The reason most play DPS (it is not because they like DPS or because they hate tanks)

[Dead Moose Fandango]

I play DPS while doing LFR/LFG because being told by rando people that I'm the reason we can't complete a raid or dungeon. Instead of, y'know because they can't interrupt mobs or pull off higher dps to get the mobs down faster.

Really, that's all there is to it. I certainly tank for groups of people I know, though.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

since we are in Retail forum and not in Classic forum:

in a world, where the amount of mobs is capped for dps classes, because if the dps player pulls more than that amount, it would kill the dps player… you are totally right.

sadly, in reality, a dps can take 15 or 20 or 25 mobs (or the same amount as the tank can pull) without dying, or even going under 50% health. in fact a range dps can even pull more than the tank, because the only limiting factor is „how much mobs can i reach at the same time?“. because in retail, since a decade or so, literally nothing can ever kill you, because 98% of all mobs hit like a wet noodle. open world content, or quests, is that piss easy, you have to be a moron player in green gear, to ever die to mass pulling.

in short: in 2022 (and since over a decade before) your argument has zero value. a range dps pulls 30% more mobs as a tank, at the same time. and kills the mobs 3 times faster than the tank.

end of story.

Once you outgear a zone, then sure. But there are pulls I can do on my BM hunter that would kill my ele shammy. And pulls I can do on my tanks that would kill my hunter. None of this applies once the content becomes trivial. But when you are first leveling in zones you don't outgear, it can matter.

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I play DPS while doing LFR/LFG because being told by rando people that I'm the reason we can't complete a raid or dungeon. Instead of, y'know because they can't interrupt mobs or pull off higher dps to get the mobs down faster.

Really, that's all there is to it. I certainly tank for groups of people I know, though.

Always more fun with friends.

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lol

well sadly or not, this is a reality of the game I don't think a lot of people get. The job of a tank is to mitigate damage, sure, but it's mostly to facilitate DPS. A good tank is not someone who uses defensives appropriately; it's someone who uses defensives and groups up mobs to enable the group to do more damage.

DPS in this game is all about proper CD usage and tanks pulling around them. So this partially drives toxicity because a tank who does baby pulls then suddenly grabs 20 mobs when the dps don't have any CDs is 100% responsible for that wipe.

The same basic principle is true of healers: their job is to enable DPS. Sometimes that means keeping DPS alive, but it also means killing explosives, dropping CC, doing damage, or whatever else allows the group to kill mobs the fastest.

Moving green health bars up does not defeat the content, moving the red ones down does. Everything in a group is just a means to that end.

very well said and 100% accurate. experienced players realize that.

also the examples are perfect. can’t tell how often i did some m+ run, with me and 2 other dps and everyone of us did 24-26k sustained. and either it was horrible close or time was running out. why?

because a tank not knows how to combine pulling and cds. and a healer doing 2% dps, no sooth, no slows, nothing. and then, when he should realize, big pull is incoming, be ready for using fat heal cd (i.e. spirit link), to give dps classes room to burst, the ability is on cooldown, because it was used on a 3mobs pull, because tank and dps got inc damage at the same time lol. what most ppls not realizing is:

running a key intime is not mostly dependent on:

- sustained dps
- route
- tank dps
- heal output
- or whatever

it is mostly dependent on tank and heal using their spells and doing their things at the right moment. and know when and what to use. playing around pulls and cds is key.

exactly what above poster describes. heals and tanks ENABLING the dps classes. this is one of the best statement i heard since a long time. and it’s 1000% true.

Yes! To you and the person you quoted. Tanks are the facilitators. Tanks may not be top tier DPS, but good tanks *absolutely* increase group DPS. And make overall runs go smoother.

[Vonazak]

Dps are just the average guy, if you are not in the top3 dps of the raid, you are worthless and can be easily replaced.

As an experienced healer, I can join every single group if I'm decent enough, I can choose which guilds to join, which m+to participate, I had a voice in most guilds I belonged, some times I can even ask the raid leaders to kick worthless dps from the group when I'm in a pug.

Yeah, some players play for the "meters", but being tank or Healer gives you real power in the game, you can decide when a dps dies, you can break groups just by not showing up on raid day.

As a dps, I would rarely get an invite to heroic pugs, as a healer, I'm top priority, all the time, as long as I play in an US server.

