Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Levelfive]

Didn't read the article did you? They bent over backwards to say "see, our first few episodes had alot of viewers!"..... please ignore that we haven't provided real numbers or how its gone since the first episode....

They have moved the filming location because it costs too much, there have been reports of them cutting back the budget because the show isn't generating the response they hoped for, and the fan sites are all about House of the Dragon.

You can wager that Bezos is actually quite upset at how poorly his show is doing compared to HBO's show, especially given the massive price tag.


Season 2 is set to be delayed a long time, which gives them time to cancel it during the long break if they cannot find a way to fix it.

By all means, link your sources, then. Because otherwise it sounds like you're making stuff up: "The Rings of Power, Amazon's mega-budget TV prequel to Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings film franchise, is closing on 100 million viewers according to streamer big wig Jennifer Salke. For context: that's the entire population of the UK and a whole lot of change, a month on from its premiere at the beginning of September. And the series, estimated to cost £49 million per episode, is just in its first of five seasons. Notably, Amazon already confirmed early in September that The Rings of Power was their biggest premiere of all time.

Salke revealed the huge viewership figs in conversation with Variety. “We're cresting toward 100 million customers having watched it so… it's a big number,” she told the magazine. No kidding. “We really anticipate, with these last three episodes, a huge turnout, because it's all coming together and curiosity is at a fever pitch. And these last few episodes are the strongest in the season, because they're not just about setup. They're excellent.”

The first season was given a gargantuan $450 million (approx. £395 million in current fluctuating rates, depending on the day) price tag, which Salke attributes to “building infrastructure for five seasons.” What does that include? Nowt less than a “small city,” apparently. “We were always going to spend what we needed to spend to get it right,” she continues. “I think it was all money really well spent. If you look at how people are reacting to the visual experience of the show, that's been overwhelmingly positive.” And indeed, at least audiences can see what's happening on screen — unlike the other mega-franchise fantasy TV prequel on air.

So how have critics responded to the show so far? Early reviews of the first season give it an 84% aggregate score on Rotten Tomatoes, with the latest episode, “Udün,” being called “The Rings of Power's most conventionally satisfying" yet. It's taken a while to get through the tomes of Tolkienian lore and hefty setup, but the show finally looks as though it's paying dividends — not to imply that the production value was ever in question. “Moment for moment, this is the most exciting episode of The Rings of Power we've seen,” wrote Vulture critic Keith Phipps in his five-star review.

Elsewhere, The Hollywood Reporter confirmed that season two has started filming just outside London, moving away from New Zealand where the debut season shot during the Covid pandemic. It's set to introduce Círdan, “the oldest and wisest of the elves,” who is yet to be cast. Let's see if we can't get a hold of Bezos' notes…"

The embedded link refers to the first 2 episodes being streamed 25 million times, which means the first 3rd, as of the GQ article, got roughly a fourth of the total.

Here's more: "Based on Salke's comments, it sounds like Amazon Studios is fast-tracking Rings of Power season 2 and working tirelessly to get it out for audiences as soon as possible. This is hardly a surprise given the show's first official Nielsen ratings were recently released and revealed that Rings of Power topped the streaming charts in its debut week with a whopping 1.3 billion minutes watched just for the first two episodes. Viewership should only increase during the ramp-up to the season 1 finale. With audience turnout so high, it makes sense for Amazon to deliver a second season before interest has a chance to dwindle.

With Amazon Studios intent on fast-tracking production, Rings of Power season 2 could premiere a lot sooner than initially expected. Filming is already underway, though considering the show's huge production scale, it likely won't be ready to air until late next year at the earliest. But make no mistake, a late 2023 release date would still be an impressively quick turnaround for The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power season 2."

And more: "Rings of Power Season 2 is full steam ahead – and one of the oldest elves and ring bearer will be joining the story.

The show has set some hefty records for the streaming service. The first official Neilson Ratings reported that there was 1.25 billion minutes of viewing time (an average of 9.5 million viewers) following its Sept. 1 premiere, making it one of their top debuts. It’s hard to argue that this hasn’t been a success for them, as much as you may hate the show. Based on the numbers, Amazon’s gamble has paid off.

Due in part to this success, Season 2 started filming before Season 1 has finished airing."


The articles I linked are from 10/4-10/5--doesn't sound to me like he's real upset. Like if you hate the show, whatever, you're free to do that, but this need some of you have to prove the world hates it with you so far is going unmet.

