Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[rhorle]

The watchtower doesn't even need to be shown being destroyed.

So then why would it be destroyed in the scene where the mechanism is activated? Everything you keep calling filler is not filler. It is part of the plot and story that explains how and why things happen the way they do. Something you've criticized in the past when it isn't shown the screen and just happens. You can re-write and re-film the show to not have those parts but you can't just edit it out.

[Triceron]

So then why would it be destroyed in the scene where the mechanism is activated?

Is the watchtower being destroyed necessary for the mechanism to work?

Everything you keep calling filler is not filler. It is part of the plot and story that explains how and why things happen the way they do.

It's not necessary to the main plot, which is actually driven by Galadriel's storyline. As I said, everything we need to know happening in the South was conveniently figured out in Numenor, through Galadriel and Halbrand. Halbrand was already a source of exposition for everything happening in the Southlands. Everything he said was on point.

Something you've criticized in the past when it isn't shown the screen and just happens. You can re-write and re-film the show to not have those parts but you can't just edit it out.

You sure can. Watch the Maple cut trailer of the Hobbit.

Obi-wan TV series had a fan edit around scenes to make the story more coherent and concise just be rearranging scenes, cutting filler (young Leia being chased by adults) and inserting some voice over dialogue where it fits as a memory or internal monologue.

And again, I point to that Seven trailer being a completely different tone of movie just with some fancy editing and music/voice work. No refilming at all, all scenes that exist in the movie. I literally gave you examples of what you're deeming impossible.

Rewriting would be a good option, but again it'd be pointless as saying that PJ and crew could have made a Hobbit film without Tauriel. It'd be missing the entire point of them literally creating this character for the sake of diversity.

[rhorle]

Is the watchtower being destroyed necessary for the mechanism to work?

The context is editing out scenes. So the Watchtower being "whole" in one instance and destroyed in another wouldn't work that well. We wouldn't be shown why or how it got destroyed. Arondir's arc is necessary to tell the story of the Southlands. Without those scenes there would be gaps in the story and things would just be randomly happening.

[Triceron]

The context is editing out scenes. So the Watchtower being "whole" in one instance and destroyed in another wouldn't work that well. We wouldn't be shown why or how it got destroyed. Arondir's arc is necessary to tell the story of the Southlands. Without those scenes there would be gaps in the story and things would just be randomly happening.

Then you're just nitpicking for the sake of it.

Why couldn't the watchtower get torn apart while Adar and his Orcs go there trying to find humans snd the hilt, which they think is there? Adar gives the order to search and some Orcs yell, while the watchtower crumbles as if being torn down by the Orcs. Done. It implies that Adar gave orders to search the place, to the point of tearing down the entire watchtower.

[rhorle]

Why couldn't the watchtower get torn apart while Adar and his Orcs go there trying to find humans snd the hilt, which they think is there? Adar gives the order to search and some Orcs yell, while the watchtower crumbles as if being torn down by the Orcs. Done. It implies that Adar gave orders to search the place, to the point of tearing down the entire watchtower.

You've criticized the show for not showing everything on screen and merely imply stuff. It is strange that it would be fine now.

[Triceron]

You've criticized the show for not showing everything on screen and merely imply stuff. It is strange that it would be fine now.

Couldn't find anything to argue with my example so you jump on this instead?

Yeah, you're done arguing.

[Orby]

Like i said, i didn't watch other reviews, barely watch the ones from RoP, and every time he critize the show he says what could have been done to make it better, he is not talking purely out of his ass.

From a guy who experts in weaponry and fighting, I know the guy is very knowledgeable (also his videos on castles is fantastic), as I said I have no issues with his knowledge on that front, its his nit picking, over analysing, and over the top hate of the show catering to the toxic fandoms that I have an issue with.

I mean going back to his sword autopsy, its like anyone who works in a certain profession, for example my sister is a nurse, and whenever she sees nurses or medical staff on TV act a certain way she would go 'they make it look so easy' or 'that's not how that works'. Things wills stand out to you if you are in that position. I had a friend who was a cop and he'd say if TV cop shows were accurate they'd be 70% of the movie of them doing paper work lol.

