6 Week Catalyst

[Sinfelle]

For all the non-raiders complaining about 6 week catalyst. I agree with you 6 weeks is a long time. I'd ideally like 4 weeks but would even settle for 5.

The reason they won't go lower than that is because it would mess up raiding. Plain and simple. Tier is on the loot table of bosses, and if you had an easy guaranteed way to acquire it without having to necessarily down said boss it would mess with the pacing of progression and create "dead loot" a lot faster than intended.

The solution would be to completely remove tier from any drop table and have everyone acquire it through the catalyst at a set pace. BUT then they would need to create another incentive to keep raiders wanting to raid.

[Lochton]

Alas, wrong section.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/forums/...al-Discussions

And well, I don't mind if it is from the 6th week of the season, as it means raid teams are already working within the ladder.

[Sinfelle]

Alas, wrong section.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/forums/...al-Discussions

And well, I don't mind if it is from the 6th week of the season, as it means raid teams are already working within the ladder.

How's it the wrong section? 6 Week catalyst is already in the game.

[Caprias]

Weird how in wotlk right now you could get 2 set in the very first week and the game somehow didn't implode on itself...

[Lochton]

How's it the wrong section? 6 Week catalyst is already in the game.

I believe you are talking about Dragonflight Catalyst, am I not wrong? If so, the wrong section, if not, then you are way too late to the topic as there are no complaints currently about the catalyst wait time because there is no wait time in Shadowlands for it anymore, else, there is surely already a thread on one of the other pages.

[Lolites]

For all the non-raiders complaining about 6 week catalyst. I agree with you 6 weeks is a long time. I'd ideally like 4 weeks but would even settle for 5.

The reason they won't go lower than that is because it would mess up raiding. Plain and simple. Tier is on the loot table of bosses, and if you had an easy guaranteed way to acquire it without having to necessarily down said boss it would mess with the pacing of progression and create "dead loot" a lot faster than intended.

The solution would be to completely remove tier from any drop table and have everyone acquire it through the catalyst at a set pace. BUT then they would need to create another incentive to keep raiders wanting to raid.

i dont think anybody reasonable want it right at the start, 4weeks would be my preference too, and tbh, opening it sooner would be better for literaly everyone, even raiders, but some people are stuck in "im a raider others are scrubs" mentality, which prevents them from seeing they would benefit too

[Sinfelle]

Weird how in wotlk right now you could get 2 set in the very first week and the game somehow didn't implode on itself...

I'm not sure what you're getting at. What point are you trying to make? Do you understand the discussion at hand?

[Celement]

It won't mess up raiding... split runs ensure that everyone in the race has 4pc the first week. The six weeks will really only work to slow down people playing one character.

It's just time gating especially since the classes are balanced around having 4pc they are not bonuses.

[paxen]

The issue is that the catalyst is still catchup - the intended way to acquire tier gear is to raid. Even if that messes up PVP and M+, because you can M+ and PVP as much as you want, you still won't get set bonuses the first two months of the season (unless you luck out on the vault). They seem to have decided that raid needs the tier carrot, and M+ers better get their asses into raiding guilds and help fill out raids.

M+ invalidating heroic raid gear is another issue they need to fix, but this is very much a case of two wrongs not making a right.

It won't mess up raiding... split runs ensure that everyone in the race has 4pc the first week. The six weeks will really only work to slow down people playing one character.

I have no clue at exactly what point split runs start (it should be only relevant for RWF and possibly top 50 guilds or something, but players are sweaty and probably do split runs way further down then that), but the devs should not plan on the average raider doing split runs.

[Sinfelle]

It won't mess up raiding... split runs ensure that everyone in the race has 4pc the first week. The six weeks will really only work to slow down people playing one character.

It's just time gating especially since the classes are balanced around having 4pc they are not bonuses.

There's a very small number of guilds that do split runs. This isn't about them, nor should the top 1% ever be taken into consideration like this because they will always find some degen work-around.

and classes are not balanced around 4pc, it's the other way around.

- - - Updated - - -

I believe you are talking about Dragonflight Catalyst, am I not wrong? If so, the wrong section, if not, then you are way too late to the topic as there are no complaints currently about the catalyst wait time because there is no wait time in Shadowlands for it anymore, else, there is surely already a thread on one of the other pages.

The concept is already in the game and now an ever-green system as stated by the devs. A new iteration is in the beta, but the concept and implementation has not changed.

Please stop trying to white knight yourself into moderation

[AcidicSyn]

Sure I'd prefer 4 over 6, but only nominally. If I'm honest 4 or 6 or even 8 wouldn't affect me at all. I'm glad the catalyst is here to stay, though its not really game changing for me either, just something that's neat to have.

