[TV] She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (*SPOILERS*)

[Endus]

Maybe the issue is precisely that the MCU is not the best place for that kind of show in the first place. You can have Ally McBeal with superpowers as a show, but if you put that as part of a cinematic universe about superheroes you create certain expectations and interest that wouldn't exist if it wasn't part of that universe. That's also the reason why people keep watching and talking about it even when they don't like it and i'm pretty sure that everyone involved in the show is very aware of that.

And again, the Dan Slott run this is patterned after is pretty much exactly like this show. So if there's clearly room in the Marvel comics universe for this kind of thing, why wouldn't there be in the Marvel cinematic universe?

The "expectations" you're talking about are unreasonable and demonstrate a deep lack of understanding of Marvel and its content. Because Dan Slott's run is by no means the only kind of silly run. We could talk about NextWave: Agents of H.A.T.E, which is amazing and I hope it gets adapted. There's superheroics but it's also more Suicide-Squad-y than Suicide Squad. Or basically anything with Squirrel Girl. Howard the Duck is a long-time character. There's a deep run of silly within Marvel, and plenty of stuff that takes whatever "expectations" you're talking about and flagrantly ignores them.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Oof, it's even clearer than I remembered - Bruce doesn't even transform when he hits the ground, he's just stunned for a bit and then goes Hulk.

I think this is pretty solid indication that MCU hulks are superhumanly tough even in human form?

not even just Hulks... even the "regular" humans in the MCU can survive things that would, in actual reality, probably cripple or kill them. That scene with Stark posted earlier is an example. Here's another.



Hulk gives Black Widow a backhand that sends her flying against a wall... Obviously not a full-force hit... but, had there not been a wall in the way, she'd have flown at least as far Jen flew after that punch from Titania. Natasha is, of course, stunned a bit...but no serious injuries sustained.

Action movies in general are very forgiving in terms of what should have killed, crippled, or maimed our heroes. I mean, how many times have you watched a movie and something happens and you're like "there's no way he could have survived that"

Not just our heroes either... villains too! Here's some ninja turtle action:



Shredder falls off the top of a building and gets crushed by a trash compactor.

Still makes it back for the Sequel though.

And just because I feel like picking on Die Hard more...because it is a movie that embodies all the complaints about she-hulk...including the ones about how "poorly" men are portrayed.

[Geckoo]

And again, the Dan Slott run this is patterned after is pretty much exactly like this show. So if there's clearly room in the Marvel comics universe for this kind of thing, why wouldn't there be in the Marvel cinematic universe?

The "expectations" you're talking about are unreasonable and demonstrate a deep lack of understanding of Marvel and its content. Because Dan Slott's run is by no means the only kind of silly run. We could talk about NextWave: Agents of H.A.T.E, which is amazing and I hope it gets adapted. There's superheroics but it's also more Suicide-Squad-y than Suicide Squad. Or basically anything with Squirrel Girl. Howard the Duck is a long-time character. There's a deep run of silly within Marvel, and plenty of stuff that takes whatever "expectations" you're talking about and flagrantly ignores them.

The expectations people have with the MCU are a direct consequence of the MCU itself, not from the comics. You are clearly very lectured in the comics, but i'm sure you'll agree that the majority of the people watching the movies and shows don't know or care enough about the comic books, so it doesn't matter how close the she-hulk show is to the she-hulk comic if in the end we are talking about what people expects from the MCU.

And to be clear, i'm not saying that there is no room for comedy or silly stuff, all marvel movies and shows have comedy all over the place! but never at the expense of pushing a more or less serious story forward. In fact, the biggest flops they had are the ones that failed to balance both things.

And Titania suckerpunching Jen was also funny! So it works.

Exactly. Well, i didn't find it funny, but it doesn't bother me either. So yeah, it works.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

The expectations people have with the MCU are a direct consequence of the MCU itself, not from the comics. You are clearly very lectured in the comics, but i'm sure you'll agree that the majority of the people watching the movies and shows don't know or care enough about the comic books, so it doesn't matter how close the she-hulk show is to the she-hulk comic if in the end we are talking about what people expects from the MCU.

Couple points I want to make here:

1) The thing about "what people expect from the MCU" is that it's always evolving. What they expected from the MCU in 2008 is different than what they expect in 2022. If the MCU had constrained itself to being "what people expect"...it would never have grown into what it is.

2) Marvel has been very clear about what people should expect from She-Hulk. If some people aren't gettting what they expect...they just weren't paying attention. That doesn't mean they have to like it... not every show is for every person. But there needs to be a line drawn between "this isn't what i wanted" and "this is trash".

3) The MCU has always taken cues from the comics...even if the majority of people aren't aware of it.