It can be fun to highlight bad chorography in shows or highlight things that are not accurate, if you are knowledgeable on that subject, but to a general audience no one really cares. (well until they see the videos highlighting it and then all of sudden people now care)

[Varodoc]

I loved the part where Galadriel stood firm and strong and didn't move an inch when the volcano erupted, while all the lesser men were fleeing and screaming like little girls. Slay queen is so brave in the face of oblivion, I am so proud of her!!

[Flurryfang]

Just rewatched the first 4 episodes of the show with a friend who had not seen the show yet, just so that we could compare opinions and find out if there was a bias.

Its interesting, that when rewatching the show, the first 2 episodes are not really bad. They are confusing, sure, but they set a number of interesting stories into motion.

And then comes episode 3.....God, why did they have to make numeanor like the most annoying place possible? Why is galadrial such a Bi#%¤? Its really here in this episode, that things just go to hell. The stories set in motion become very stale and the pacing of the show goes into a complete stop.

After that, its just the same. The likeablity of all the characters takes deep dives, because there is so little focus on them outside of showing them taking action.

I think that somewhere in there, there is a good story about elves, Numenorian men and dwarves inside this show, about Elrond setting up the scene for the creation of the rings with Durin and Celebrimbor, about Galadrial making allies with Numenor and fightning orcs in the southlands together with Elendil to save the home of Halbrand..... But that does not happen, because we have to have a story about Harfoots, a story about the people in the south(eventhough we have a good southland cahracter in Halbrand) and a story about an elf ranger caught by orcs.

Its just too much at the same time, too many stories that strangles each other for time on the screen and too many characters, that only get a fraction of what they need when it comes to development. Its really a shame, that they had to make it so broad, cause if they had made a much narrower story, i think it could have been really good.

[s_bushido]

I had a friend who was a cop and he'd say if TV cop shows were accurate they'd be 70% of the movie of them doing paper work lol.

I used to watch the LotR special features a lot around the time those movies came out, and when they were talking about the sword-fighting there was an anecdote about how someone went up to the guy overseeing the choreography (same guy who worked on stuff like Princess Bride and Star Wars). They said something to effect of "it wouldn't really go like this right?" and his response was something like "hah! it's the movies my boy!" I wish I could find the clip, but it's been over a decade since I watched those.

[Kumorii]

Been watching some lore videos mainly for my heightened interests this show spurred. Watched the Hobbit maple edit ( which really helped the series) and the LOTR movies.

Found this channel and video on how he would set up the series seasons. This video is made before the show released and is mostly him talking how he would've done it. He doesn't shit on RoP and focus more on the story itself even though he is clearly not liking the ideas of how RoP adapted it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9NR06-QtR8

His lore videos are very good from what I can tell and how he set up the season 1 and 2 in video above it sounds really interesting.

Maybe some of you might like it, if so... enjoy!

[Syegfryed]

From a guy who experts in weaponry and fighting, I know the guy is very knowledgeable (also his videos on castles is fantastic), as I said I have no issues with his knowledge on that front, its his nit picking, over analysing, and over the top hate of the show catering to the toxic fandoms that I have an issue with.

I don't think its over analyzing, its just a normal amount of criticism, well based and its not bs, its not even nitpicking because there is some bits he miss. He is also not commenting about the lore being butchered, because he is not versed about it, he could, and he could get a lot of fuel out of it.

Being over the top is obviously the character he put, it gives views cause some people think its funny, of course is not for everyone but hardly disregard what he say.

I mean going back to his sword autopsy, its like anyone who works in a certain profession, for example my sister is a nurse, and whenever she sees nurses or medical staff on TV act a certain way she would go 'they make it look so easy' or 'that's not how that works'. Things wills stand out to you if you are in that position. I had a friend who was a cop and he'd say if TV cop shows were accurate they'd be 70% of the movie of them doing paper work lol.

It can be fun to highlight bad chorography in shows or highlight things that are not accurate, if you are knowledgeable on that subject, but to a general audience no one really cares. (well until they see the videos highlighting it and then all of sudden people now care)

I disagree on that, even the general audience can see someone is being garbage at it.

Like, using your analogy, imagine a tv show about doctors and there is some guy making a heart surgery in someone else kidney, that is over the top absurd, just like aiming your sword for someone who is not even there.

