Be honest. How difficult is WotLK 5-man heroic?

[Th1ghsofSteel]

This point has been REPEATEDLY debunked, they were faceroll even in quest green.

I don't, and I am not part of the "hardcore minmaxer" crowd.

Yes they were, and already at the time people complained about it.

They were already ridiculously easy in the beginning, as we can notice right now.

They are even easier now than originally at this point, as we are using 3.3.5 patch.

[xenogear3]

This point has been REPEATEDLY debunked, they were faceroll even in quest green.

The last quests give blue gear.
You get ilevel 187 blue weapon from The Amphitheater of Anguish.
After you ding 80, you should be honor with most factions. Their rewards are ilevel 187 blue gear.

Do you even play this game?
or just make up stories and try to win the argument?

You might just say that you faceroll with no gear.
Like Dark Soul, you solo'ed level 80 heroics with a level 1 character.

[Nalam the Venom]

Not difficult at all.

The tank and healer needs some gear, But dps can just go in there with whatever gear tbh.

Just don't pull too much

[chrisisvacant]

None of it was hard, even back when it was new and fresh. That was the whole point of WotLK. It was easily accessible. They added in special things that made them fun like the mounts for doing certain things.

Easily accessible doesn't mean easy dungeons. I certainly don't recall that ever being a point of the dungeons. We didn't stomp through them on the first few patches.

There were plenty of things in these dungeons that would instagib you. The difference in WOTLK was trash. It's where aoe fests really began.

[Gimlix]

Easier than mop heroics.

Well MoP was the GOAT.

[Dalinos]

I like the difficulty, feels nice to not have to deal with the crap of TBC anymore.

Some have awful mechanics tho, all of Oculus sucks, Halls of Stone 3rd boss sucks, Culling of Stratholme sucks, Utgarde Pinnacle isn't great either.

Not you again. Seriously, not you again.

On topic, WOTLK heroics are dogshit easy for any organized raiding guild. Even back in 08, my Sunwell-clearing-raiding guild was fed up with the content WOTLK gave us. We got Red Proto-Drake in "Season 1" of Wrath back then, before Ulduar was even released, in our Naxx-25 gear. That's how easy they were. Cleared by the nerdy teen 17-year old versions of ourselves who were shitheads, hadn't even finished school, let alone Uni, and only had ~4 years of experience in the game.

What exactly did you all think would've happened in WOTLK classic? I'm pretty sure today's playerbase can walk in practically naked and clear those HC's. Barring some annoying trash-mobs in Old Kingdom and Halls of Stone that could 1-shot, I was tanking those HC's with 1 hand on my bear.

[Atherions]

WOTLK heroics are probably the easiest release dungeons of any exp

[DeltrusDisc]

This point has been REPEATEDLY debunked, they were faceroll even in quest green.

I don't, and I am not part of the "hardcore minmaxer" crowd.

Yes they were, and already at the time people complained about it.

They were already ridiculously easy in the beginning, as we can notice right now.

To be fair, the average player is better nowadays than the average player back then. Also, as others quoted you and mentioned, the heroics in their current state are not what they were at the launch of actual WotLK, suppose you weren't there or have a crap memory, that's fair. 3.3.5 had seen by then multiple nerfs to dungeons and overall buffs to player-power on a basic level. This is why these classic versions of the game aren't as enjoyable or long-lasting as they could be, or perhaps even, should be. When Vanilla classic launched, it launched with a very late version of Vanilla, that sure, had less bugs and such, but the raids had been nerfed pretty severely by then, they were no longer in their launch status. Same with TBC. Same with Wrath. And it will continue on. I'd honestly rather go back to earlier patches for these than the very ending. The very ending is when things got stupid and well, boring. Actual WotLK launch, with patch 3.0 data, not 3.3.5, had harder dungeons. Simple as that.

[Frozen Death Knight]

Very easy. Arguably the easiest Dungeons in all of WoW. The only Heroic Dungeon that was even remotely challenging was Halls of Lightning, but once you got some extra ilvls it too was a breeze. I still remember running around in quest greens and some blues and still being able to clear them with no issue.

