How does Dragonflight look so far, Good, bad, same as usual?

[r4vio928]

@FelPlague

Dude relax, you're acting like I kicked your puppy.

Yes, the incubus is what I was thinking, and as far as the animations. I still don't think it's a ton. Also, I'm pretty sure those 2 models you show use the same skeletons as previous enemies. Some might not care about that, but I think they should be adding unique skeletons every expansion, to add some variety to the re-used assets.

I mean if your argument is wow doesn't re-use assets, I dont know what to tell you. They re-use a huge amount of assets. I don't think any wow player would deny that, they may say they understand why, but I think they've gimped many parts of the game for the sake of maintaining a bottom line for investors, and seeing what corners they can cut from the player experience.

I mean we will truly never know if the return to simple talents, virtually no more systems, and no torghast is a design choice, or a monetary decision, but one thing is forsure, theyd never tell us, and they'd promote the game as hard as they could, saying all the changes were because "they are listening".

I've seen this first hand as a manager. I'm not guessing this happens. With a product decline, this happens. With a product uptrend, it's the opposite.

[Civciv]

Why is he that mad?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yes, the incubus is what I was thinking, and as far as the animations. I still don't think it's a ton. Also, I'm pretty sure those 2 models you show use the same skeletons as previous enemies. Some might not care about that, but I think they should be adding unique skeletons every expansion, to add some variety to the re-used assets.

What expansion haven’t we gotten unique skeletons? The incubus is almost without a doubt a copy of the Drac’s not the other way around given that it came out like a weak or two after announcement and we are also getting fully new Gnoll’s and a couple of dragon spawn Otters and ducks off the top of my head.

[Revamp Man]

Dragonflight is just the xth iteration of Legion content modes with a lack of meaningful new features. It's basically Legion / BfA / Shadowlands with less diversity when it comes to content. The only plus is supposed build diversity due to the talent system, but that's it. Players will get bored quicker in Dragonflight than ever before by the lack of things to do (sorry, open world questing and events are not covering the loss of everything else).

Shadowlands had torghast and the maw as launch endgame and arguably covenant features

Dragonflight has
Reps on par with covenants for rewards
Storyline and events unlocked via renown
Crafting that actually has meaning now
Dragonriding collections and races

But yeah you're right I'm gonna miss running torghast twice a week and killing a rare

[bloodmoth13]

Beta testers also said Torghast was very fun.

Torghast is fun though.

The only reason i think anyone would think otherwise is that they only care about gear and the shortest path to it.

[FelPlague]

@FelPlague

Dude relax, you're acting like I kicked your puppy.

Yes, the incubus is what I was thinking, and as far as the animations. I still don't think it's a ton. Also, I'm pretty sure those 2 models you show use the same skeletons as previous enemies. Some might not care about that, but I think they should be adding unique skeletons every expansion, to add some variety to the re-used assets.

I mean if your argument is wow doesn't re-use assets, I dont know what to tell you. They re-use a huge amount of assets. I don't think any wow player would deny that, they may say they understand why, but I think they've gimped many parts of the game for the sake of maintaining a bottom line for investors, and seeing what corners they can cut from the player experience.

I mean we will truly never know if the return to simple talents, virtually no more systems, and no torghast is a design choice, or a monetary decision, but one thing is forsure, theyd never tell us, and they'd promote the game as hard as they could, saying all the changes were because "they are listening".

I've seen this first hand as a manager. I'm not guessing this happens. With a product decline, this happens. With a product uptrend, it's the opposite.

Where did I say no reused assets? You said no new animations I said and showed you tons of new animations and now you say "a couple new animations" I show you new skeleton you say "not new" when it is def new...

Every expansion adds some new skeletons, but few expansions have added more then a couple, because entire new skeletons are super fucking expensive. And why make new ones when old ones work fine?

"Return to simple talents" bro our current talents are simple, do you really think the talent trees were easier then just... Adding another 3 point row to our old ones? How delusional do you gotta be mate?
"Virtually no more systems" there is lots, but they are non-consequensial, small and with little to no power, because we have been complaining about countless power gated systems for a whole decade at this point. "No todghast" todghast was awful why would you want more?

They are listening, adding talent trees back is something we have asked for since mop, and adding talent trees back is not "easier" my dude, come on now this has to be trolling right?

But you wanna know why I'm mad? Cause the evidence takes literally seconds to do you research, and just as long to prove you wrong, yet you are too lazy to do it, and too ignorant to accept it. I showed you just how many new animations got added to FOUR models. And there is how many on dragonflight? And you spout nonsense about no new skeletons, no new animations, no new systems, when if you spent 10 seconds on beta, or hell a minute on wowhead you would see how wrong that is. Do your own research, instead of spouting stuff you have no understanding in, then denying shit when someone else shows you the actual research, it's exhausting.