[InfiniteCharger]

Yet he willingly gave information, contained with in, to people when inquiring about stuff. He never considered any of his works finished. Hence why up until his death he was fixing and changing things. Your reasoning of "published" has no merit because of how he treated all of his work. You don't have to like it but to call it a falsehood or nonsense is silly.

The biggest tale is that Canon incorporates those unpublished works. If we are to count them as things that Tolkien didn't want the public to see then only The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings matters to canon. I'm pretty sure you've used things from the work his son published that JRR never wanted to be public in discussions before. Most people that discuss Tolkien have. So it is silly to only draw the line now for "adaptations". It also ignores how Rings of Power is drawing from work that was published in addition to unpublished work. So your reasoning is even more irrelevant to the show.

You are dogding facts which is why this discussion is going in circles. He didn't publish those works. Your point about his personal discussions don't matter to this fundamental point. Those things weren't published and they were not part of any rights that he gave to United Artists. The only rights that he gave were for his two published books and that is it. Anything that happened after his death is irrelevant to the point that Tolkien himself did not finish the story of the 2nd age as seen in the fact that the works covering those other ages weren't published. And he did not intend for the appendices to LOTR to be the basis of the story for the 2nd age. No matter how much he was changing stuff in his notes or unpublished works, that doesn't change what was actually published and what rights were given before he died. Those did not change.

Again, I heard you the first time and no matter how many times you keep saying it, doesn't make it right.

So lets leave it, stop repeating yourself. You aren't making any sense and there is no need to keep retreading the same wrong point.

[Rageonit]

Again, I'm arguing that the entire role is unnecessary to Rings of Power's story.

And again, you're doing it not knowing the actual story. So to be precise, you're arguing that the character of Arondir is unnecessary to the story in the context of the small part of the story we actually know, which is obtuse. This whole debacle between you and rhorle is pointless, and serves only to give you a "I told you so" platform to preach from if - and that's a big if - Arondir indeed turns out to be unnecessary for the whole story.

[Orby]

I disagree on that, even the general audience can see someone is being garbage at it.

Like, using your analogy, imagine a tv show about doctors and there is some guy making a heart surgery in someone else kidney, that is over the top absurd, just like aiming your sword for someone who is not even there.

Well as much as we don't want to admit it, there are a lot of people who generally enjoy the show and didn't care about the sword choreography maybe if you watch nothing but grifter youtube channels you would assume that the show is a flop and no one likes it.

Luckily for me I watch a few reviewers of the show, and while its easily to flock to one point of view to feed the hivemind, its more healthy to catch a few opinions that differ and offer good and bad, instead of outragers painting with a broad brush with '(X) is bad so all is bad' attitude. And with that said no one I know thinks the show is a masterpiece or a great Tolkien adaptation. I think as an adaptations its failed, but that doesn't mean that you still cannot find things to like or enjoy. And its not my place to tell others they are wrong for liking it as much as me either.

The reviewers I been watching

Hello Future Me (TwotheFuture)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDT...xxCyRzA/videos

Daniel Greene
https://www.youtube.com/c/DanielGreeneReviews

Nerd of the Rings
https://www.youtube.com/c/NerdoftheRings

The Broken Sword
https://www.youtube.com/c/TheBrokenSword

And yes I have tried watching Shad's Knight's Watch channel too, but its a chore. There are only so many times you can hear the words 'forced diversity' and 'woke agendas' (paraphrasing here) before my brain just startied turning to mush.

[InfiniteCharger]

I get what you're trying to say, but my comparison again is to Xena's combat or Pro Wrestling. Plenty of stuff is tied to the real world, but it's all scripted out for the purpose of entertainment and cartoon-level dramatic effect more than an authentic realistic world. This is not Tolkien in whatever sense you actually want to consider it to be, it's an over-exaggerated version where the action is overdramatized for the sake of entertainment.

It doesn't matter what armor they're wearing or what weapons they're using if the characters are being protected by Plot Armor. Even main characters being skewered by arrows will end up walking it off by the end of the episode.