[s_bushido]

If you actually trust what sycophant media and what Amazon says their numbers are, I've got a bridge to sell you.

"Anything that contradicts my preconceptions must be a conspiracy to lie to everyone!"

Pathetic.

[Levelfive]

"Anything that contradicts my preconceptions must be a conspiracy to lie to everyone!"

Pathetic.

Lol so much copium. I wonder why it's not sufficient for them to hate it, they have to convince themselves everyone else does, too.

[bledgor]

...

I mean you ignoring the massive negative press/reviews/online presence the show has, the fact all outside data (since Amazon has been SILENT on numbers other than the release) show it dropping (see earlier in the thread, think even episode 1 to 2 was a 30% drop). Not to mention you have outdated news since Season 2 was forced to be delayed when they moved filming from New Zealand to England and have to ship/rebuild the set.

The show was literally gifted the best of EVERY possible situation and has ended up being middle of the pack AT BEST, considering it had: the largest budget, perhaps the most renowned source material, and a streaming platform that tens of millions are already on + one that gives daily life benefits. Last ratings I saw that the show had fallen to 4th in streaming numbers, which is not good news at all. Especially when you are sinking ~60 million an episode into this.

If they want to turn the ship around they really just need to fire basically their entire writing staff and hire new producers, cause Payne and Mckay are fucking idiots.

Like love or hate the show, the writing is subpar, the dialogue oscillates between bad and cringe, and the choreography suspect at best.

[Levelfive]

I mean you ignoring the massive negative press/reviews/online presence the show has, the fact all outside data (since Amazon has been SILENT on numbers other than the release) show it dropping (see earlier in the thread, think even episode 1 to 2 was a 30% drop). Not to mention you have outdated news since Season 2 was forced to be delayed when they moved filming from New Zealand to England and have to ship/rebuild the set.

The show was literally gifted the best of EVERY possible situation and has ended up being middle of the pack AT BEST, considering it had: the largest budget, perhaps the most renowned source material, and a streaming platform that tens of millions are already on + one that gives daily life benefits. Last ratings I saw that the show had fallen to 4th in streaming numbers, which is not good news at all. Especially when you are sinking ~60 million an episode into this.

If they want to turn the ship around they really just need to fire basically their entire writing staff and hire new producers, cause Payne and Mckay are fucking idiots.

Like love or hate the show, the writing is subpar, the dialogue oscillates between bad and cringe, and the choreography suspect at best.

I literally just linked you evidence that it hasn't been silent on numbers other than release, and if the articles from the 4th and 5th that talk about moving filming back to England ("The first season was shot over 18 months in New Zealand during the height of the pandemic. Production has moved to Bray Studios in the U.K. for the second season. As with season one, there will be eight episodes. No release date is available, but production is in full swing") are outdated, link the updated info. You can hate something and be in the minority, there's nothing wrong with that.

[Raisei]

I dont see any reasons why its bad that there is several storylines to follow already. Its nice. It builds up the show and makes the world feel more involved to whats happening. Everything that happens in every storyline is connected to eachother one way or another and in the end it will be brought together. Just like it was with GoT most of the seasons. Lots going on.

Yet despite the 5 plot threads I feel that very little is going on. Just take the Galadriel plot. She was supposed to go back home, jumped ship, landed in Numenor, met Halbrand, got an army and returned to Middleearth to witness Mount Doom exploding. That is all. It took them what 6 hours alltogether to tell this? It's a lot of padding and a lot of Galadriel making herself look like an ass.
And that is one of the more rich storylines. The Hobbits have been traveling for the last 5 episodes with next to nothing happening, except that they have shown themselves to be horrible people.

Look at house of dragons. Literally one storyline, nothing else. Family drama in the keep, thats it.

Yet I would argue that in that one storyline we have more happening then in the entire five of Rings. It is really difficult to compare the quality of those shows.

House has excellent actors, prefectly casted for their roles, with excellent dialogue, Rings has very weak actors that seem to really strugle projecting emotion (case in point: Galadriel has exactly one facial expression for nearly the entire season) that are very weirdly casted. Can you really look at the Elrond actor and think: Yeah, that one will be Hugo Weaving in a thousand years? Nah no way.
Plus it feels like there is an inherent irony in most scenes and I am not sure the showrunners realize this. Like Galadriel talking about Humility when she has been the least humble person in the entire series or the Proto-Hobbits proclaiming that "no one is left behind" while trying everything possible to leave Nori and her hurt father behind.