[Rageonit]

Torghast is fun though.
The only reason i think anyone would think otherwise is that they only care about gear and the shortest path to it.

Thorgast is indeed fun, but the best aspect of it - trying out new power combinations - wears down rather quickly (esp. for some classes, when you quickly discover there's that one op power you want in every run, like Resto Shamans Bottle of Swirling Maelstrom etc,). And in most cases, beta testers didn't get to the point where it was becoming rather samey. But it can be said of almost every other aspect of WoW; after all, repeatedly killing the same raid boss ain't that fun either, but you do it for the thrill of the reward - and Thorgast didn't have that.

[r4vio928]

Where did I say no reused assets? You said no new animations I said and showed you tons of new animations and now you say "a couple new animations" I show you new skeleton you say "not new" when it is def new...

Every expansion adds some new skeletons, but few expansions have added more then a couple, because entire new skeletons are super fucking expensive. And why make new ones when old ones work fine?

"Return to simple talents" bro our current talents are simple, do you really think the talent trees were easier then just... Adding another 3 point row to our old ones? How delusional do you gotta be mate?
"Virtually no more systems" there is lots, but they are non-consequensial, small and with little to no power, because we have been complaining about countless power gated systems for a whole decade at this point. "No todghast" todghast was awful why would you want more?

They are listening, adding talent trees back is something we have asked for since mop, and adding talent trees back is not "easier" my dude, come on now this has to be trolling right?

But you wanna know why I'm mad? Cause the evidence takes literally seconds to do you research, and just as long to prove you wrong, yet you are too lazy to do it, and too ignorant to accept it. I showed you just how many new animations got added to FOUR models. And there is how many on dragonflight? And you spout nonsense about no new skeletons, no new animations, no new systems, when if you spent 10 seconds on beta, or hell a minute on wowhead you would see how wrong that is. Do your own research, instead of spouting stuff you have no understanding in, then denying shit when someone else shows you the actual research, it's exhausting.

Sorry man, red flags all over you.

[FelPlague]

Sorry man, red flags all over you.

Cause you said a bunch of stupid things, got proven wrong, and chose to double down, aight, have a nice night then.

- - - Updated - - -

Thorgast is indeed fun, but the best aspect of it - trying out new power combinations - wears down rather quickly (esp. for some classes, when you quickly discover there's that one op power you want in every run, like Resto Shamans Bottle of Swirling Maelstrom etc,). And in most cases, beta testers didn't get to the point where it was becoming rather samey. But it can be said of almost every other aspect of WoW; after all, repeatedly killing the same raid boss ain't that fun either, but you do it for the thrill of the reward - and Thorgast didn't have that.

Thing is beta testers did, however in the heroic runs, the first couple floors were hell, the next 20 floors were fun, then the last 40 floors were boring as all fuck as you literally just ran through a maze 1 shorting anything that got near you, which is fun for like a minute, and the 20 floors mobs died in a hit of two was fun, now the next 40 are not, however they were overshown by streamers overreacting and yelling to chat about how amazing it is the big numbers like "omfg I just hit that moh for 100 mil!" Yeah super amazing, you are hitting every mob for the next 2 hours for 100 mil. Can we just finish already?

Which is why I'm glad they removed heroic, issue is while doing that fixed the short term problem, the long term problem of as you said, same broken combo every single time got boring, something we didn't get to experience much on beta since everyone tried a wide variety of classes (something on live we didn't have time to do) and only had a limited beta time to try it.

Sorta like garrisons, the amount of time we had to try it was just enough that we didn't hit the boring part. By the time we maxed the Garrison's and started to go "wait, now what?" Beta was over.

[Yriel]

I still wonder, 15 pages after, what are all these self-proclaimed casuals, are gonna be doing on the most empty raid logging expansion they have announced the last 12 years.

Perfect for me and my alts, but i really wonder how many pointless cosmetic craps you guys can farm before you cry about lack of content.

Well for me this will be the first wow expansion that i'll skip. I could imagine other casuals do that, too.

[r4vio928]

Cause you said a bunch of stupid things, got proven wrong, and chose to double down, aight, have a nice night then.

You got mad over somebody disagreeing, and you think you won? This is an opinion website, people will have vastly different opinions. Being aggressive because somebody thinks differently about the same set of facts is not healthy. You understand that from your pov, you think you’ve proven something without a doubt..to yourself, but people can and will disagree. Based on what you showed me, I do not think that’s a ton, and I think they should be adding way more than what you showed for animations, models and skeletons each expansion.

I really feel bad for you. You can’t be happy being like this right? Like, I think you may need help, if you’re getting mad because somebody thinks Dragonflight could use more animation, and new skeletons. Then that’s an issue. You should get checked out, and I’m not even joking, or making fun. I think you have anger issues, and that can ruin somebodies life. You know you were taking a ton of what I was saying out of context? It must have been because of anger. I guarantee, this anger has nothing to do with me.

