We need more people to vote.

[Lynarii]

This is a very easy dichotomy to understand but so many people want to see it as ‘the people I disagree with are bad’. Convenience i.e. freedom is at odds with security i.e. fraud prevention or more realistically mistake prevention. More convenience, more fraud/mistakes. Less convenience, less fraud/mistakes. And the disagreement arises over where to tune that dial. Compounding this issue is a paucity of data surrounding the effectiveness of proposed policy or lack thereof. But it’s certainly not ‘we don’t want x group of people voting’ at large because any proposed restriction at a state or federal level affects the whole population by design.

So explain to me exactly how it causes fraud to have the voting day be declared a national holiday? Or do like Canada does, and require that all citizens registered to vote be given enough paid time off to have 3 consecutive hours in which to do so?

How does it cause fraud to have enough voting locations that people can actually do it in a reasonable time period?

At least Spectral is honest about wanting to deny people he disagrees with their Constitutional rights. The solution to fraud and mistakes is to have robust checks to make certain that votes that are cast are valid. It should NOT be to take steps to prevent legitimate citizens from voting in the first place.

[beanman12345]

Doubling down. Bigger yikes.

It's always projection with these folk. I mean, he even called himself a bigot, I'm positive there is some of that in there, but this thread I'm just seeing pure self deprecation.

[Levelfive]

Voting is pretty easy. The last thing we need is anyone that's too retarded to pull it off being added to the voting pool.

I'll take this at face value and assume you genuinely need it explained to you that by "easier" or "more difficult," we're talking logistically, not intellectually. For example, for people who work jobs where they can't get 8+ hours off *on a Tuesday* to stand in line, or for people who don't have cars or no longer drive and so don't have driver's licenses to show, Democrats want to make it easier by making election day a holiday, or expanding voting days, or having dropboxes for people who can't logistically get to the sole remaining polling place by taking 4 buses because Republicans have shut the rest down, or expand the types of acceptable id that Republicans have narrowed, or make it free altogether, or expanding vote by mail--all things Republicans have targeted to make it more difficult for people who are coincidentally* more likely to vote for Democrats to vote. And even though you needed this (non-exhaustive) list of things explained to you, I will still defend your right to vote.

*That's sarcasm, meaning, I don't actually think it's a coincidence.

[Shadowferal]

The last thing we need is anyone that's too retarded to pull it off being added to the voting pool.

Like Trump voters, or QAnon supporters?

[Santti]

I ain't wasting even one second of my life giving these garbage politicians recognition. They are 0 value leaders, just like all the managers abusing workers. All we need is workers, no 0 value leaders or managers are needed.

An attitude that has served the Republicans well, giving rise to the worst leaders of them all.

[PC2]

I think we should encourage everyone to vote in every cycle, but nobody should ever be coerced into voting by laws that punish non-voters.

it's probably for the best if we miss out on the wisdom of people with room temperature IQs.

Human universality and morality trumps anything relating to IQ though. The most moral choice and the choice with the most intellectual merit are going to be the exact same anyways, they cannot contradict each other. So even if a voter is extremely ignorant of intellectual things they can still help politics move in the right direction based on their instincts and their moral understanding of what is more or less right or wrong.

Also I think countries should try to implement universal suffrage as much as possible instead of being exclusionary. Young people are perhaps the most under-represented group in modern times and I think they should be allowed to vote even though they are relatively ignorant compared to adults, on average. Despite their lack of knowledge young people can still help with recognizing and correcting errors in their society which is run by their parents generation.

[The Stormbringer]

My state of Texas is notorious for having low voter turnout, but honestly, the US as a whole has a PITIFUL voter turnout.

The 2020 election had the largest voter turnout of the 21st century, but 80 million Americans STILL didn’t vote.

How do we get more people to vote?

Skipping reading the thread to get my ideas out first. The best way to start? Make it a national, paid holiday for everyone. Another good method? Push hard on mail-in voting. And a third one? Figure out a way to securely let people vote online. Lastly? Make it easier, faster, and more accessible for voter registration.

[Flarelaine]

Yikes. Poster just out saying he doesn’t think the mentally handicapped should be able to vote.

Much of the problems of the latest years - should I say decades? - stem from a mass of people voting without properly understanding the world. However, I put that down to wilful ingnorance and not mental capacity.

[Draco-Onis]

Human universality and morality trumps anything relating to IQ though.

It's also worth noting that IQ test are the lasting legacy of eugenics, there's no way to measure human intelligence. There's a rather long list of science Nobel prize winners, world renowned artists and intellectuals with low IQ. It is just a test and you can study and score high on it and still fail in life miserably.

[Mazza]

Should just do it like in Belgium. Voting is mandatory here, it's on a Sunday and there's clear systems to have a family member do your vote for you as well as a mail in voting system.

[Ivanstone]

Should just do it like in Belgium. Voting is mandatory here, it's on a Sunday and there's clear systems to have a family member do your vote for you as well as a mail in voting system.

Belgium also doesn't punish non-voters, some parties want to get rid of compulsary voting (mostly right wing as near as I can tell) and last, but certainly not least, there are no free hot dogs! How does a drunken prison colony manage to get the last part right?