Just imagine what the showrunner of House could have done with the money that Rings is blowing up for each episode... geezus...

[bledgor]

I literally just linked you evidence that it hasn't been silent on numbers other than release, and if the articles from the 4th and 5th that talk about moving filming back to England ("The first season was shot over 18 months in New Zealand during the height of the pandemic. Production has moved to Bray Studios in the U.K. for the second season. As with season one, there will be eight episodes. No release date is available, but production is in full swing") are outdated, link the updated info. You can hate something and be in the minority, there's nothing wrong with that.

1. The article you linked admits a 2023 date is unlikely, and most sources have said 2024, which is I guess not slow but certainly not a quick turn around exactly like I said.

2. Once again the article you linked talked about hitting 100 million (actually they admit is getting close, not hit yet) at episode 6 means a hefty fall off, considering they had 25 million the first episode, iirc 30% fallout between 1 and 2 means 17.5 for episode 2, meaning the last 4 averaged ~14.4 million, almost a 50% drop from episode 1. Considering the online presence of the show is largely negative and the fact the show is not having good legs, it does no bode well.

3. You can see a similar trajectory in RoP that WoT had, where the show was talked up, but a week or two after the finally it had 0 staying power, and wasn't being mentioned at all. This isn't some small time sci-fi channel show, this a show based on Tolkien on a platform hundreds of millions already have with a episode budget of ~60 million. This show should be crushing the competition, but it isn't.

You can like something and be in the minority. You can also like something and realize it has massive flaws, don't defend trash and try to make it better. The show needs a lot of work to be great.

Want examples, the whole arc of Galadriel is pretty garbage writing with horrible dialogue (THERE IS A TEMPEST IN ME). Karen is right about evil, gets send away because she is apparently causing the elves to fade (FUCKING LOL), decides AT THE GATE of Valinor to jump ship thousands of leagues from land to not be found once, but twice at sea before being conveniently taken to the one place that has the power to help her (who apparently have submarine ships to fit hundreds of men, horses, and materials for an army they bring). Oh and it takes 7 episodes for a character driven by revenge/love of a family member to mention she had a husband who is gone too? That shit feels like a re shoot because they forgot.

Second example, the Hobbits, I mean Harfoots. No need to elaborate here.

It is so contrived it literally hurts to think about.

[eschatological]

If you actually trust what sycophant media and what Amazon says their numbers are, I've got a bridge to sell you. Streaming platforms are not beholden to actually be truthful about what their viewership numbers are. Amazon has tens of millions of Prime users, and we know that historically they've been struggling to get anywhere near the numbers that shows like GoT pulled at its peak. So if you actually believe what they say, then you really are a fool because there's no way this trash fan fiction is doing the numbers they claim they are.

Not being truthful about their viewership numbers to investors would be a breach of fiduciary duty, and illegal. Stop talking nonsense conspiracy theories.

[Levelfive]

1. The article you linked admits a 2023 date is unlikely, and most sources have said 2024, which is I guess not slow but certainly not a quick turn around exactly like I said.

2. Once again the article you linked talked about hitting 100 million (actually they admit is getting close, not hit yet) at episode 6 means a hefty fall off, considering they had 25 million the first episode, iirc 30% fallout between 1 and 2 means 17.5 for episode 2, meaning the last 4 averaged ~14.4 million, almost a 50% drop from episode 1. Considering the online presence of the show is largely negative the show is not having good legs.

3. You can see a similar trajectory in RoP that WoT had, where the show was talked up, but a week or two after the finally it had 0 staying power, and wasn't being mentioned at all. This isn't some small time sci-fi channel show, this a show based on Tolkien on a platform hundreds of millions already have with a episode budget of ~60 million. This show should be crushing the competition, but it isn't.

You can like something and be in the minority. You can also like something and realize it has massive flaws, don't defend trash and try to make it better. The show needs a lot of work to be great.

No, according to the article, it was 25 million the first two episodes.

Again, right there in the linked article and in my post: "With Amazon Studios intent on fast-tracking production, Rings of Power season 2 could premiere a lot sooner than initially expected. Filming is already underway, though considering the show's huge production scale, it likely won't be ready to air until late next year at the earliest. But make no mistake, a late 2023 release date would still be an impressively quick turnaround for The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power season 2." So the opposite of what you said.

