Why Cata was/is a good expansion and you are just repeating bs like a parrot :)

[Dioporco]

Precog : You didnt play Cataclysm, you played the late stage of Cata hence your brain cant separate early Cata from late stage Cata-MoP Pre-Patch, you are just mixing the timelines.


Since Blizzard sent the Cataclyms survey, the amount of weird threads "CaTa WiLl rUiN ClAsSic" is giving me soul aids, surely Cata will kill Classic not the ramping bots, gold selling and GKDP (which pump gold buying even more) nor the death of balanced servers that already killed classic and tbc or the fact that the entire information pipeline of 2022 isnt the same as 2006? nobody ask about mobs or stuff when you can go to wowhead oryt, you are pretty smart my friend.




Now lets see really what Cataclysm brought to the game :

• 2 Races - Worgen and Goblin + New Race/Class Combos
• Revamp of entire world, which can be subjective as "good" thing, but watching people boasting about MUH VANILLA WORLD and still levelling in dungeon or getting afk boosted to 70 makes me thinking it was just nostalgia bullshit
• Flying was there since the start
• Guild Achievments > The phoenix, the cauldrons the pets the guild mounts, remember? Probably not.
• Rated BGs
• Mastery Stats
• Haste Breakpoints which created a new way to min max your character.
• Reforging : which had the PRO to give items a longer life due to the fact you could re-use an item by relocating different stats making them bis-ish but on the CONS side made people becoming ultra greedy and Reforging was just relocating stats nothing mind blowing, wow you Reforged Crit into Mastery? Fucking MIT material there.
• Tol Barad was an amazing combination of PvE and PvP better in some way than Winterlag or Lagspring.
• Classes were fun to play both in PvE and PvP - until late stage cata when the triple dps meta ruined PvP imho

PVE WAS ACTUALLY HARD - this need a separate mention, PVE in Cata was more Retail than Classic, hence required skill and wasnt just pressing 111111111 deleting bosses like now, HC Dungeons were fun and hard not the Wotlk HC snooze fest or the TBC one which can be sumd up "lets bring 3 mages and aoe everything down wow"

You probably were playing League of Legends, since this was the same period moba were popping out and a lot of people didnt play Cataclysm nor WoW in general, but i remeber the drama when a LOT OF KINGSLAYER (LK 10 or 25) GUILDS were getting ass fucked by Omnotron Defense System in Blackwing Descent, or when the 10 man content was hard(er) like/than the 25 man content.



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So what is the fuzz with "DURR CATA BAD" then?

Well 3 things that people mix up due to ignorance + never actually played Cataclysm but Asmongold or the random streamer they follow told them to believe.

• LFR
• Dragon Soul
• New Talents

LFR got introduced at the END, not the BEGIN of Cataclysm so WE (people that actually played Cata) played through : Throne of the Four Winds, Baradin Hold, Firelands, Bastion of Twilight and Blackwing Descent WITHOUT LFR and we had a blast

Now surely Dragon Soul isnt the best raid ever made, but if we put aside the last 2 Deathwing Encounters - which are still boring in 2022 - the rest of the raid has aged very well imho, so the LFR snowflake crying makes no sense at all regarding "Cataclsym destroying Classic with LFR" ye sure because GDKP has done wonders for TBC.

"BBBBBBBUT LFR AND LFG RRRRUINED MY SERVER SOCIAL ASPECT " ye sure honey, we saw the AMAZING SOCIAL experience of Classic and TBC -> people staying in their server discord while Firemaw trade channel was/is and endless spam of WTS BOOST - GDKP RUNS, ye that is surely different than Retail -ah whops it isnt- stop lying to yourself, people killed the social aspect not LFR nor Cross Real just like people brought it back through Discords Servers rather than spamming in Barrens Chat, deal with it people in Classic are turbo toxic and anti-social nobody wants to explain stuff again nobody want to share info like in 2009 because everybody already know and just want to steamroll the content there is no nostalgia, Guilds had their own site and forums, now? Discord, there is a Discord for PvP one for PvE one for your Class one for Achiv etc etc the entire server community is de-centralized you need to understand that.
Servers were a micro cosmo back then, but now is impossible to make it like it was in 2006-09.