[Levelfive]

Belgium also doesn't punish non-voters, some parties want to get rid of compulsary voting (mostly right wing as near as I can tell) and last, but certainly not least, there are no free hot dogs! How does a drunken prison colony manage to get the last part right?

The question answers itself!

[downnola]

The argument that making it easier for people to vote is terrible because we don't need low-IQ voters casting ballots instantly refutes itself when you remember who was made president in 2020 with low voter turnout. Arguments of that kind are nothing more than elitist drivel and lead to dumpster fires like the current American political system. We need more civic participation in the United States, not less.

[Forogil]

It's also worth noting that IQ test are the lasting legacy of eugenics, there's no way to measure human intelligence. There's a rather long list of science Nobel prize winners, world renowned artists and intellectuals with low IQ.

Except that it doesn't seem to be true, but based on how pop-science often works:

• There's a normal claim (Nobel prize winners have higher than average IQ)
• which is then exaggerated (they have super high IQ)
• and the exaggeration is then debunked (some of them don't have that high IQ; like Feynman only scoring 126)
• and then the debunked claim is blown out of proportion.

Obviously, specific tests can be problematic for various reasons: Feynman did the tests in his youth and those tests are somewhat less accurate, Andy Warhol was dyslexic which some claim decreased his score by 30 or so points, Einstein failed the language and biology test when taking the entrance exam a year early.

There might be exceptions - but generally, despite exaggerated claims, their IQ isn't low in absolute numbers. In some it's like saying that there are short players in the basketball Hall-of-Fame; it's true that there are players that are shorter than expected, but the shortest player is still of average height for US males.

However, you are right that restricting voting based on IQ is still problematic (it's still done in some countries) and I'm not in favor of it, you'll have to spend so much effort on something that should only have a marginal impact. E.g., if you forbid voting below IQ 70 (intellectual disability) that is only 3% of the population, which shouldn't have such an impact - and if you increase the barrier the case becomes less clear, and all the problems with dyslexia, foreign language, and other problems with the tests appear.

But the same idea of intellectual maturity is one reason why we have age-restrictions on voting - it doesn't mean that all 15-year old are too young to vote and all 22-year olds are mature enough, but it is still done as it is good enough and generally it kind of works.

It is just a test and you can study and score high on it and still fail in life miserably.

That is true, but from that it doesn't follow that you can score badly and still succeed.

[Fugus]

The argument that making it easier for people to vote is terrible because we don't need low-IQ voters casting ballots instantly refutes itself when you remember who was made president in 2020 with low voter turnout. Arguments of that kind are nothing more than elitist drivel and lead to dumpster fires like the current American political system. We need more civic participation in the United States, not less.

A good portion of that problem isn't because dumb people are voting by itself. Its that they have been making it harder for people who vote against them to vote at all. So making it harder for people to vote just not only doesn't address that but it makes it easier for them to push it even further.

What needs to happen to address it:

1) Outlaw gerrymandering & Require free and easy access to IDs that can be used to vote and require the locations be open during hours that anyone can reasonably make it regardless of what shift they work and close enough that they can reasonably by traveled to and for places that like to play with that (Like Texas) require them provide free transportation to them if they are outside of a reasonable range.

2) Mandate that any voter roll purges must happen within the first 2 months AFTER a presidential election. That gives them 2 months every 4 years and guarantees that any will be able to check while also offering same day voter registration for voters.

3) All people of voting age can vote regardless of if they are a felon or even currently in prison to prevent it being abused to disenfranchise voters and gerrymander. And if you have so many felons voting that it changes results, that is a red flag that you have a bigger problem having so many felons.

4) Require ranked choice voting.

5) Go to public funding of elections and ban donations to the point not even the candidate themselves can fund their elections and any deals given to 1 candidate must be given to all.

6) Ban PACs, people can volunteer their time if they wish but can not be paid for it and can not profit from it or give anything of value to anyone else during their service.

7) National Holiday for voting with a minimum of 3 weeks for early voting to prevent lines and ensure to have accommodations for those who are disabled.

8) Force them to allow Out of Precinct voting, if they want to make it take 12 hours to vote in the poor black part of town, then those minorities can drive to the rich white side of town and be in and out in 5 minutes instead. Also require that the staffing and supplies at a location be directly proportional to the typical turn out of that area so they CANT legally choke out an area to force those long lines.

9) Along with making election day a national holiday, when you go and vote they also give you paperwork showing what day and time you voted and can be shown to your employer as well if you still had to miss time to vote and they can not legally hold it against you unless you were already given a reasonable amount of time off to vote during the early voter period (Which should stretch for 3 weeks so shouldn't really impact all but the most slave driver of employers).

But making it harder for lower IQ to vote isn't the answer. Going that route, the GOP would go the other way and if you were too intelligent they would bar you from voting. They would twist it so that knowing the tax code or the constitution would bar you from voting. Remember, we got places like Texas that want to make sure that college students can't vote by blocking polling stations by their colleges and refusing to accept their college IDs but want Jimbob Hodunk who doesn't know how the world works outside of his deer stand and has to sign his name with an "X" is able to use his Gun permit as a valid ID and in North Carolina where they did studies to find out which forms of ID minorities were most likely to lack to require them with surgical precision while they got a case in the supreme court trying to strip the election committees of all oversight so they can throw out the votes and violate their own state constitutions where courts can't even hear the cases nor can anyone else.