I'll let the fact that you still didn't link anything supporting your claims about numbers and dates speak for itself.

[bledgor]

No, according to the article, it was 25 million the first two episodes.

Again, right there in the linked article and in my post: "With Amazon Studios intent on fast-tracking production, Rings of Power season 2 could premiere a lot sooner than initially expected. Filming is already underway, though considering the show's huge production scale, it likely won't be ready to air until late next year at the earliest. But make no mistake, a late 2023 release date would still be an impressively quick turnaround for The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power season 2." So the opposite of what you said.

I'll let the fact that you still didn't link anything supporting your claims about numbers and dates stand for itself.

No the numbers have said 25 million the first episode, you seriously think it was 12.5 for first two and then it increased to an average of 18.75 an episode? Even the most ardent media supports have started to recognized the glaring issues in the show (namely Galadriel), and you somehow think the show has been growing since the start? I have a house on the moon to sell you in that case.

Are you blind mate? It literally says while 2023 is not impossible, it is very unlikely? That would be a 2024 date then, which again considering they are moving locations means it is highly unlikely things go perfectly to allow a 2023 release date, so you are agreeing I am right.

Your numbers literally support my point, but continue to be a blind fan boy I guess, enjoy the head pats from amazon.

Not to mention you still ignore the fact the show is bad, and only see the numbers. TELL ME WHAT MAKES THE SHOW GOOD, I have told you a few things (of the many, many things) that make it bad.

- - - Updated - - -

Not being truthful about their viewership numbers to investors would be a breach of fiduciary duty, and illegal. Stop talking nonsense conspiracy theories.

There is the murky area of views though. What constitutes views? Watching 2 minutes of it? Seeing parts of it from an embedded player? Having to watch an entire episode? It is undefined so by its nature you can just about make it as true as you want, but it still be completely misleading. See the use of GDP as a show of how good the economy is going.

[Levelfive]

No the numbers have said 25 million the first episode, you seriously think it was 12.5 for first two and then it increased to an average of 18.75 an episode? Even the most ardent media supports have started to recognized the glaring issues in the show (namely Galadriel), and you somehow think the show has been growing since the start? I have a house on the moon to sell you in that case.

Are you blind mate? It literally says while 2023 is not impossible, it is very unlikely? That would be a 2024 date then, which again considering they are moving locations means it is highly unlikely things go perfectly to allow a 2023 release date, so you are agreeing I am right.

Your numbers literally support my point, but continue to be a blind fan boy I guess, enjoy the head pats from amazon.

Not to mention you still ignore the fact the show is bad, and only see the numbers. TELL ME WHAT MAKES THE SHOW GOOD, I have told you a few things (of the many, many things) that make it bad.

"And that’s exactly what happened. Amazon announced on Saturday that the first two episodes of the series, which were released Thursday night, were streamed more than 25 million times in their first 24 hours on the site. Those impressive (although unverified) numbers are said to have broken all previous Amazon records, making it the biggest premiere in the history of the streaming service."

You: "which is I guess not slow but certainly not a quick turn around exactly like I said." Them: "But make no mistake, a late 2023 release date would still be an impressively quick turnaround for The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power season 2" so, the opposite of what you said.

And again, you've got nothing other than a desperate, failing 'go woke, go broke' campaign that's just not panning out.

[bledgor]

"And that’s exactly what happened. Amazon announced on Saturday that the first two episodes of the series, which were released Thursday night, were streamed more than 25 million times in their first 24 hours on the site. Those impressive (although unverified) numbers are said to have broken all previous Amazon records, making it the biggest premiere in the history of the streaming service."

You: "which is I guess not slow but certainly not a quick turn around exactly like I said." Them: "But make no mistake, a late 2023 release date would still be an impressively quick turnaround for The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power season 2" so, the opposite of what you said.

And again, you've got nothing other than a desperate, failing 'go woke, go broke' campaign that's just not panning out.

You just ignore everything I write and say nuh uh.

Also, no, I originally said season 2 would be delayed because of the move, which is factually true. The article said that it would be impressive, but not likely, which suggests 2024 released date. Which either way is not proving me wrong. So again you can't read.

I never said go woke go broke, nice projection. Glad to see the ad hominem coming out.

