Changes & Experiments to Raid Rewards in Dragonflight Season 1

[Biomega]

We had this exact system in Legion and this very much wasn't the defacto loot system for all guilds down the ladder.

But things evolve.

We also didn't have WF guilds doing 500 split runs and spending 20 trillion gold. Now we do. It's a system of escalating standards, and what people didn't consider 5 or 10 years ago or whatever cannot be taken as the status quo going forward. People have demonstrated repeatedly that they'll go further and further. There is no reason to expect that they wouldn't escalate this as well, as they have all other things over time, just because that's not something they did in 2016.

Can we stop arguing about fictional scenarios that would ruin the game when the alternative is to put restrictions into place that you know will cause similar harm anyways.

I doubt this would even come CLOSE to the potential harm of unrestricted PL. Especially in the broad middle segment of the population, where most of WoW takes place. Very little changes for the average player in the average runs. You only exchange different extremes, and limit where and how much those extremes deviate.

Like, I can't wait for PuGs to just start tolling need on absolutely everything and then selling shit in raid chat for gold now.

Already happened with PL. Got an item you don't need? Sell it for gold or tokens. I remember Ra-Den trinkets in Ny'alotha. Happened many times exactly like that.

There is absolutely nothing suggesting that you can roll Need on something you couldn't otherwise just have gotten from PL. Effectively, PL is just everyone rolling Need anyway. Now you can get people who pass.

[Gasparde]

Already happened with PL. Got an item you don't need? Sell it for gold or tokens. I remember Ra-Den trinkets in Ny'alotha. Happened many times exactly like that.

There is absolutely nothing suggesting that you can roll Need on something you couldn't otherwise just have gotten from PL. Effectively, PL is just everyone rolling Need anyway. Now you can get people who pass.

There's a difference between 1 guy luckily getting his 1 PL item from a boss and every plate wearer rolling need on every plate item and since we're now always able to trade everything, they're all always able to sell everything.

Right now, if I were to get a random weapon from Denathrius or whatever without already having that ilvl, there's nothing I could do. But with this change I can just roll on the 3 weapons he drops at the same time and I'll possibly be able to sell all 3 - which I would do, because the fuck do I care about a 7 ilvl upgrade when all I do is raid in PuGs.

PL got you your stuff and if you were lucky, you could get more. GL doesn't guarantee you your stuff. You can go an entire raid and not get a single item if you have unlucky rolls. This isn't even just remotely the same. This can and probably will easily bring GDKP into retail's PuG raiding scene again - because now there's 50 items per raid and you can probably roll on like 30 of them, whereas with PL you got 2 items... and that was it - so why the hell not abuse the hell out of that.

[Relapses]

Blizzard, to players: Find a fucking guild.

[rayvio]

so personal loot was working really well and only needed a few tweaks to perfect it... so as usual it gets thrown away and replaced with something stupidly awful that'll make nobody happy...

[[Apok]]

Well that's me not pugging with any alts.

[Accendor]

I already see the Puggers hating on the mythic crowd for the group loot changes, when in reality nobody asked for personal loot to be removed, just for ML to make a return.

[Sinaa]

So because of some ehm people that did not understand that loot quantities have been adjusted to accommodate for the wasted items from personal loot, we get this garbage. Fantastic, huzzah, praise ION! People got used to personal loot, many have grown to like it, seriously fork vocal minorities ruining good things.

[Alkizon]

/Unique Drops/ Description looks like (although they deny it, but still) breeding result of corruption/AA + tf gear or SL's light legendary item without crafting (all of which is bad). I'm not sure, that understand, what exactly they were trying to achieve with this, especially considering my relentless critique of ilvl inflation per se.

[Enter Name Here]

i'm curious what their stance will be on players that deliberately click need on every item just because they can. will it be a bannable offense these years? sadly, i'm not able to post on US official forums.

[Relapses]

so personal loot was working really well and only needed a few tweaks to perfect it... so as usual it gets thrown away and replaced with something stupidly awful that'll make nobody happy...

Definitely wasn't working well for organized group content. This is a concession for guild groups.