Is it wow? Are you frustrated with it? Or guild-mates? Home life?

[InsightTimer37]

Just FYI, Warlords of Draenor was also highly praised within it's first couple weeks from launch. That changed quickly towards the middle and end of the expansion.

I think almost all expansions experience some form of "honeymoon" period right at launch. It's new and there are lots of places to explore. But after a while the new car smell fades and people are left wondering "That's it?". Of course some of those people speed rush through the leveling portion of the game to get to the end game as fast as possible.

Very true and many people forget this basic fact. Blizzard need to be better at delivering more frequent quality content. People don't want to be bored doing the same thing for months and months after an expansion is launched.

[bloodmoth13]

Thorgast is indeed fun, but the best aspect of it - trying out new power combinations - wears down rather quickly (esp. for some classes, when you quickly discover there's that one op power you want in every run, like Resto Shamans Bottle of Swirling Maelstrom etc,). And in most cases, beta testers didn't get to the point where it was becoming rather samey. But it can be said of almost every other aspect of WoW; after all, repeatedly killing the same raid boss ain't that fun either, but you do it for the thrill of the reward - and Thorgast didn't have that.

Thats exactly it. I dont think anything is meant to be repeated over and over like that solo. Its a blast the first dozen or more times you do it, but when you only play it for rewards and its a speedbump, the long time it takes to get through makes you hate it.

I think a massive problem with this game is people thinking things are fun because of the psychological tricks employed to make people repeat content (RNG drops and gambling hooks) and that content that is genuinely fun is boring because it doesnt have those kinds of rewards.

There is a lot of terrible criticism of parts of this game where blizz add in new content that is actually great fun but gets panned because the rewards arent great or the queues are too long or its too time consuming etc. The content itself can be amazing but if time investment doesnt pay off or if there isnt a chance for it to pay off players get annoyed and complain.

I still have fun in there leveling alts through it and just cycling through my dozen or so alts to avoid leveling content. Its just a fun silly mode where you get to be a god for a few floors and face absurd bosses while wielding absurd powers. It has RNG hooks through gameplay, not rewards (there are rng rewards though) which makes it quite interesting trying to cobble together a super synergetic build with the powers you get and playing your class in a different way.

I think there is valid criticism to be had with it but i genuinely hope they bring it back, or something similar, in the future.

What i would like to see is an evergreen version of torghast thats in the caverns of time.
With the caverns of time as the center instead you could use literally every zone in the game from any time in the game. you could do one floor in the war of the ancients, the next in the siege of orgrimmar, another during the troll wars, another in the black empire, another from vanilla wow in the wailing caverns etc etc. The biggest issue was variety and theme for the most part, every wing being a torture dungeon got pretty bleak pretty fast. Getting goofy powers tied to a zone could be fun too for more roguelike gameplay.

[Nyel]

Shadowlands had torghast and the maw as launch endgame and arguably covenant features

Dragonflight has
Reps on par with covenants for rewards
Storyline and events unlocked via renown
Crafting that actually has meaning now
Dragonriding collections and races

But yeah you're right I'm gonna miss running torghast twice a week and killing a rare

You read what I wrote, but you didn't comprehend it. Reputations and storyline (whatever that is) is outdoor content, aka same old (world) quests. Stuff we have since Legion. Crafting has as much of a meaning as it had in the last expansions. They revamped Crafting in Legion and it lasted... not for long. They gave professions a reason to exist with legendaries in Shadowlands and it lasted... not for long. How long do you think this completely new (/s) crafting will last or even entertain people? Yes, it's good that they did something with professions. But this is not content or even worthy to be called a feature. It's improved crafting. I give you dragonriding, although that's just a fluff feature, but can keep players entertained for some time (hardly content though).

In the end we're down to what I said. Dragonflight is open world content akin to the last three expansions and nothing more than that (raids and dungeons are the vanilla standard and shouldn't be counted). It's basically mimicking WoD when it comes to types of content (not amount) - we'll see how it works out in the end, I'm doubtful it will keep players entertained for long.

[Revamp Man]

Beta testers also said Torghast was very fun.

ok just to be 100% honest here
it was fun at first
then blizzard gutted it and the feedback from the testers was that it felt worse but the feedback from forums and twitter was "no you dont get it it wasnt fun they fixed it"

[FelPlague]

You got mad over somebody disagreeing, and you think you won? This is an opinion website, people will have vastly different opinions. Being aggressive because somebody thinks differently about the same set of facts is not healthy. You understand that from your pov, you think you’ve proven something without a doubt..to yourself, but people can and will disagree. Based on what you showed me, I do not think that’s a ton, and I think they should be adding way more than what you showed for animations, models and skeletons each expansion.