Also people keep saying "Derp Herp the New Talents Trees" but those, were MOP talent trees introduced during the Pre Patch so why you are talking from your own ass? Ah you didnt play Cataclysm and you are roleplaying as one on reddit, my bad let me educate you.

This is the current WOTLK Hunter situation for talent trees as per 3.3.5



----------------------------------
This was the Cataclysm 4.3.4 situation





So the difference is that we got MASTERY as new stats that increased the Spec Passive power so a bit more of variety than FUCKING STACK CRIT AND HASTE AND MAIN STATS, still Talent Trees but trimmed regarding the insane dumb talents like "increase your total agility and intellect by 2%" 0/2 or "Increase your crit chance by 1/2/3/4/5%" which surely werent the same talents for each min maxed bis cookie cutter build you copy pasted from Discord-Wowhead or IcyVeins



So the 3 MAJOR POINTS of "CATA WAS BAD MOMMY" are total bullshit QED.

[StillMcfuu]

Cata made me leave wow, dungeons/raids weren't that hard they were just CC heavy, at no point did I ever think anything was too hard in cata.
What chased me away, zones that were instanced didn't really feel great (cough SL) and the class revamps into what is essentially wow 2.0 weren't changes I liked. The old world revamp was OK, but it's play once content and it didn't add much to the game. I still consider it the worst expansion, although SL is right there with it.

[Duroga]

100% Agree. I loved Cata very much.

[Jumalharha]

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

[Gimlix]

OP clearly didn't play Cataclysm. there was alot more to it then what you described lol.
Vasj'Ir was a terrible zone, horrible dungeons, barely any content just to name a few.

Also world revamp did more bad then good. They did improve the questing.

[Dioporco]

OP clearly didn't play Cataclysm. there was alot more to it then what you described lol.
Vasj'Ir was a terrible zone, horrible dungeons, barely any content just to name a few.

Also world revamp did more bad then good. They did improve the questing.

With your post history and status on mmoc, I hope you will not take as an insult if I dont care about your trolling opinion, right?


horrible dungeons = got fucked by 5 man hc and stop play. <--- this is the red flag for any fake "i play cata and was bad" just if anybody was curious about the kind of imposter i was referring in the starting point.

[Alanar]

Blizz called it a turning point the other day for some people, hence the survey.

Opinion on cata is devided, personally I wouldnt want to go back to a gimped retail version, which has alnost all systems we have right now.

I never cared for lfr and mastery isnt perse super interesting.. Honestly struggeling what the appeal would be..I mean why not just play retail? Like you said the people already destroyed the social aspect, which I highly agree with. So LFR is a non issur already.

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OP clearly didn't play Cataclysm. there was alot more to it then what you described lol.
Vasj'Ir was a terrible zone, horrible dungeons, barely any content just to name a few.

Also world revamp did more bad then good. They did improve the questing.

I dissagree with Vashjir, this part got blown up a lot. Sure some didnt like it, but the zone was really well done.

Getting dizzy with the camera has always been a player by player issue, I had no issues with it and actually really enjoyed the zone. Besides it was optional.

Endgame was boring I agree.. another reason to think about an cata server imo.

[Dioporco]

the class revamps into what is essentially wow 2.0 weren't changes I liked

Can agree regarding Mages and Dks since they got a complete rework to the point you had to re-learn the class but from my hunter experience was pretty much the same shit all again so hard to call it a wow 2.0 tbf

Blizz called it a turning point the other day for some people, hence the survey.

Opinion on cata is devided, personally I wouldnt want to go back to a gimped retail version, which has alnost all systems we have right now.