Noticed you still can't say anything positive about the show either, or what you like, or what is good. You are the only one desperate here, having to spout amazons positive talking points as even the access media has largely turned against the show, due to in part things like the Galadriel problem, the slow/bad pacing, the fast travel/lack of centering, and many various other issues.

It is clear you don't want to talk in good faith, or even talk about the show really, so enjoy talking to your echo chamber. When you actually want to talk about the show, feel free to come back.

Oh and using the numbers you quote, 25 million watched the first two, with 1.235 billion hours watched, means they averaged 10.3 finished the episodes, with 12.5 starting it across the two, would result in a 20% drop from people who started to finished it. Not great, and considering the next 3 episodes were very slow, yeesh.

[eschatological]

There is the murky area of views though. What constitutes views? Watching 2 minutes of it? Seeing parts of it from an embedded player? Having to watch an entire episode? It is undefined so by its nature you can just about make it as true as you want, but it still be completely misleading. See the use of GDP as a show of how good the economy is going.

I believe they published "minutes watched" at some point too. Just divide that by the independent viewers (which is what these numbers are). Also, unlike FB and Twitter and Instagram, I don't believe Amazon Prime has an embedded viewer...anywhere. Certainly not off its own platforms, but maybe on the Amazon frontpage? I know during Thursday Night Football there's a big splash page on the Amazon homepage. Minutes watched rarely matters, "impressions" is what counts for advertisers. This is doubly true for Amazon who doesn't run ads during their program, so none of this speaks to the feasibility of the show. You could watch two minutes of one episode in a 4 week span, and as long as you paid the monthly sub for that month, you're almost the exact same (to Amazon) as someone who watched all 4 episodes multiple times over the course of the month.

FB sells their ads based on numbers based entirely on people scrolling past autoplaying video.

[rhorle]

No the numbers have said 25 million the first episode

Amazon said 25 million global views in the first 24 hours. The first two episodes were released in that 24 hour period. There is nothing breaking down the per episode counts. The article linked was from October 5th so only 6 episodes of Rings of Power were out at the time. Using 100 million that is 16.6 million average viewers per episode. We don't know when that number in the article was given only the date the article was published so it could be only 5 episodes which would put the average at 20 million an episode.

Stop calling people blind fan boy and other insults just because they don't have the same view of the show as you do. There have been popular and successful shows that you don't like in the past and there will be more in the future.

[bledgor]

I believe they published "minutes watched" at some point too. Just divide that by the independent viewers (which is what these numbers are). Also, unlike FB and Twitter and Instagram, I don't believe Amazon Prime has an embedded viewer...anywhere. Certainly not off its own platforms, but maybe on the Amazon frontpage? I know during Thursday Night Football there's a big splash page on the Amazon homepage. Minutes watched rarely matters, "impressions" is what counts for advertisers. This is doubly true for Amazon who doesn't run ads during their program, so none of this speaks to the feasibility of the show. You could watch two minutes of one episode in a 4 week span, and as long as you paid the monthly sub for that month, you're almost the exact same (to Amazon) as someone who watched all 4 episodes multiple times over the course of the month.

FB sells their ads based on numbers based entirely on people scrolling past autoplaying video.

See the issue is you start with "I believe", what we know is largely all guesses.

I would like to agree with you, but like I said, prime already had 100s of millions of users that have the service for other reasons, and for them watching RoP was no additional cost. They didn't pay the monthly sub for the show, they paid it for shipping, or groceries, or whatever. Are there some people that bought prime for just rings of power? Sure, but lets be real that number wasn't a large one. At the end of the day only Amazon knows how much the show brought new customers in. Again like I said, when you have the triumvirate of Tolkien, the largest budget for a show ever, and a platform with an inbuilt user base of hundreds of millions, the show should have been a juggernaut from start to end.

For numbers otherwise we only have the neilsons first week data and what amazon tells us. Considering how little Amazon is talking about their supposed flagship show, and instead how much effort is going into combating criticism/"online trolls" it doesn't feel like a show doing well, it feels like damage control.

The fact that articles from many publications though have started to rag on the issues with the show does not put it in a good light though, especially when it is competing directly with its rival HotD (as Bezo's himself wanted to create his own GoT) that is doing so well it even got its predecessor back into the high ranking Nielson numbers.

[rhorle]

This is doubly true for Amazon who doesn't run ads during their program, so none of this speaks to the feasibility of the show.