[Celement]

There's a very small number of guilds that do split runs. This isn't about them, nor should the top 1% ever be taken into consideration like this because they will always find some degen work-around.

and classes are not balanced around 4pc, it's the other way around.

- - - Updated - - -



The concept is already in the game and now an ever-green system as stated by the devs. A new iteration is in the beta, but the concept and implementation has not changed.

Please stop trying to white knight yourself into moderation

Well it either effects raiding or it doesn't you cant have both...

You can say you like time gating I guess. Seems weird to me but I gave up trying to understand what people enjoy a while ago.

[Sinfelle]

Well it either effects raiding or it doesn't you cant have both...

You can say you like time gating I guess. Seems weird to me but I gave up trying to understand what people enjoy a while ago.

Yeah because you are definitely in the same boat as world first raiders. 100%. But also completely missing the fuckin point.

Your second line doesn't even make any sense, but at this point I think you're beyond comprehension

[Celement]

Yeah because you are definitely in the same boat as world first raiders. 100%. But also completely missing the fuckin point.

Your second line doesn't even make any sense, but at this point I think you're beyond comprehension

What point am I missing...?

If you are racing the tier restrictions don't effect you. If you casually raid and do ce within a patch it can hinder you pointlessly early on.

Just say you like time gating don't make up weird justifications for it.

[Sinfelle]

What point am I missing...?

If you are racing the tier restrictions don't effect you. If you casually raid and do ce within a patch it can hinder you pointlessly early on.

Just say you like time gating don't make up weird justifications for it.

Did you wear a helmet during most of your school days or......?

At what point am I trying to make a case for or against time gating? READ (or have someone read it out loud for you) the original post. It states the concept and design philosophy behind why they do this, and what would have to change if people want it some other way.

IDGAF which way it goes because I'm a CE raider who gets tier fast anyways.

[suvzy11]

It won't mess up raiding... split runs ensure that everyone in the race has 4pc the first week. The six weeks will really only work to slow down people playing one character.

It's just time gating especially since the classes are balanced around having 4pc they are not bonuses.

Can you still do split runs when we'll have Group Loot?

[Sinfelle]

Can you still do split runs when we'll have Group Loot?

yes, but they won't be as effective.

[Eli85]

This topic is very strange, and in my opinion, completed disconnected from raider mentality.

No raider cares about dead loot. Gear, in raiding, is a means to an end. As soon as raiders have sufficient gear to down the boss, they no longer care about loot drops. So no raider is going to go, "Hey, I got my four piece from the catalyst. I'm not going to raid anymore." If you're going to put up with the scheduling, time commitment, cat herding, and difficulty of raiding, you need a lot more incentive than just exclusivity of gear (and, hint hint, no one gives a flying frog what other people have). The incentive to raiding is the social element and the fun and excitement of pushing hard content. Not gear.

If the catalyst came in right away, or sooner, it would produce two things: 1) players at all skill levels would push past boss walls faster, and 2) players at all skill levels would clear the tier sooner. Whether or not either of those are problems are up to you, but if Blizzard was concerned with it, tuning can fix it.

It's just so weird to me that people are still clinging to this false narrative that the high item level exclusivity of raiding gear is the primary thing keeping it afloat, and the dominant incentive. That's just so false.

[Celement]

Can you still do split runs when we'll have Group Loot?

Yes all loot is tradable its actually easier now.

[Sinfelle]

This topic is very strange, and in my opinion, completed disconnected from raider mentality.

No raider cares about dead loot. Gear, in raiding, is a means to an end. As soon as raiders have sufficient gear to down the boss, they no longer care about loot drops. So no raider is going to go, "Hey, I got my four piece from the catalyst. I'm not going to raid anymore." If you're going to put up with the scheduling, time commitment, cat herding, and difficulty of raiding, you need a lot more incentive than just exclusivity of gear (and, hint hint, no one gives a flying frog what other people have). The incentive to raiding is the social element and the fun and excitement of pushing hard content. Not gear.

If the catalyst came in right away, or sooner, it would produce two things: 1) players at all skill levels would push past boss walls faster, and 2) players at all skill levels would clear the tier sooner. Whether or not either of those are problems are up to you, but if Blizzard was concerned with it, tuning can fix it.

It's just so weird to me that people are still clinging to this false narrative that the high item level exclusivity of raiding gear is the primary thing keeping it afloat, and the dominant incentive. That's just so false.

Yeah that's just not true in any raid guild I've seen. How many times have you heard "I don't need anything from that boss, I'd rather sit if I can"? People sit on bosses all the time if they don't need shit from it. Especially bosses that may only have 2 or 3 items total for your spec. One of those drops is dogshit and you probably already got the other drop, that boss is dead to me.

Is item exclusivity the only reason people raid? Nope. But it's a pretty big fucking reason. I want the best shit, and I want to beat the hardest difficulty. If you take either of those away its less rewarding.