How did RDF ruined the social aspect??.

[Dadwen]

the only social interaction in dungeons is "123" at the very start when it forms.

well so far all we have against it is it's "anti Social" and "being lazy" which so far seems to be really weak arguments.

*dragging random people though a dungeon is less lazy than running though with people you know how they play?
As a tank once i got into the swing of it the random people were a bit more fun (felt a bit more of a challenge and more impressed when it all came together smoothly).

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I have an issue that people who are bitching about not having the RDF are often the same fucking people who complain about how social interaction in the game is dead. People lack critical thinking and I was making light of it since the guy I quoted took issue with somebody calling those in favor of the RDF lazy.

you can't police being social any more than you can force people out in the world while waiting for dungeons either argument is stupid, and dumb to keep pushing the subjects..... he was correct the laziness card being pulled by the Anti-RDF's is BS.....

[Relapses]

you can't police being social any more than you can force people out in the world while waiting for dungeons either argument is stupid, and dumb to keep pushing the subjects..... he was correct the laziness card being pulled by the Anti-RDF's is BS.....

At least there's an opportunity for social interaction in one of those situations. The RDF removes it completely which is, like, the whole fucking point.

[Mardux]

lets see where did LFR come in at oh ya at the end.... , and what was the biggest complaint at the start of Cata and what did they have to nerf Hmmmmmmm......

Ignoring the player base is blizzards defining characteristics for some time now.

End if who-it's, what giving up going for that gold text on the bliz forums already?

Your argument is implying that something wasn't in cata because it came in at the end of cata... That's.. special.

[Grinning Serpent]

what brand crystal ball you use so I can use it to pick my server if I ever start playing again?

(and some morons wonder why some people don't want to take ole Bliz up the free transfers)

You aren't even playing? Then why in the hell are you even here? Get a fucking job or an actual hobby you could use this time on.

[Dadwen]

At least there's an opportunity for social interaction in one of those situations. The RDF removes it completely which is, like, the whole fucking point.

really you can't talk with people in RDF? hmm didn't know it blocked talking to others.... interesting I don't remember that in LK the first time around.

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Your argument is implying that something wasn't in cata because it came in at the end of cata... That's.. special.

umm the drop in Cata come in long before LFR (didn't say it was not a Cata feature did I hmmmmmmmmmmm nope) we're taking about the drop in Cata subs, the major one in Q2 and when did LFR (hint Patch 4.3) come in...... I'm implying for the slow ones it had nothing to do with Cata subs drop...... you now saying all the sub drop in Cata subs is from something they added in patch 4.3??? ya calling me special lol.....

[Relapses]

really you can't talk with people in RDF? hmm didn't know it blocked talking to others.... interesting I don't remember that in LK the first time around.

The act of creating the group itself is social. The act of travelling to the summoning stone is social. The act of communicating with other people while forming the group is social. The RDF removes all of them. Why should all of these factors live or die on the altar of convenience?

[Dadwen]

You aren't even playing? Then why in the hell are you even here? Get a fucking job or an actual hobby you could use this time on.

Sorry forgot you're you can see the future of servers and the boss of the forums (who can post and not post) /s


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The act of creating the group itself is social. The act of travelling to the summoning stone is social. The act of communicating with other people while forming the group is social. The RDF removes all of them. Why should all of these factors live or die on the altar of convenience?

right all that spam LFM over and over and that afk flying err waittttt aahhh this is more sarcasm from you right??

[alexs]

Reading all the "hate" against RDF always amuses me. If you think it's social to use 5-10mins to travel to the summoning stone, then press a button to summon people in your group is social. Then I don't know what to say, I mean live in your own bobble I guess. For me, it's simply blizzard wasting my time and your time. I would get it if it was guild raid evening, but you are already social with these people on discord and hopefully most in your everyday life. A random group is not the same

[Relapses]

right all that spam LFM over and over and that afk flying err waittttt aahhh this is more sarcasm from you right??

It's not sarcasm. It's a legitimate question. Why is it okay to erode certain social elements of the game in the name of convenience?

[Dadwen]

It's not sarcasm. It's a legitimate question. Why is it okay to erode certain social elements of the game in the name of convenience?

because as you like to put it your social interaction is anecdotal and it does not line up with mine or a number of others social experiences.

[Relapses]

because as you like to put it your social interaction is anecdotal and it does not line up with mine or a number of others social experiences.

Then I ask again why your social experiences are more important than others? (Also, for the record, I've told you multiple times that I'm in support of the RDF being added. My position is simply that I understand Blizzard's reasons for not adding it amount to more than just "because fuck you, that's why.")

