Tags for Learning-Raids

[Amariw]

Some of the best experiences I had in wow was before a boss is swamped with guides and people only want to speed through it for weekly gearing, so i figured tags for learning raids could help with that.

People who want the usual speed runs will stick to usual raids, but people who are new and can't link curve will be able to flock to those raids, where no one will expect to have zero wipes.

I think there's a crowd for this, as pugging hc curve (or even just normal), while certainly doable, can often pit people who wanna experience bosses vs people who already did so in the first week and cause misery for both.

What do you guys think?

[AcidicSyn]

This is theoretically already how the LFG tool is meant to work (simply putting something like "learning" in the description or something. Though in practice.... lol.)

Is this supposed to be like a queueable normal aimed at folks learning the fights? If so, while I'm never opposed to additional modes that cater to players who want to learn, I'd probably prefer it be a solo experience in the style of proving grounds. Drops you right in front of the boss and you can practice different phase mechanics.

I think a dedicated mode where the point is for players who don't expect zero wipes yet not being LFR, while well intentioned, will meet with more resistance than anything else and functions as a bandaid to a larger issue.


P.S. in before make your own group.

[Lochton]

Some of the best experiences I had in wow was before a boss is swamped with guides and people only want to speed through it for weekly gearing, so i figured tags for learning raids could help with that.

People who want the usual speed runs will stick to usual raids, but people who are new and can't link curve will be able to flock to those raids, where no one will expect to have zero wipes.

I think there's a crowd for this, as pugging hc curve (or even just normal), while certainly doable, can often pit people who wanna experience bosses vs people who already did so in the first week and cause misery for both.

What do you guys think?

You don't have much other than the sprout mark or joining a guild that has patience.

[SaucyThighs]

I hear ya, though I do wonder if we really need UI features to manage simple human communication. You could just advertise "no-curve group", and I suppose the concern would be the results won't be as effective as if it was a solid UI feature.

Yet, with all our LFD, LFR, and other components is the state of satisfying social gameplay better than it was before? Probably not. I'm not saying it made it worse, but it's seems to me like we're managing the symptoms instead of the cause... which may not be the dev's job.

Not saying it's a bad idea but might not be the real solution to what you're looking for.

[Therougetitan]

It is literally in the game. No one uses it because the people who claim they want to join learner groups are never willing to make those groups themselves and instead complain about how other people make groups.

[Coldkil]

Basically above. The only way it could see any use is of they replaced it with and "already have curve" tick. Of yoi don't have it and the group is curve-flagged, you don't see it in the LFD

[Flatspriest]

LFR is the type of raid for learning/progression. That way, people can go in and see, and hopefully learn, the basics for the particular raid. There is no need for another tag for raids since Blizzard introduced LFR back in WotLK.

[Sanguinerd]

They put this in the game but the community doesn't use it for reasons already mentioned.

People suggest, complain and hate on Blizzard a lot (some of it definitely justified) but the community itself is a huge problem too which is not something Blizzard can fix.

[loras]

Some of the best experiences I had in wow was before a boss is swamped with guides and people only want to speed through it for weekly gearing, so i figured tags for learning raids could help with that.

People who want the usual speed runs will stick to usual raids, but people who are new and can't link curve will be able to flock to those raids, where no one will expect to have zero wipes.

I think there's a crowd for this, as pugging hc curve (or even just normal), while certainly doable, can often pit people who wanna experience bosses vs people who already did so in the first week and cause misery for both.

What do you guys think?

Would be good, the problem is that people will still whine and that people will associate "Learn" with "Suck".

The attitude is a people problem, Blizzard can't really fix that.


There is also another problem: It's a game, there needs to be a reward even for learning, as there is no point in studying for a game if neither the learning nor the reward nor the fun is worthwhile.
So you'd probably need to increase the rewards for it significantly to be competitive with random other players at least in terms of power, otherwise it's just another annoying mindless task to them that they will not bother to learn from.

So yeah: You want better learning? Restrain your e-peen and dangle genuinely better rewards; there is no reason for "Raid finder" loot to be a thing.

