Be honest. How difficult is WotLK 5-man heroic?

[shoc]

Easily soloable as a tank, even more so when Vengeance was added.

[xenogear3]

That's idiotic. ilvl 200 is the REWARD for doing heroics, not the REQUIREMENT.
(and it's a grossly overtuned reward at that)

I never said that I don't run heroic.
For casual players, they only have time to run a few heroics a day.

The easy one (UK and Nexus) drops the same ilevel gear as the hard one.
Why not run the easy one?

[Biggles Worth]

They were easy overall. Occulus final boss being monkey brain check.

[Linkedblade]

14 years ago, I was a newb.
The pug I joined failed most of the time, especially HoS and HoL.

Assume Cataclysm Heroics is rated at 10.
MoP Heroics is rated at 1.
What is WotLK 5-man heroic rated?

LKC has been out for what? Not even two weeks? I have guildies that have completed the Northrend Hero achievement. I'd say they aren't difficult at all.

[Faerillis]

Base game ones? 3 or 4. The ICC patch Dungeons, were actually pretty solid for difficulty at like ~7ish?

[xenogear3]

LKC has been out for what? Not even two weeks? I have guildies that have completed the Northrend Hero achievement. I'd say they aren't difficult at all.

You cannot compare hardcore with casual players.
The hardcore can buy the craft helm, shoe, weapon and Darkmoon cards, especially that helm has a meta socket in it.

[Kalisandra]

You cannot compare hardcore with casual players.
The hardcore can buy the craft helm, shoe, weapon and Darkmoon cards, especially that helm has a meta socket in it.

The plate DPS helm was amazing, because it had no Stamina on it, and thus had a massive DPS budget. The Titansteel Destroyer was also a pretty good weapon to start with. I assume this still holds, and this means plate DPS has some nice pieces from early on (the supply of the crafted mats being the primary limit on supply of these).

- - - Updated - - -

Never seen either, both at the time and now. What I did see and experience and participate in, is boring faceroll in questing gear where I would just spam one key while watching something else on the second monitor because they were braindead easy. Blue gear was already overleveled for them, Naxx gear is ridiculous overkill.
I heard that people died on Loken, but that sounds like wrath babies not knowing how to play. Even in TBC gear we could just burn him mindlessly without bothering with dealing with the mechanics.

Poison Nova was nerfed, and I'm pretty sure Loken was as well. And getting pugs to do the interrupts right on the Rhino boss in Gundrak was a thing (and far, far fewer interrupts were available then) and if he changed on the first cast (or second in poor gear) you could have a 'healer goes oom' problem.

[NatePsy]

Not at all, but the playerbase will list groups with dumb demands as per usual

[FelPlague]

Not at all, but the playerbase will list groups with dumb demands as per usual

literally friday night, 4 days after wotlk launch, i just hit 80, was in full 78-80 blues, with 2 badge purples (having replaced my tbc pvp gear with these better items)
I join a heroic violet hold group, dude inspects me outside, wearing partial dungeon blues and tbc pvp gear, kicks me because "i am not fully enchanted" bro, what the fuck? i am enchanting my gear to level but like i aint gunna get full bis enchants for HEROIC DUNGEONS you serious?

[munkeyinorbit]

I agree.

You get faction reputation just by running normal dungeons.
The reward is ilevel 200.
For casual players, they only have time to run 3 heroic dungeons per day.
That is 10 Emblem of Heoroism per day.
There is a craft helm and a shoe.

It takes a month to get all a full set of ilevel 200.
A full set of Ilevel 200 should be enough to do all heroics.

I don't know if I should grind the rep/emblem or uninstall.
I did this before.

I wish the talent tree is the original WotLK launch, not 3.3.5

No.

Ilvl 200 is the reward. You don't need that to run heroics. If your 165ish and you are def capped and have spec appropriate gear then it's fine. Make a group and do it.