Your point seemed to be about fantasy not taking combat seriously, which isn't really true as in the "rules" around combat that have developed in D&D and MMOs as the epitome of fantasy to most people today. Xena had somewhat exaggerated action, which was done on a 90s tv budget and decent for what it was, but that show is not 'representative' of all fantasy. And so, beyond that, the point I was making is that the combat in Tolkien is basically an extension of medieval combat and not really far out and fantastical like World of Warcraft. This series doesn't take combat seriously at all which is why so many have commented on it, which has nothing to do with how Tolkien treated combat.

[kenn9530]

You are spouting absolute falsehoods. His work has been popular since the Hobbit was first published 85 years ago.

There is popular and only selling a few thousands copies here and there over many decades so you are talking nonsense, the books didnt sell that great at all in reality until the films released, thats considered popular not the small amount sold over several decades.

His writing is long winded and spends far too much time explaining pointless things, he also has many occasions where things just dont make sense so and his writing style is about mythology and history not about actually telling a story so yes his writing is not great at all.

[InfiniteCharger]

Have you forgotten where you are? This is a WoW forum. Extensive and in depth fictional histories with hosts of races and even made up languages are extremely common across fantasy settings in book series, video games, table top RPG’s, collectible card games, shows, and movies nowadays. It’s pretty much expected.

Tolkien’s depictions of dwarves, elves, orcs, goblins, etc have all pretty much become the generic versions that people think of. Being synonymous with “generic high fantasy” is a strength of Tolkien’s legacy.

Seriously? So you are saying that when Tolkien is the inspiration for all of these modern high fantasy stories? And the reason his work is not generic is because of the time he put into the history and mythology of Middle Earth, beyond just the two books. As such story of Middle Earth is very unique and distinct and that is why it is not "generic" fantasy. So while Tolkien didn't go as far with magic and other kinds of fantastical powers as they do in modern High Fantasy, that doesn't mean his work is generic.

And it all depends on how you define "generic" fantasy to begin with. For me, "generic" fantasy generally applies to movies and TV where they often aren't able to capture all the fantastical elements of written works or even video games. As a result what you get is something more "generic" meaning more grounded because of the practical needs of filming and production. And that extends into costumes, make up, special effects and so forth. And I would put this series in the category of being very generic because of the decisions they made.

[Lady Atia]

Well as much as we don't want to admit it, there are a lot of people who generally enjoy the show and didn't care about the sword choreography maybe if you watch nothing but grifter youtube channels you would assume that the show is a flop and no one likes it.

Luckily for me I watch a few reviewers of the show, and while its easily to flock to one point of view to feed the hivemind, its more healthy to catch a few opinions that differ and offer good and bad, instead of outragers painting with a broad brush with '(X) is bad so all is bad' attitude. And with that said no one I know thinks the show is a masterpiece or a great Tolkien adaptation. I think as an adaptations its failed, but that doesn't mean that you still cannot find things to like or enjoy. And its not my place to tell others they are wrong for liking it as much as me either.

The reviewers I been watching

Hello Future Me (TwotheFuture)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDT...xxCyRzA/videos

Daniel Greene
https://www.youtube.com/c/DanielGreeneReviews

Nerd of the Rings
https://www.youtube.com/c/NerdoftheRings

The Broken Sword
https://www.youtube.com/c/TheBrokenSword

And yes I have tried watching Shad's Knight's Watch channel too, but its a chore. There are only so many times you can hear the words 'forced diversity' and 'woke agendas' (paraphrasing here) before my brain just startied turning to mush.

Nerd of the Rings is actually quite positive and awesome to watch, none of this "woke agenda" bullshit. Are the other ones similiar to that?

Besides that, I also watch "Heavy Spoilers" and "Emergency Awesome" which also are on the fair spectrum of reviews, aswell as "New Rockstars" although I think they didn't put out a video about every episode yet.

[Gumble]

I loved the part where Galadriel stood firm and strong and didn't move an inch when the volcano erupted, while all the lesser men were fleeing and screaming like little girls. Slay queen is so brave in the face of oblivion, I am so proud of her!!

So they killed her? Elves are just as killable as humans, so a volcano would kill her right?

I assume she did that to save the people who were fleeing in some way to protect them from the exploding volcano and died to save the lives of others?

So she's dead? They are moving on to a new protagonist?