[LordVargK]

The problem is, that often those raids are misused by people who not only don't know the fights but also can't play their class.
So you have suboptimal strategies paired with insufficient performance.

[Kokolums]

Learning raids would work great if you can pick which boss to start at. But someone who knows bosses #1-5 and needs help with boss #6 isnt likely going to get help from a learning raid. So learning raids are probably only going to attract people who dont even know the first boss uness the raid just came out.

[Hastis]

LFR is the type of raid for learning/progression. That way, people can go in and see, and hopefully learn, the basics for the particular raid. There is no need for another tag for raids since Blizzard introduced LFR back in WotLK.

lfr is like low lvl dungeon where you just faceroll everything

[Flatspriest]

lfr is like low lvl dungeon where you just faceroll everything

Not for those who use it to learn the raids so they can progress through harder versions.

[Coldkil]

LFR is the type of raid for learning/progression. That way, people can go in and see, and hopefully learn, the basics for the particular raid. There is no need for another tag for raids since Blizzard introduced LFR back in WotLK.

Unfortunately LFR does nothing to teach players how to play. It's soulless, no one talks, you just bash your head to the wall until boss dies due to the scaling buff after each wipe. And the "learning/progression" tag in LFD is already present, people just don't care/use it because then no one would join their group knowing beforehand it's going to be a possible wipefest.

99% of the LFD groups are just people searching for others to carry them through the raid. No one wants to learn it, they want to kill bosses and get loot. No wonders most people buy immediately a boost so they have curve and that lets them join groups way easier.

[rrayy]

Not for those who use it to learn the raids so they can progress through harder versions.

NOBODY is using it to progress through harder versions.

[Flatspriest]

NOBODY is using it to progress through harder versions.

Where did you get your numbers from? I know many players who started learning raids via LFR, then went to Normal and on so you cannot say that NOBODY is using it to learn progression. Back in WotLK, when LFR was first introduced, all the main raiding guilds used LFR to figure out the basics of the new raids before progressing. Even to this date, they still do so to get better geared as best they can before they do progression. They use it for learning.

[rrayy]

Where did you get your numbers from? I know many players who started learning raids via LFR, then went to Normal and on so you cannot say that NOBODY is using it to learn progression. Back in WotLK, when LFR was first introduced, all the main raiding guilds used LFR to figure out the basics of the new raids before progressing. Even to this date, they still do so to get better geared as best they can before they do progression. They use it for learning.

Hardly anyone uses it that way. The 6 people you know does not mean a significant number do. Today, serious raiders complain if they have to use it. The number is nowhere near as significant as you think.

[Eazy]

It's in the game already.

There are two options:
-deal with it and expect stupid expectations, such as all mythic bosses killed >300ilvl and 3k arena rating for Normal Sylvanas,
-make your own group,

LFR is the type of raid for learning/progression. That way, people can go in and see, and hopefully learn, the basics for the particular raid. There is no need for another tag for raids since Blizzard introduced LFR back in WotLK.

LFR was never a place where people were learning how to raid.

[Gaidax]

What do you guys think?

Bruh, you can do 500 tags, checkboxes and menu items - it does not change the end point of failure: players.

For every 1 person who wants to "learn the raid" - you will have 20 that just want to zone in, kill boss, get loot and get the fuck out.


And frankly - I can't blame players here, because only masochist wants a wipefest so Blilly can figure out how to not blow the fucking raid up with Eternity on Fatescribe.

---

Also the hilarity of your suggestion is that it's practically ingame already precicely the way you want it - nobody uses it.

[Amariw]

Bruh, you can do 500 tags, checkboxes and menu items - it does not change the end point of failure: players.

For every 1 person who wants to "learn the raid" - you will have 20 that just want to zone in, kill boss, get loot and get the fuck out.


And frankly - I can't blame players here, because only masochist wants a wipefest so Blilly can figure out how to not blow the fucking raid up with Eternity on Fatescribe.

---

Also the hilarity of your suggestion is that it's practically ingame already precicely the way you want it - nobody uses it.

Players failing is fine, the idea is to separate between those who know they're new and can't one shot and those that just want an easy time.

It works in other MMOs so i have hopes it could make pugging more easy going for those who want it in WoW as well.