I really feel bad for you. You can’t be happy being like this right? Like, I think you may need help, if you’re getting mad because somebody thinks Dragonflight could use more animation, and new skeletons. Then that’s an issue. You should get checked out, and I’m not even joking, or making fun. I think you have anger issues, and that can ruin somebodies life. You know you were taking a ton of what I was saying out of context? It must have been because of anger. I guarantee, this anger has nothing to do with me.

Is it wow? Are you frustrated with it? Or guild-mates? Home life?

Lol are we really trying to play armchair psychiatrist because you got called out for being wrong?

[Nymrohd]

Thorgast is indeed fun, but the best aspect of it - trying out new power combinations - wears down rather quickly (esp. for some classes, when you quickly discover there's that one op power you want in every run, like Resto Shamans Bottle of Swirling Maelstrom etc,). And in most cases, beta testers didn't get to the point where it was becoming rather samey. But it can be said of almost every other aspect of WoW; after all, repeatedly killing the same raid boss ain't that fun either, but you do it for the thrill of the reward - and Thorgast didn't have that.

I think part of it is that there isn't much variety in the mobs as well. Imo the bosses should have had actual mechanics and there should be far more variety in theme. THis was Torghast, we kept seeing the Jailer throwing chains and dragging parts of the Shadowlands, they could have easily added areas that looked like the other zones of Shadowlands (including Tazavesh and Korthia).

[Revamp Man]

You read what I wrote, but you didn't comprehend it. Reputations and storyline (whatever that is) is outdoor content, aka same old (world) quests. Stuff we have since Legion. Crafting has as much of a meaning as it had in the last expansions. They revamped Crafting in Legion and it lasted... not for long. They gave professions a reason to exist with legendaries in Shadowlands and it lasted... not for long. How long do you think this completely new (/s) crafting will last or even entertain people? Yes, it's good that they did something with professions. But this is not content or even worthy to be called a feature. It's improved crafting. I give you dragonriding, although that's just a fluff feature, but can keep players entertained for some time (hardly content though).

In the end we're down to what I said. Dragonflight is open world content akin to the last three expansions and nothing more than that (raids and dungeons are the vanilla standard and shouldn't be counted). It's basically mimicking WoD when it comes to content - we'll see how it works out in the end, I'm doubtful it will keep players entertained for long.

so from the crafting ive done on beta you have
farm knowledge to craft stuff faster and better
get rewarded for using crafting orders and unlocking more patterns and cosmetics
little jimmy who is a skinner and miner can now get high level crafted gear in 90% of their slots compared to the last 3 expansions which were heavily restrictive
the crafting revamp is essentially making it vanilla crafting in terms of the social aspect while also giving you the legion experience of "oh hey i get extra stuff for being a crafter

as for world quests..they are definitely not what we have currently in SL unless you can point out the spots where you can climb mountains in SL instead of just killing enough mobs to fill a bar. You get to a high enough renown and you unlock hunting parties and cliff scaling and photography. You want a new system and are ignoring the new content and that is what led to the failures of the past.

you also cant compare this to WoD because just in the sense of crafting you cant farm all the crafting mats from your back yard. I get it man maybe the content isnt for you but dont claim it doesnt exist and dont claim its as shallow as the expansion that gave one daily quest and had apexis farm.

You can stay in the maw where you are gated to so many activities and in torghast where you run it twice and might have fun based on the slim chance you get a good build of powers and i will be over here farming primals for gold and gear

[FelPlague]

so from the crafting ive done on beta you have
farm knowledge to craft stuff faster and better
get rewarded for using crafting orders and unlocking more patterns and cosmetics
little jimmy who is a skinner and miner can now get high level crafted gear in 90% of their slots compared to the last 3 expansions which were heavily restrictive
the crafting revamp is essentially making it vanilla crafting in terms of the social aspect while also giving you the legion experience of "oh hey i get extra stuff for being a crafter

as for world quests..they are definitely not what we have currently in SL unless you can point out the spots where you can climb mountains in SL instead of just killing enough mobs to fill a bar. You get to a high enough renown and you unlock hunting parties and cliff scaling and photography. You want a new system and are ignoring the new content and that is what led to the failures of the past.

you also cant compare this to WoD because just in the sense of crafting you cant farm all the crafting mats from your back yard. I get it man maybe the content isnt for you but dont claim it doesnt exist and dont claim its as shallow as the expansion that gave one daily quest and had apexis farm.

You can stay in the maw where you are gated to so many activities and in torghast where you run it twice and might have fun based on the slim chance you get a good build of powers and i will be over here farming primals for gold and gear

There is also dragon flying world quests where you fly through bugs, fly through rings, and race. Oh also crafting gear too, like actual armor with stats but for crafting.

[xilla]

Unless there's an update with the engine of the game, it will be looking same as usual to me.