[Biglog]

The problem is that 'difficult' is very subjective. There are 2 ways to look at it. When released originally, most of them were hard and had many wipes (and anyone who says otherwise didn't do them then) since there were some new mechanics in wotlk dungeons that took some getting used to. More than a decade later after everyone did them all a million times in wotlk, and then another million times in timewalking, plus 12 years of tuning down and fixes, and they aren't so bad in Classic now.

[tikcol]

Cataclysm heroics were the right way to do it. They should have buffed wotlk heroics by 30% atleast from the get go as they did to naxx.

[Usernameforforums]

Well MoP was the GOAT.

MoP was great

[DeltrusDisc]

The problem is that 'difficult' is very subjective. There are 2 ways to look at it. When released originally, most of them were hard and had many wipes (and anyone who says otherwise didn't do them then) since there were some new mechanics in wotlk dungeons that took some getting used to. More than a decade later after everyone did them all a million times in wotlk, and then another million times in timewalking, plus 12 years of tuning down and fixes, and they aren't so bad in Classic now.

This exactly. Most people are remembering the heroics in their nerfed forms in later Wrath along with their buffed gear.

But, let's all not forget, the Wrath heroics that launched with ICC were seriously no joke. The only one that never, ever, gave me a headache was Forge of Souls. I remember hearing about countless groups giving up on Pit of Saron and Halls of Reflection. Those two needed some heavy nerfing. Timewalking Pit of Saron has had a tendency to be an issue, since everyone has their ilevel nerfed down to barely blues and Pit wasn't the average heroic, it required higher ilevel.

[crusadernero]

They were piss easy back in the day, they are piss easy now. They always were and always will be. No idea why ppl thought it would be difficult.

[cozzri]

The dungeons were suppose to get easier as you find more gear.... It's kind of the whole point of an RPG.

The scaling in retail WoW creates artificial layers of difficulty that cheapen the experience to feed ilvl addicts; it's sad how the devs exploit the playerbase desire to min/max like this.

After the dungeons became faceroll, the fun shifted to going after dungeon achievements, getting some badges to bolster your raid items, maybe complete your set bonus.

Like others have said, many remember the days of group finder badge run spam to get tier sets and not the earlier days, however short lived they were, the dungeons served their purpose and continued to so throughout the expansion.

[xenogear3]

I tanked all heroics except HoL, CoS, UP and Ocu.
People are doing more dps than 14 years ago which 1500 was a good dps.
With ilevel 187 gear, I have 24k HP. That is clearly more than 14 years ago.

WotLK classic is not the same.
No reason to compare the difficulty.
I think I just wasted $15 and 100 hours for leveling a DK from level 55 to 80.
The bright side is that I didn't level a class from level 1 to 80. That would be silly.

[peterpan007]

I remember back in original WoTLK it was not uncommon to wipe more than once to heroic dungeons, some dungeons more specifically than others.

Saying that, I'm sure most of the playerbase did not have guides or addons to tell them what to do, or where not to stand.

Now, boss encounter addons tell you when to move or do something, making it really hard to fail.

[SinR]

I tanked all heroics except HoL, CoS, UP and Ocu.
People are doing more dps than 14 years ago which 1500 was a good dps.
With ilevel 187 gear, I have 24k HP. That is clearly more than 14 years ago.

WotLK classic is not the same.
No reason to compare the difficulty.
I think I just wasted $15 and 100 hours for leveling a DK from level 55 to 80.
The bright side is that I didn't level a class from level 1 to 80. That would be silly.

100 hours for leveling?

[Thes]

I remember back in original WoTLK it was not uncommon to wipe more than once to heroic dungeons, some dungeons more specifically than others.

Saying that, I'm sure most of the playerbase did not have guides or addons to tell them what to do, or where not to stand.

Now, boss encounter addons tell you when to move or do something, making it really hard to fail.

We had all the same addons back then and even then no Wrath heroic required any of that.

They were piss easy in '08 and they are piss easy now.

[peterpan007]

We had all the same addons back then and even then no Wrath heroic required any of that.

They were piss easy in '08 and they are piss easy now.

I remember wiping on heroics as a normal thing - so if they were easy back then, then I guess my realm just had lots of new players or I just always grouped with new players.

Though doing heroics now they're cake.