I never cared for lfr and mastery isnt perse super interesting.. Honestly struggeling what the appeal would be..I mean why not just play retail? Like you said the people already destroyed the social aspect, which I highly agree with. So LFR is a non issur already.

Opinion on Cata is divided because the shifting from Cata to MoP was basically Old WoW -> Modern WoW BUT again if we pick those 2-3 things like LFR and No Class Trees there was really an issue or was that the game wasnt dumb easy like is in Classic? Maybe people didnt want an hard game.

Also MoP is completely different than SL so even in that sense is weird to talk about "modern wow" when we talk about Cata or Pre-Patch MoP



If we take Cata and remove LFR and use 4.3.4 talents is basically Wotlk with hard content.

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I dissagree with Vashjir, this part got blown up a lot. Sure some didnt like it, but the zone was really well done.

Getting dizzy with the camera has always been a player by player issue, I had no issues with it and actually really enjoyed the zone. Besides it was optional.

Endgame was boring I agree.. another reason to think about an cata server imo.

Vashjir was a good zone, if he played he would knew, the issue was that was the first time they tried with an underwater zone, and unless you were a druid or had a swimming mount was pretty dizzy to play with the 3D camera, now in 2022 Lost Ark managed to make underwater zone way better on gameplay terms.

It was too early but the zone itself is legit art side, if you want to see a cesspool zone go to Westfall now.


Endgame? Lets see : HC, Raid, PvP in Cataclysm.

Endgame in TBC and Wrath? Lets see : HC, Raid, PvP.

So basically the same? MoP introduced CM

[Alanar]

Can agree regarding Mages and Dks since they got a complete rework to the point you had to re-learn the class but from my hunter experience was pretty much the same shit all again so hard to call it a wow 2.0 tbf






Opinion on Cata is divided because the shifting from Cata to MoP was basically Old WoW -> Modern WoW BUT again if we pick those 2-3 things like LFR and No Class Trees there was really an issue or was that the game wasnt dumb easy like is in Classic? Maybe people didnt want an hard game.

Also MoP is completely different than SL so even in that sense is weird to talk about "modern wow" when we talk about Cata or Pre-Patch MoP



If we take Cata and remove LFR and use 4.3.4 talents is basically Wotlk with hard content.

I know, but this isnt an issue of content being to hard. Just like you said classic wasnt hard, because people are not playing a new game. Cata will end up being the same.. its not gonna end up being hard, I dont believe that.

The reason why people dislike lfr as of the discussion, is ptetty much dead. Its in retail and lfr is not going to do much, because the social aspect has been ruined even before that in classic.

You can ask yourself the question, do I want to play an gimped retail version, with content that is still fresh in our memory.

[Dadwen]

--- snip ---

Funny enough you posted hunters, #1 reason I unsubbed in Cata was the way they had Focus regen working at its start, at first hated the switch from mana to focus, but once they had it worked out it was much much better, but that wasn't till much later in Cata so I'd take late Cata over early cata any day.

*not that it matters I was looking forward to LK and the dev's can't leave their shit design ideas out of it so I doubt I'd play it anyway.

[Gimlix]

With your post history and status on mmoc, I hope you will not take as an insult if I dont care about your trolling opinion, right?


horrible dungeons = got fucked by 5 man hc and stop play. <--- this is the red flag for any fake "i play cata and was bad" just if anybody was curious about the kind of imposter i was referring in the starting point.

Trolling because you disagree? Sure if you prefer that. I am sure not trolling.
Do you remember how 4.3 was so bad? That not only Dragon soul was bad, but the dungeons too? Hell they had to remove the 4.3 trailer from youtube because it was 90% dislike. Do you even remember that? lol

[Sableye]

my experience was Cata became an elitists expansion, because many of the hyper optimizations from wrath still stuck around like reforging, gems, glyphs, enchants, the perfect talent tree, and gearing up became very difficult because heroics were tuned to be mini raids, as well as there wasn't an easy starting raid like wrath had, it forced out a lot of casual raiders who could find a group before, and I never really got to see any of the upper end content for that expansion when it was current. LFR was after all created as a response to this and while it had its issues you could at least play the last tier of raiding coming back into the game.