[Dadwen]

Then I ask again why your social experiences are more important than others? (Also, for the record, I've told you multiple times that I'm in support of the RDF being added. My position is simply that I understand Blizzard's reasons for not adding it amount to more than just "because fuck you, that's why.")

because mine had facts not feels, it does make lower servers\factions have more access to more the game, it does make lower dungeons more accessible to new players and late levelers\ats players and it does help those that play at odd hours for their server, these are facts not "it makes some of us feel less social". the game is as social as you make it RDF or not, but social can't pull players onto servers out of thin air.

plus your "social" experience is not completely deleted with RDF you still can form manual groups, nothing stopping you where as no RDF in the game it's a hard tough luck..

*I thought blizzard position in the last video was it was to slow people up and milk them for more money?

[Relapses]

because mine had facts not feels, it does make lower servers\factions have more access to more the game, it does make lower dungeons more accessible to new players and late levelers\ats players and it does help those that play at odd hours for their server, these are facts not "it makes some of us feel less social". the game is as social as you make it RDF or not, but social can't pull players onto servers out of thin air.

plus your "social" experience is not completely deleted with RDF you still can form manual groups, nothing stopping you where as no RDF in the game it's a hard tough luck..

I'm sorry, Mr. Shapiro, these facts you're harping on about aren't game issues. They're people issues.

[Katchii]

It's not sarcasm. It's a legitimate question. Why is it okay to erode certain social elements of the game in the name of convenience?

I don't see those as social interactions. I'm not saying they're not social, because they are, but they're just hoops I have to jump through to get to the content. The content is the only reason these people are interacting to begin with. Like standing in line at a grocery store, or on an elevator at a venue or something and interacting with the people around you, yeah that's social, but that's not why I'm there by a long shot.

You call them "social elements" I call them meaningless elevator talk.

Any social interactions I NEED to have, are going to happen within the dungeon itself or within my guild or through Discord.

RDF provides more value to me by getting me into the content I'm paying to experience than any fluffy mostly meaningless "elevator" talk I'm going to have putting a group together.

All that said, I'm getting by just fine without it, but my experience within WotLK Classic would be significantly improved if it were added. So I hope it does, but the sky is not falling as the game is now.

[Dadwen]

I'm sorry, Mr. Shapiro, these facts you're harping on about aren't game issues. They're people issues.

how so, people working odd hours should quit? players that join late should not have a chance to experience the game like others? everyone on a low server should just pay to move hope the next one does not die and pay to move again?

[Lora]

it didnt. only idiots think that it did.

[Relapses]

how so, people working odd hours should quit?

Yes. That is the definition of a person issue.

players that join late should not have a chance to experience the game like others?

Considering it's a choice when you come back to play the game, why yes, that is yet another person issue.

everyone on a low server should just pay to move hope the next one does not die and pay to move again?

This is a loaded question. You're assuming that any server you move to will die. The counterargument is that if the current player population is spread evenly among the servers they have, not only will queues disappear but this "dead server" problem you're worried about goes away too. Sadly, because Blizzard has yet to figure out a way to reprogram human psychology, players gravitate towards megaservers then blame Blizzard for the issues that come with them. There are ways to combat this issue which don't involve the RDF which I believe Blizzard should look into first.

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I don't see those as social interactions. I'm not saying they're not social, because they are, but they're just hoops I have to jump through to get to the content. The content is the only reason these people are interacting to begin with. Like standing in line at a grocery store, or on an elevator at a venue or something and interacting with the people around you, yeah that's social, but that's not why I'm there by a long shot.

You call them "social elements" I call them meaningless elevator talk.

Any social interactions I NEED to have, are going to happen within the dungeon itself or within my guild or through Discord.

It might be meaningless to you but it isn't to everybody. It feels kind of arrogant for us to assume that we know better because, again, we're putting everything on the altar of convenience. This "we know better" attitude is precisely what alienated a large portion of the playerbase who originally asked for Classic.

RDF provides more value to me by getting me into the content I'm paying to experience than any fluffy mostly meaningless "elevator" talk I'm going to have putting a group together.

I'm not arguing that the RDF wouldn't be widely used and supported. I realize it would and I realize that I'm arguing from a minority position. But I think the RDF argument is less about the feature's functionality and more about more that it represents a pretty stark ideological design direction shift (one which resonates even today with the retail version of the game) which you can't blame the Classic Blizzard devs for wanting to hold avoid.

All that said, I'm getting by just fine without it, but my experience within WotLK Classic would be significantly improved if it were added. So I hope it does, but the sky is not falling as the game is now.

This ambivalence is likely shared by a lot of the community. It's really only in echo chambers like here or Reddit that you see people pretending like the game lives or dies on whether the RDF is added.

[Dadwen]

Yes. That is the definition of a person issue.