- - - Updated - - -

So because of some ehm people that did not understand that loot quantities have been adjusted to accommodate for the wasted items from personal loot, we get this garbage. Fantastic, huzzah, praise ION! People got used to personal loot, many have grown to like it, seriously fork vocal minorities ruining good things.

I don't think it was just a "vocal minority" who was displeased with forced PL. I do agree that ML w/ extra steps is kind of... an interesting move. And this definitely does read like a very complicated solution to something Blizzard already solved ages ago.

[Sanguinerd]

God they're so unbelievably thick over there.. It's tiresome.

It's like the game isn't 15 years old and they don't know their own players but live in this little bubble of delusion.

All they had to do was remove the trade restrictions from PL, NOTHING MORE.. and we all know the reason that even existed in the first place

[[Apok]]

God they're so unbelievably thick over there.. It's tiresome.

It's like the game isn't 15 years old and they don't know their own players but live in this little bubble of delusion

All they had to do was remove the trade restrictions from PL, NOTHING MORE.. and we all know the reason that even existed in the first place

This tbh, typical blizzard, let's come up with some fix that wil create just as many problems as it solves instead of just fixing the problem.

[Trumpcat]

Will there be a point to raiding below Mythic difficulty in terms of gear upgrades when you can easier and faster get better gear from M+?

[DechCJC]

Did anyone want this? Pretty sure all anyone wanted was for loot to be tradeable and for ML to be an option. How do they come to these answers...

[Itisamuh]

The looting issue is something I guess I will never understand. They should just leave everything as personal loot, which is by far the best system in literally every way, and simply allow all drops to be tradable with no restrictions. That way people can distribute if they want to, but nobody is at the mercy of others against their will.

[lllll]

Blizzard, to players: Find a fucking guild.

I avoid guilds. My past guilds have been filled with people I'd rather not associate with at all and I doubt it's going to be any different in any other guilds.

[Eazy]

I've never seen anyone complaining about the Personal Loot.

I haven't seen people wanted a higher ilvl item bonuses from the raid neither.

Seems like a bad idea tbh.

[Nymrohd]

There is absolutely nothing suggesting that you can roll Need on something you couldn't otherwise just have gotten from PL. Effectively, PL is just everyone rolling Need anyway. Now you can get people who pass.

There is a massive difference. With Personal Loot it was the system's "fault". You could not pass any blame, real or imaginary, to the players because it was the system deciding. With Group Loot, everyone who rolls need on something someone wants is a %$@%$#@^%$@%$ whose mother should ^%$%&%^#&$%^ and will be getting death threats on whispers until they block people.

- - - Updated - - -

I've never seen anyone complaining about the Personal Loot.

I haven't seen people wanted a higher ilvl item bonuses from the raid neither.

Seems like a bad idea tbh.

A group of people did complain endlessly. But I doubt they were ever the majority. And everyone else was OK with and didn't know it is our duty to scream them down because Blizzard likes to design by the loudest voice.

[Biomega]

There is a massive difference. With Personal Loot it was the system's "fault". You could not pass any blame, real or imaginary, to the players because it was the system deciding. With Group Loot, everyone who rolls need on something someone wants is a %$@%$#@^%$@%$ whose mother should ^%$%&%^#&$%^ and will be getting death threats on whispers until they block people.

I mean, I see the potential for drama to be sure, but the EFFECT for the average group will be the same or better. Class-stacking aside, there's no reason to think your odds of getting an item are worse now.

In fact the group balance thing is the only real problem I see, in terms of actual loot acquisition rates. In particular hunters, as every ranged weapon that drops is just a kick in the teeth for all but TWO specs in the entire game. And one of the extra-thicc drops is a bow. That's just pretty damn aggravating.

[Holdodlig]

I dont get how all this is bad cause it doesnt affect you as a player. You domt have amy disadvantages if players buy boosts or something.

I was in this kind of mindset before. But seeing your friends leave because they feel their achievement is downgraded by the fact anybody can just pay for it is actually impacting. And I'm pretty sure it prevents people from joining the game when people tell them the game is P2W.