[Biomega]

But there needs to be a line drawn between "this isn't what i wanted" and "this is trash".

Seems to be a recurring theme in this thread and others like it.

People REALLY need to understand this. And then, ideally, also act accordingly - i.e. don't watch things you don't like, and don't come piss on stuff other people like that you don't just because you don't. How are we ever going to get better product if people just watch everything anyway and go on hate-filled rants across platforms. That isn't helping anyone.

[Raisei]

Seems to be a recurring theme in this thread and others like it.

People REALLY need to understand this. And then, ideally, also act accordingly - i.e. don't watch things you don't like, and don't come piss on stuff other people like that you don't just because you don't. How are we ever going to get better product if people just watch everything anyway and go on hate-filled rants across platforms. That isn't helping anyone.

On the contrary. Critique is very important to improve the quality of a product. In this case the MCU as a whole. By heaving completely unjustified praise on this show, or rather allowing you and your friends here to do that without offering a counter position we signal to Marvel that we are fine with the abyssmal quality of this show, making them think that they do not need to do better.

What you are saying is that surrounding yourself with yes-men is a good idea, so you never need to question your stance. That is about the last thing we need. We need people to come out of their echo chambers to think more, not less.

[Fabinas]

It isn't "badly written", and you folks making that claim haven't ever made a single valid argument to support that. You just don't like it.

Edit: On this point, before people come back with weak elements, I'm not arguing the writing is genius. Just serviceable. On par with any other decent sitcom. There's a whole lotta room between "bad" and "excellent", and I'm disputing "bad", not claiming "excellence".



There's the utterly baseless double standard. You're willing to make excuses and suspend your disbelief, when it's Tony Stark. But not when it's Jennifer Walters.



The movie's right there for you to watch. I'm just not holding your hand and stepping you through scene by scene. If you thought there was contradictory evidence in the following scene, that burden of proof lay with you, not me.

And unfortunately for you, the next scene is Tony working at a computer without any trace of injury whatsoever or any indication that any significant time has passed. Which I kinda think you knew and hoped I wouldn't check, as if that made any damned sense.

You're holding a double standard. Which raises the question of why you're targeting She-Hulk, specifically, because it sure doesn't make a lick of sense to single She-Hulk out like you are.

No mate. You make the claim, you give the proof. I won't have you posting a meme-short from the film, because you think it proves something that suits you. Go all the way, or stop posting stuff that are misleading.

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Bruce was also ok after this.

So Bruce was ok after this, but a damn traffic accident causes him to bleed all over his cousin and transform her.

Now is that a double standard or not?

[Biomega]

On the contrary. Critique is very important to improve the quality of a product.

If me writing "stop pissing on stuff other people like just because you don't" came across as meaning "critique" to you, I don't really know what to say.

Absolutely we need critique. But that's not what I was talking about. At all.

[Endus]

No mate. You make the claim, you give the proof. I won't have you posting a meme-short from the film, because you think it proves something that suits you. Go all the way, or stop posting stuff that are misleading.

I did. You just quoted it.

And unfortunately for you, the next scene is Tony working at a computer without any trace of injury whatsoever or any indication that any significant time has passed. Which I kinda think you knew and hoped I wouldn't check, as if that made any damned sense.

Maybe make the effort to read posts before responding, if you want people to believe you have honest intentions?

[paxen]

It would be nice if people stopped enganging with the trolls.

Fabinas earlier dismissed the inhibitor outright, and now they wonder how Bruce could bleed in She-Hulk but survive the pratfall..

[Fabinas]

I did. You just quoted it.

Maybe make the effort to read posts before responding, if you want people to believe you have honest intentions?

post the video. of course i read it, duh?

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It would be nice if people stopped enganging with the trolls.

Fabinas earlier dismissed the inhibitor outright, and now they wonder how Bruce could bleed in She-Hulk but survive the pratfall..

I have done no such thing. Decide what's your friggin position here: It's either :

A) Hulks can withstand huge trauma even in their normal human forms. That means the inhibitor just prevented Banner hulking, but at the same time, he shouldn't have bled all over his cousin

B) Hulks in their normal human form are fragile, That means the inhibitor prevented Banner from hulking, leading to bleeding all over Jen.

Feel free to quote official Marvel sources if there's a 3rd option. Because it's either one or the other, according to what we're shown and told so far.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

post the video. of course i read it, duh?

Christ:



Happy now?

A) Hulks can withstand huge trauma even in their normal human forms. That means the inhibitor just prevented Banner hulking, but at the same time, he shouldn't have bled all over his cousin

B) Hulks in their normal human form are fragile, That means the inhibitor prevented Banner from hulking, leading to bleeding all over Jen.

Feel free to quote official Marvel sources if there's a 3rd option. Because it's either one or the other, according to what we're shown and told so far.