[AlmightyGerkin]

One of the big problems with tanks and healers is that they are only viable in a raid or dungeon environment. If you are a casual doing open world gameplay or PvP then you can only play DPS because healers and tanks deal such piss weak damage and take forever to kill anything and have boring damage rotations. In FF14 tanks and healers deal a lot more damage and can be viable to do questing and open world stuff with. The fantasy of a being a sword and shield paladin or a bear druid is appealing, but normies who only do open world stuff can't play that.

Its cause tanks and healers are not meant for damage. Of course they're going take forever to kill something cause they're playing a spec that isn't meant for a lot of damage.

[neescher]

Healer is sooooo boring to play.

You just sit and stare at health bars while using click casting to keep the bars full.

What's the difference in watching bars and trying to keep them full, and watching bars and trying to deplete them?

[Itisamuh]

This is part and parcel with the "dpses are easy" answer in here which is the most popular answer but it's a fallacy as I explained here, and to expand on that: tanks have lower pressure/difficulty than most people think - when the player is exclusively playing tanking especially - also because fewer want to play the role so the rewards it gets are practically higher (e.g. fewer slots available to run 5mans as a tank and hence much easier to rank as a tank).

But generally I'd urge anyone who says "tanking hard" to try to play exclusively tank for a few months (especially if it's the start of the expansion); all those "strategy" things you think are hard are just nothing to those exclusively-tank people because it's the only thing they do; it's like you trying to optimize your DPS to be on the 99th percentile (it's extremely hard for anyone who is not exclusively DPS).

Oh I'm sure you have a point at a higher level of play, or even just in a solid guild where you don't play with random people. It's at the entry or casual level where it becomes a problem and puts people off tanking, where people don't know all the perfect routes, where people don't have every fight mechanic memorized, where people haven't mastered their classes and are still figuring things out. Tanks aren't allowed to be figuring things out mid run, everyone expects them to already know exactly what they're doing and lead the group efficiently, and the ones that aren't there yet often get roasted. When people say damage is easier they're referring to less peer pressure rather than mechanical difficulty.

[chiddie]

very well said and 100% accurate. experienced players realize that.

also the examples are perfect. can’t tell how often i did some m+ run, with me and 2 other dps and everyone of us did 24-26k sustained. and either it was horrible close or time was running out. why?

because a tank not knows how to combine pulling and cds. and a healer doing 2% dps, no sooth, no slows, nothing. and then, when he should realize, big pull is incoming, be ready for using fat heal cd (i.e. spirit link), to give dps classes room to burst, the ability is on cooldown, because it was used on a 3mobs pull, because tank and dps got inc damage at the same time lol. what most ppls not realizing is:

running a key intime is not mostly dependent on:

- sustained dps
- route
- tank dps
- heal output
- or whatever

it is mostly dependent on tank and heal using their spells and doing their things at the right moment. and know when and what to use. playing around pulls and cds is key.

exactly what above poster describes. heals and tanks ENABLING the dps classes. this is one of the best statement i heard since a long time. and it’s 1000% true.

In all this (that is “sadly” true) we should not forget that this is incidentally also a game with which you are supposed to have fun.

If people have to take a PHD in tanking before playing the role without being harassed, it’s quite clear that most of them will skip the role instead.

[arkanon]

What's the difference in watching bars and trying to keep them full, and watching bars and trying to deplete them?

The consequences of failing. If a DPS fails to perform their role to the required standard, there are 2 others (in a 5man) to share the responsibility and it is almost never noticed. When a healer fails, someone dies.

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Yes! To you and the person you quoted. Tanks are the facilitators. Tanks may not be top tier DPS, but good tanks *absolutely* increase group DPS. And make overall runs go smoother.

As a tank since day one, and long before wow, and since wow, I agree. My philosophy has remained the same - my job is NOT to deal damage - my job is to facilitate my damage dealers doing damage to the best of their ability. That comes down to appropriate pulls, managing casters, bunching mobs up, etc etc. It's not rocket science, but, you absolutely notice the difference when running with an experienced and knowledgeable tank. The difference between a skilled and clever tank, and a geared but idiotic tank is night and day, and I would take the skilled tank any day.

The difference is usually pull size and their ability to correctly match the abilities of the rest of the Group. Anyone can just do a huge pull, then blame the DPS and healer when you wipe, but pulling the right mobs, at the right speed, that takes a lot more experience and knowledge.