Considering it's a choice when you come back to play the game, why yes, that is yet another person issue.



This is a loaded question. You're assuming that any server you move to will die. The counterargument is that if the current player population is spread evenly among the servers they have, not only will queues disappear but this "dead server" problem you're worried about goes away too. Sadly, because Blizzard has yet to figure out a way to reprogram human psychology, players gravitate towards megaservers then blame Blizzard for the issues that come with them. There are ways to combat this issue which don't involve the RDF which I believe Blizzard should look into first.

All those being issues are still facts *you putting the blame on the person is opinion, I blame Blizzard because I know they had fix that worked in the past really well but no matter who you blame that are fixable by game systems that did worked in the past, a number of people already rode the dead server\transfer reason why do you think so many are willing to put up with the queues. (you truly think if a person can't play at a normal time don't deserve play all\ should quit, or if you started late don't bother playing is a acceptable reasonable response just so you and a few others can have have a 15 second of social experience with people the odds you may never see or play with again).

If there were ways to combat them why have blizzard not implemented them this has been an issues on servers since a few months into BC, even found old twitter comments from Brian on faction issues early this year so it was known, if they have not come up with anything by now it seems they are out of ideas.

and all this does not take away from you still able to have your social group, you don't think there are enough like minded people that would want to have the same social experience as you?.

[Relapses]

All those being issues are still facts *you putting the blame on the person is opinion, I blame Blizzard because I know they had fix that worked in the past really well but no matter who you blame that are fixable by game systems that did worked in the past, a number of people already rode the dead server\transfer reason why do you think so many are willing to put up with the queues. (you truly think if a person can't play at a normal time don't deserve play all\ should quit, or if you started late don't bother playing is a acceptable reasonable response just so you and a few others can have have a 15 second of social experience with people the odds you may never see or play with again).

If there were ways to combat them why have blizzard not implemented them this has been an issues on servers since a few months into BC, even found old twitter comments from Brian on faction issues early this year so it was known, if they have not come up with anything by now it seems they are out of ideas.

and all this does not take away from you still able to have your social group, you don't think there are enough like minded people that would want to have the same social experience as you?.

What a weird way to twist the blame here, friend.

It is not Blizzard's fault if a player can only play from 2 AM to 6 AM on Tuesdays Thursdays and Sundays. It should not be Blizzard's job to ensure that a player with weird play time availability has the same experience as one who is available at a more normal time. It's a video game not fucking a way of life.

It is not Blizzard's fault that you decide to level 8 months after the initial expansion rush is over and can't find groups. Again, if the game were important enough for this to have mattered to you, you could have leveled when everybody else did.

And finally -- I can't speak as to why Blizzard seems unwilling to combat these issues thus far. If I'd wager a guess it's because they really would prefer to be as "hands-off" of Classic as possible and they simply don't have anybody on the team who cares enough about the plights of people stuck on dead/dying Classic realms to do anything meaningful. That said, I still don't think "fuck it, RDF it is" is the panacea for this issue. They shouldn't be treating Classic denizens as second class citizens and this is one of those issues that can help move things in the right direction again. We've already seen them introduce #SomeChanges. Perhaps it's time we push for more?

[Katchii]

It might be meaningless to you but it isn't to everybody. It feels kind of arrogant for us to assume that we know better because, again, we're putting everything on the altar of convenience. This "we know better" attitude is precisely what alienated a large portion of the playerbase who originally asked for Classic.

I'd wager that people will have varying degrees of "meaninglessness" attributed towards it.

Everyone has their own take and opinion which is fine, but IMO anyone seriously arguing that those particular social experiences (the ones that occur while a group is being formed, specifically)are what make or break the community in WoW are being a bit disingenuous.

If you truly want social interaction in the game, you'll get it. RDF or no.

I'm not arguing that the RDF wouldn't be widely used and supported. I realize it would and I realize that I'm arguing from a minority position. But I think the RDF argument is less about the feature's functionality and more about more that it represents a pretty stark ideological design direction shift (one which resonates even today with the retail version of the game) which you can't blame the Classic Blizzard devs for wanting to hold avoid.

Which I don't necessarily disagree with.

It's the same reasoning for why you don't give a toddler something dangerous, because they'll likely hurt themselves or someone else with it. RDF didn't kill the social aspect of the game, it's just the tool the community used to kill itself.

At least the random social interactions that happen. Anyone who wants a social, friendly, like minded community within WoW can find one and have the options and tools to do so.

This ambivalence is likely shared by a lot of the community. It's really only in echo chambers like here or Reddit that you see people pretending like the game lives or dies on whether the RDF is added.[/QUOTE]

As a whole? I agree with you, the game itself won't live or die because of RDF, however for some people it's a deal breaker one way or the other.