Yeah Amazon makes like 3 billion a month so the show is a small blip. Of course they have more expenses then the show but they seem to banking on the "industry impact" for this show. To prove that Amazon Studios is a world class competitor and attract people to the brand. It will be interesting to see how long Prime Video keeps ads off the platform now that Netflix and Disney+ are using ads to help subsidize costs. Amazon does have a Prime Video only subscription option so that complicates any guess work of how many new subscribers or views are needed to "be successful"

[Levelfive]

You just ignore everything I write and say nuh uh.

Also, no, I originally said season 2 would be delayed because of the move, which is factually true. The article said that it would be impressive, but not likely, which suggests 2024 released date. Which either way is not proving me wrong. So again you can't read.

I never said go woke go broke, nice projection. Glad to see the ad hominem coming out.

Noticed you still can't say anything positive about the show either, or what you like, or what is good. You are the only one desperate here, having to spout amazons positive talking points as even the access media has largely turned against the show, due to in part things like the Galadriel problem, the slow/bad pacing, the fast travel/lack of centering, and many various other issues.

It is clear you don't want to talk in good faith, or even talk about the show really, so enjoy talking to your echo chamber. When you actually want to talk about the show, feel free to come back.

LOL How dare you use ad hominem, you dolt <chef's kiss> I mean, hey, I didn't realize 'go woke go broke' would be so hurtful to you, especially given your sig.

In any case, if the "earliest at late 2023" is "impressively quick" and they're talking about it coming out sooner than expected, then yes, you're still wrong, peach. And my post in this current conversation was in response to someone saying a panicked Bezos might have to pull the plug which is, you know, hilarious, for a variety of reasons, but that makes it specifically about numbers, which you jumped into to say a bunch of easily disprovable bs and then when you got called out on it, complained I wasn't talking about something else. So yeah, good faith is as good faith does, brah.

[bledgor]

LOL How dare you use ad hominem, you dolt <chef's kiss> I mean, hey, I didn't realize 'go woke go broke' would be so hurtful to you, especially given your sig.

In any case, if the "earliest at late 2023" is "impressively quick" and they're talking about it coming out sooner than expected, then yes, you're still wrong, peach. And my post in this current conversation was in response to someone saying a panicked Bezos might have to pull the plug which is, you know, hilarious, for a variety of reasons, but that makes it specifically about numbers, which you jumped into to say a bunch of easily disprovable bs and then when you got called out on it, complained I wasn't talking about something else. So yeah, good faith is as good faith does, brah.

LUL, thinking you hurt me, that is funnier than anything in the rings of power so far.

Funny you talk about sigs, looking at yours, can only imagine the type of Karen you are IRL.

No, I am still right, as they Amazon has said they were delayed by moving production from one country to another. If you don't get that, then I don't know how to continue to talk to you.

Cool, you could still have posted anything about the show, how you feel, what is good, what isn't but you don't. Also just because of numbers doesn't mean that Bezos is happy, or that the show is doing good. I doubt they pull the show, but as I said and you ignored (just like 90% of posts) it doesn't mean the show is immune to having its writers/producers replaced (which it needs).

What good faith? Find some happiness in your life brah, it will do you wonders.

oh and one final time, I hate the writing (pacing is bad, the lack of time scale, the fast travel, the bad overarching narrative aka mithril plot line, etc), the dialogue (" I have a tempest in me", "give me the meat, and give it to me raw", etc), the fight choreography (see the battle between the trainees and Galadriel), and more. So what do you think is good/likeable about the show? What reason do you think Bezos should not change or be unhappy with the show (the intent of the person who said he should/could/would cancel it)?

[tikcol]

So she lost Celeborn, how conveniently absurd. Just like the show itself.

[bledgor]

So she lost Celeborn, how conviniently absurd. Like the rest of the show.

How about Isildur getting caught in a collapsing/burning building? OMG will he live (note he shouldn't with the fact how large the burning building that fell on him is)?!?!?!

Then you have Elendil release his horse, we all know in some contrived way he is going to live (betting on he somehow falls through the ground into the tunnels the orcs made) and his horse will find/carry him to safety. Typical bullshit mystery from Jar Jar Abrams and his disciples.

Like they had what 5 buildings that they were all in/around and somehow everyone got separated???? Ugh it was so nonsensical.