[Gimlix]

my experience was Cata became an elitists expansion, because many of the hyper optimizations from wrath still stuck around like reforging, gems, glyphs, enchants, and gearing up became very difficult because heroics were tuned to be mini raids, as well as the raid tiers being still not a set thing, it forced out a lot of casual raiders who could find a group before, and I never really got to see any of the upper end content for that expansion when it was current.

It wasn't that hard though, most of it was straight forward content. Only 4.0 was hard pre-nerf. Firelands, ZG/ZA, DS weren't that hard.

[callipygoustp]

The end, for me, came with the introduction of 4.2.2 - the ridiculous nerfs started at that point.

[Cæli]

I played cata back then, I feel nostalgia for it, yet I can still recognize that many aspects of it were bad, and it was a first for wow.
The removal of the old world was awful and I still can't believe they did this to this day. The last tier was not as good as I hoped. The ending was whatever. The in game cinematics were extremely cheap.
Cataclysm caused the game to sink and it never recovered and it will never.
Not everything is bad in cata, but the bad decisions made in it were so bad that it makes cata bad overall.

[Sableye]

It wasn't that hard though, most of it was straight forward content. Only 4.0 was hard pre-nerf. Firelands, ZG/ZA, DS weren't that hard.

it was hard getting into a guild that did raiding, especially since cata also made switching guilds a difficult decision with rep, the leveling system, and locking profession recipes behind it

[Katchii]

I actually really enjoyed Cata, but it's very middle of the pack for me as far as overall experience goes.

I do somewhat agree that stopping Classic at WotLK makes sense because Cata was the first step towards what is currently retail with the class changes and talent tree changes, but I'd still play the heck out of it.

[Gimlix]

it was hard getting into a guild that did raiding, especially since cata also made switching guilds a difficult decision with rep, the leveling system, and locking profession recipes behind it

Hmm might been, i remember Cataclysm also had an issue with alot of dead servers which made raiding impossible.

[Tuor]

I still don't understand the point of having multiple threads all discussing the same.

[rogoth]

what kind of garbage troll post is this meant to be exactly?

the things that made cataclysm a bad expansion was significantly more than the piss poor attempt at sounding clever you just posted:

significantly reduced talent trees that caused a lot of issues with class/spec balance.

significant lack of any end game activities to partake in once level capped outside of raiding.

+5 levels instead of the customary +10 meaning that levelling was a joke and 2 out of the 5 levelling zones were utter trash tier in terms of getting around them while levelling up, add to the fact that some quests were bugged until the last patch of the expansion before being fixed it was a mess.

gear being normalised so that there would no longer any reason to do each version of a raid, and having raid lockouts shared across difficulties was a joke also, literally killed 25 man raiding outside of server first/high world ranking guilds, a massive step backwards in terms of raid design and general tuning.

the mastery stat being utter fucking garbage to most specs and not worth the stat budget, and completely fine or even a little strong and defining that class/spec, to the point that mage was the only class to have the mastery stat completely nerfed into the ground then totally revamped because blizz bent the knee to every forum whiner and crybaby cunt who kept getting 1 shot in pvp on a 5 minute cooldown.

the small amount of end game content that there was, was so meaningless from a player power point of view, the vast majority of content that released was unplayable for casual players meaning for the first time in 5-6 years the majority of the playerbase had nothing they could log in and do, making it the worst experience for those players since the game launched, it also didn't help having a huge sub zone, raid, and daily quest hub cut from the game release content during 4.2, which meant that the content that was put into the game was so limited in scope it was a joke.


all in all the piss poor content stream, the utter joke of class balance, and the sheer lazy and pathetic dev team/management team combo meant that cataclysm at the time was the worst pile of trash to grace the franchise, it had some good raid content, that's about it, the rest is nothing to write home about.