C) Slashing/Piercing damage is different from Bludgeoning. That's true whether you are a hulk or not.

[Darththeo]

Christ:



Happy now?

Are people literally arguing about what would physically happen in a Superhero movie? If you applied actual physics to a Super hero movie everyone dies.

[Fabinas]

Christ:



Happy now?

So how much time has passed from the supposed injury of Tony to him working at the computer?

Feel free to fanfic.

But at any rate, that's not our problem. Decide and pick a position what happens with hulks. Just read above.

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Christ:



Happy now?




C) Slashing/Piercing damage is different from Bludgeoning. That's true whether you are a hulk or not.

So, hulks in their normal human form can be punched and drop from heights, with no significant damage, but pierce them and they bleed.

What about bullets then?

[Darththeo]

So how much time has passed from the supposed injury of Tony to him working at the computer?

Feel free to fanfic.

But at any rate, that's not our problem. Decide and pick a position what happens with hulks. Just read above.

Are you seriously arguing that a strike like that which in our world likely breaks at least one bone can be waived away because for all we know "months" passed?

Guess, what? We know he wasn't hurt because of Pepper's reaction later in the movie, that reaction wouldn't have made sense if she was aware he was doing what he was doing. If he broke a bone, you are talking at least a month of recovery. The issue you are having is you cannot suspend your disbelief for She hulk, for some illogical reason but had no problem doing it for Iron Man. If you cannot suspend your disbelief, of course it won't make sense. Iron man should have been paste after the Mark 2 crashed because of physics, but it is waived away by what is essentially techno-magic.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

So how much time has passed from the supposed injury of Tony to him working at the computer?


But at any rate, that's not our problem. Decide and pick a position what happens with hulks. Just read above.

if it "wasn't your problem"...why did you insist on dragging out the argument? Or is it "not your problem" now because any evidence that refutess your position is automatically dismissed?

[Biomega]

So, hulks in their normal human form can be punched and drop from heights, with no significant damage, but pierce them and they bleed.

What about bullets then?

Whatever the current situation requires to work.

Movies are wildly inconsistent with such things all the time. And always have been. Any average action movie will spend two hours shuffling through fifty clashes that should be fatal to any regular human, and then somehow a shoulder wound instantly kills the bad guy in the finale. That's just regular cinema stuff, suspension of disbelief of the most basic kind.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

So, hulks in their normal human form can be punched and drop from heights, with no significant damage, but pierce them and they bleed.

What about bullets then?

You mean like, for example, if Bruce Banner were to put a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger...would he survive? Cuz he did that...and he did.

[Fabinas]

if it "wasn't your problem"...why did you insist on dragging out the argument? Or is it "not your problem" now because any evidence that refutess your position is automatically dismissed?

But i didn't argue that this happens all the time in MCU. Endus did. I rejected his meme, also your video cause it proves nothing for Tony (so no double standard) and then went back to my initial argument.

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Are you seriously arguing that a strike like that which in our world likely breaks at least one bone can be waived away because for all we know "months" passed?

Guess, what? We know he wasn't hurt because of Pepper's reaction later in the movie, that reaction wouldn't have made sense if she was aware he was doing what he was doing. If he broke a bone, you are talking at least a month of recovery. The issue you are having is you cannot suspend your disbelief for She hulk, for some illogical reason but had no problem doing it for Iron Man. If you cannot suspend your disbelief, of course it won't make sense. Iron man should have been paste after the Mark 2 crashed because of physics, but it is waived away by what is essentially techno-magic.

How do you know how hard he was hit? with his hands in front, he either broke them both or the self sustained hit was not strong enough.

You're claiming that Tony was hurt. So, either the next scene happened much later, after he healed, or he wasn't hurt at all.

And why comparing a scene of an accident with a brawling scene between two super powered women?

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Whatever the current situation requires to work.

Movies are wildly inconsistent with such things all the time. And always have been. Any average action movie will spend two hours shuffling through fifty clashes that should be fatal to any regular human, and then somehow a shoulder wound instantly kills the bad guy in the finale. That's just regular cinema stuff, suspension of disbelief of the most basic kind.

But that's exactly what you people do. Comparing Tony's accident with a super brawl. Whatever works to not accept that the show has no consistency.

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You mean like, for example, if Bruce Banner were to put a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger...would he survive? Cuz he did that...and he did.

Hulk spit that out. Not Banner. Want the video?

[Biomega]

But that's exactly what you people do. Comparing Tony's accident with a super brawl. Whatever works to not accept that the show has no consistency.

You're missing the point.

The point is, ALL movies and shows are wildly inconsistent with this stuff ALL THE TIME.

So why does it suddenly matter here, when it's been going on for 100+ years in cinema?