[Itori]

Id say a good portion has to be the anxiety of a support or tank role too. Like I main a healer in FFXIV because its laid back, but refuse to tank because the group expects you to function a certain way regardless if the content is new or you’re new.

Not everyone is nice or understanding when it comes to those roles. I personally experienced situations that made me cut myself off from tanking or healing in WoW all together. I’m not going to slack in my dps but im not going to try to top the charts either.

[iinverse]

Everyone has its own reason to play dps. Most players play dps because its easier to play casually. You just need to press some buttons and follow lead. Tanks, for example, mostly responsible not just for playing their class, but overall leadership - routes, pulls, overall encounters understanding. Same for healers - they need to know/plan incoming damage and keep everyone alive. Also healer gameplay is pretty specific - mostly clicking on allies plates (in the game about killing dragons, you know).
Its of course for the majority of players. Those who do high keys or race world first raids, can manage roles/classes inside its groups (like 25+ pushers mostly can play two or more roles pretty good and respec/change class/role depending on current meta).

[epigramx]

I've played moonkin to +22

Now try with all specs in the game. If your AOE is bad in a specific spec: you will never reach +22 unless you are massively carried by the best 2 DPSes in the game.
In general this game can not be carried by just one healer if it starts getting harder and harder unless they REALLY want to carry you.

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you never tanked M+ 10 or higher if you think dungeon strategies dont change over the course of expansion...

That's a strawman argument. Try to answer to those you are talking to (not to imaginary arguments nobody brought just because its easy).
There's no difference in that case anyway; if someone is exclusively tank: even a change in strategy is simple; it's the only thing they do.

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I play dps because tanking is way to easy and boring.

The interesting thing is that almost all other answers in here say the inverse. But you're most probably right with the condition: the tank role is played exclusively by that person or at least they give it the attention it deserves.
If you play ONLY tank for example: then tanking can become much easier than being consistently on the 99% percentile of DPS logs because in one case you mainly have to be 'good' and in the latter 'of the best'.

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If true, and I'm not saying it is, it reinforces the argument to do away with meters completely or to make meters so that only the player can see them. If the response to that is that someone would leave that would be fine. A social game that has an enormous amount of PVE content doesn't need players who use their DPS meters as a stand-in for PVP.

It's already fair, because bad players who only care about the meter (even in non-Patchwerk fights): will just be worse players for the group and they will be kicked out of the best guilds.
Also if they are jerks like that: it will manifest in other ways anyway even if the feature is removed so it's not a solution with a clear outcome.

[aceperson]

i play dps because i like doing mechanics and tank mechanics tend to be boring and straight forward. i do like tanking occasionally as it has it's own challenges but dps has more consistent variety in gameplay for me.

[epigramx]

Dps are just the average guy, if you are not in the top3 dps of the raid, you are worthless and can be easily replaced.

As an experienced healer, I can join every single group if I'm decent enough, I can choose which guilds to join, which m+to participate, I had a voice in most guilds I belonged, some times I can even ask the raid leaders to kick worthless dps from the group when I'm in a pug.

Yeah, some players play for the "meters", but being tank or Healer gives you real power in the game, you can decide when a dps dies, you can break groups just by not showing up on raid day.

As a dps, I would rarely get an invite to heroic pugs, as a healer, I'm top priority, all the time, as long as I play in an US server.

Yeah exactly, which is a big part of what makes the "what is easy" question at the very least subjective to answer.
If someone is experienced in tanking or healing: then it's "very easy" to find groups for example.

[tomten]

It's a multiplayer game and people instinctively want to beat others in multiplayer games; they want an objective mean of being able to say to others "see? I beat you"; if that is missing they lose interest very easily.
Tanking and healing heavily lack that; DPSes can be considered bad if they only look at meters but they are the only ones who CAN use meters in some fights ("Patchwerk" ones); tanks almost never have that.

I regularly beat dps as tank in every given content I do. Like, every time I play I outplay dps on the meters. Not sure what you're talking about.

[potis]

In all this (that is “sadly” true) we should not forget that this is incidentally also a game with which you are supposed to have fun.

If people have to take a PHD in tanking before playing the role without being harassed, it’s quite clear that most of them will skip the role instead.

