normal/heroic and you remove all way for them to do dungeons.

[Rayflo]

How are NM dungeons any value to the current state of the game? They are straight up ignored once u ding max level same with Heroic.
The dungeon loot is legit ashamely bad low. Current NM gives ilvl 236 items, which is so low. (And chances of u getting 1 item in a run is also small)

Dungeon story telling is good indeed, but not with Normal/Heroic anymore.

What is the point of having so much different difficulties? Atleast adjust the ones u want to keep and make them into 1.

Maybe you ignore them. Some people may like to level through them. Get gear to get up to mythic level. I use them to try out different talents that effect my rotations. Why get rid of them? if you don't want to do them or don't feel the need don't. It not a matter that they spending time on these dungeons where they could be used elsewhere, since they already be designed for Mythic/mythic +. If I were to choose a dungeon difficulty to get rid of it would be Mythic +'s to make Raids more meaningful again.

[xenogear3]

but i thought blizzard never listened about feedbacks ???

Blizzard only listens to whatever it wants to hear.
It always believes in "social".
It mistakenly thinks that people will not unsub when they have "real" friends in the game.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Yes, I would remove them except LFR.

[Otimus]

I'd rather they find a way to make something useful again rather than axing content.

[PenguinChan]

Normal and Heroic are fine. Heroic should be harder. M+ is the issue for non-'gamers' - they need to come up with a solo-queue design for lower level keys, and an MMR-like system for higher keys without leaderboards. IMO Blizzard is missing a decent chunk of their audience who wants to do that kind of content without having to deal with the toxicity of manual group finding.

I doubt any of that will happen soon as Blizzard is rather focused on other systems of the game of needing improvement first.

[zhero]

and here we go, most foolish take today, "less endgame content is better bcs i dont like part of it"
you know you can just... not do it? you can completely ignore M+ especialy now since vault works with raid/pvp too, and people who like m9 can do that, seems like a win win...

i take it you've never heard of oversaturation and trivialization, and that vault always worked with raid and pvp.

the game is being oversaturated with "endgame" content that isn't new content. running the same dungeons again with slightly different modifiers isn't new or entertaining, for me at least, its repetitive and feels redundant. with their constant increasing of item level of progression content like dungeons, yes, they are making it easier for alts and latecomers to get to the current endgame, but it trivializes all the content they weren't there for and makes it seem pointless, right now you get higher item level from dungeons than you can get from Korthia, and its right before the highest item level gear you can get at Zereth Mortis. And i did stop doing it, it felt redundant/boring and repetitive, as i said, its not actually new content. All this mythic and mythic+ content has lead to rampant item level inflation, especially when paired with LFR, which is causing a whole other set of problems.

[bloodmoth13]

What?
I think some of the categories could be reorganized since m+ has scaling difficulty it seems weird having two lesser versions. Leveling dungeons also have scaling and heroic is awkwardly just sitting there.

Then again m+ functions differently as it has a timer and is a different experience, heroic is tuned above entry level dungeons so rethinking it they all have their place.

So... No. No reason to remove them, they all have their place and removing them gives zero benefit.

[Stickiler]

What?
I think some of the categories could be reorganized since m+ has scaling difficulty it seems weird having two lesser versions. Leveling dungeons also have scaling and heroic is awkwardly just sitting there.

Then again m+ functions differently as it has a timer and is a different experience, heroic is tuned above entry level dungeons so rethinking it they all have their place.

So... No. No reason to remove them, they all have their place and removing them gives zero benefit.

I don't think Heroic has a place, mostly because M0 doesn't have a timer, so it sits in the awkward place where it's basically Heroic, but harder. Realistically they could probably drop Heroic, make mythic a little easier, and you'd still have your progression from levelling dungeons(normal) -> early max level gearing(Mythic) -> max level gearing(M+)

[bloodmoth13]

I don't think Heroic has a place, mostly because M0 doesn't have a timer, so it sits in the awkward place where it's basically Heroic, but harder. Realistically they could probably drop Heroic, make mythic a little easier, and you'd still have your progression from levelling dungeons(normal) -> early max level gearing(Mythic) -> max level gearing(M+)

Oh, no keys for mythic?

Man if i had friends to make groups with i might have bothered doing that but i skipped m0 entirely.

Heroic has dungeon finder though so i can passively apply for a dungeon and do other things in my time so thats a huge benefit, and im guessing they dont want dungeon finder for it.

If mythic had dungeon finder then heroic would be redundant.