[Erolian]

I think this is probably the most confusing thread I've ever read about WoW. Wotlk heroics were some of the most relaxing and easy dungeon content ever added to wow in its entire history and now after having leveled to 80 and clearing them all again multiple times in 2022 I can confirm that even in leveling gear the only thing that could possibly stop you from easily walking through and clearing all of them is some sort of inability to learn to play your class at the most basic level while also refusing to even look at the screen while you're fighting the bosses lol. Its great and relaxing but there are no requirements to speak of and there is no difficulty whatsoever. There never was even in 2008 either and that's totally okay. Some people are just extremely bad at the game especially back then and might have somehow made it hard on themselves but anyone with even a modicum of effort towards figuring out how to play the game and a computer capable of playing it will have no issues whatsoever

[Dald]

Wotlk heroics we're/are pretty tame. There may be a few rough spots for certain groups, however.

The only heroics I would call anything close to difficult, were the cataclysm heroics during the first few weeks.

[Celarent]

Wotlk heroics were some of the most relaxing and easy dungeon content ever added to wow in its entire history

And therefore, fun. I *love* the fact I can hit 80, cobble together gear, then make smart use of abilities to be able to tank groups and get people in dungeons for the rest of the expansion. And it only gets *more* relaxing.

[Puupi]

They are piss easy.

[kingj56]

Wrath heroics were the easiest heroics EVER! The mechanics were as simple as the the previous xpacs and they hit soft af. Players were ALOT worse back in the day because all the resources werent available to be good including better computers and internet. Lag made alot of die which was a bottleneck. Now this shit is CAKE. I see a Naxx clear in 40mins or less. Possible 20 if they split up the 25man group to kill multiple bosses at once WHICH i can see happening.

[SinR]

dinged 80 tanked H UP just fine as a Prot Paladin. only 1 death and that was our healer that didnt run away on Skadi's whirlwind

[Thundering]

They are about as hard as tbc normal dungeons and they take like 15-20min to do with like 5min rpg.
So very easy.

Sadly this is just the same issue as retail Wotlk is basically retail game-play with classic design still there.

Aoeing dungeons and running through them due to all you need to really do is kill very. This is what lead to Another unnecessary difficulty called mythic....

[loras]

14 years ago, I was a newb.
The pug I joined failed most of the time, especially HoS and HoL.

Assume Cataclysm Heroics is rated at 10.
MoP Heroics is rated at 1.
What is WotLK 5-man heroic rated?

I'd say TBC early heroics were a 6 or 7 on that scale, WotLK like 4 or 5.

Though honestly cataclysm's heroics were just tedious; high tuning, not notably rewarding and long.
Honestly it would've been fine if they had just given them proper rewards, but raiders have always been whiners in that sense along the lines of "but we gathered MORE retards, we deserve BETTER rewahwahwahrds!".

[Akka]

And therefore, fun. I *love* the fact I can hit 80, cobble together gear, then make smart use of abilities to be able to tank groups and get people in dungeons for the rest of the expansion. And it only gets *more* relaxing.

And therefore, *UNFUN*. There is nothing engaging in plowing content in autopilot. If it was actually required to "make smart use of abilities", then it would be fun, but it isn't so it's just mind-numbingly boring. WotLK took a lot of flak (and rightly so) due to 5-man being such a shitty faceroll.

I don't need "hard" content to have fun, but I need to have at least some measure of challenge to overcome, not sleepwalk into reward (that don't feel rewarding at all because of it).

They are about as hard as tbc normal dungeons and they take like 15-20min to do with like 5min rpg.
So very easy.

They are VASTLY EASIER than TBC normals.
They are easier while theorically undergeared, than TBC normals were when theorically overgeared.

[Celarent]

There is nothing engaging in plowing content in autopilot.

But see, we're actually playing Wrath now instead of debating its merits, I'm enjoying myself no matter what you post on a forum, leaving you nothing to do but complain until 4.0 and I go back to my life, and that is a wonderful thing!