Thats just an excuse, the way the game is designed, and the gearing up and everything, you can do up to +20s without a care in the world.

I am the type of tank that will cause a wipe every other week cause i didnt care enough if the CDs are back and pulled more than i should, did it matter? Not really, obviously this is always with the same people so they know it willl happen, they know i dont give a rats ass, its joke content and i aint gonna tryhard irrelevant shit.

Oh, i never have routes also

But i can totally understand why in the pug world that is important, and especially after 20s.

But if i cared to do higher content, i would be fixing my UI to track party CDs better, instead of only raid defensive cooldowns as its designed.

So no, you just need dungeon knowledge as always, as pre-M+, and knowing your class a bit, and the content that is intended, is doable.

[Gatelyt]

One of the big problems with tanks and healers is that they are only viable in a raid or dungeon environment. If you are a casual doing open world gameplay or PvP then you can only play DPS because healers and tanks deal such piss weak damage and take forever to kill anything and have boring damage rotations. In FF14 tanks and healers deal a lot more damage and can be viable to do questing and open world stuff with. The fantasy of a being a sword and shield paladin or a bear druid is appealing, but normies who only do open world stuff can't play that.

Yeah that is definitely not the case. Sure a dps can kill something faster than me as a tank but most of the time out in the world right now I can easily pull crazy amounts of mobs and it pretty much takes me the same amount of time to kill 10 mobs as it does 1 mob. DPS can't do that so it balances out. And there has been plenty of places in this expansion where you want to pull a lot of mobs at once.

[craigw]

id say most play dps cause they want to. its what they choose to do.

[epigramx]

Oh I'm sure you have a point at a higher level of play, or even just in a solid guild where you don't play with random people. It's at the entry or casual level where it becomes a problem and puts people off tanking, where people don't know all the perfect routes, where people don't have every fight mechanic memorized, where people haven't mastered their classes and are still figuring things out. Tanks aren't allowed to be figuring things out mid run, everyone expects them to already know exactly what they're doing and lead the group efficiently, and the ones that aren't there yet often get roasted. When people say damage is easier they're referring to less peer pressure rather than mechanical difficulty.

You're right in most cases. It's usually the realm of mediocrity that can have healers (or tanks) carrying people who don't even pay attention. But: I will say EVEN if people are extremely casual: they will find tank strategies relatively easy if they start an expansion in that role because a) few know much about them for ~2 months b) it'll be the only thing they do (learning tanking routes) and c) a tank usually needs ~3 runs max to learn a route very well when most DPSes aren't even paying attention which is why so many DPSes think tanks are super-smart or something when it's just not their job while it's the tank's job so they paid more attention.

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In all this (that is “sadly” true) we should not forget that this is incidentally also a game with which you are supposed to have fun.

If people have to take a PHD in tanking before playing the role without being harassed, it’s quite clear that most of them will skip the role instead.

It's a very easy role if you play only that role and from the start of an expansion. Most people usually know nothing about the instances for about ~2 months. Even casual tanks learn the routes very fast compared to DPSes because that's their job.

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As a tank since day one, and long before wow, and since wow, I agree. My philosophy has remained the same - my job is NOT to deal damage - my job is to facilitate my damage dealers doing damage to the best of their ability. That comes down to appropriate pulls, managing casters, bunching mobs up, etc etc. It's not rocket science, but, you absolutely notice the difference when running with an experienced and knowledgeable tank. The difference between a skilled and clever tank, and a geared but idiotic tank is night and day, and I would take the skilled tank any day.

The difference is usually pull size and their ability to correctly match the abilities of the rest of the Group. Anyone can just do a huge pull, then blame the DPS and healer when you wipe, but pulling the right mobs, at the right speed, that takes a lot more experience and knowledge.

Both facilitate the highest outgoing damage, and facilitate the most survivable incoming damage. It's a balance (and it's not only healer-skill-based because sometimes the damage is programmed to be high even if the healers are good).

[Unholyground]

I tank exclusively because tanks are always needed.

[epigramx]

I regularly beat dps as tank in every given content I do. Like, every time I play I outplay dps on the meters. Not sure what you're talking about.

On the highest levels of difficulty: if you beat the DPSes: they are bad DPSes.
That includes AOE by the way. Most DPSes don't know how to do good AOE.