How are you liking mandatory old dungeons being introduced with regular seasons in DF

[Zephre]

I don't like it, it's the start of an expansion and there's 8 new dungeons instead they're cutting out half of them on M+, if they absolutely had to do this shit they could of done it during the second or third tier, I'd rather just enjoy the new dungeons on M+

[Nzx]

as someone who can easily spend up to 10-15 hours a day playing mythic plus

Repeating old dungeons at large can be extremely demotivating factor to continue playing WoW for me. The fact that I've done them to the point of mild PTSD.

Literally whose fault is this?

[Eapoe]

I get what the OP is saying. For example, having to run Legion m+ for an entire xpac for gear, then having them come back for Legion TW’ing in SL, and now to have some come back for DF is a little annoying. Especially if you play a class/spec that barely benefits from the chosen dungeons.

That stated, I also understand why Blizzard is doing it. A chance to break up the repetitiveness of an entire xpac, mixing up BiS loot so you aren’t always grinding the same dungeon, and (my opinion) a way to test a design based off of Final Fantasy’s system where all old content stays relevant. That doesn’t mean I’m looking forward to stepping back into CoS for the 18,000th time. I’m also a little concerned at Blizzard’s track record for balancing things, and fully expect every season to have 1-2 dead keys at the beginning of every cycle due to it.

Hopefully my concerns are unfounded, and glad others will enjoy the new setup.

[FelPlague]

I think it's pretty cool. I'd like it to be 1/4 to 1/2 older dungeons, instead of what it is this season (and also Grimrail is awful), but I think mixing in older dungeons with the current expansion helps keep the new dungeons a little more fresh. Gives you something to look forward to in season 2 as well when we get the other half.

Also I hope they never bring back Tol Dagor specifically. Screw that place.

"1/2 older dungeons" that is what is is for dragonflight... This season it was all mega dungeons and then some sort dungeons we the players voted on, which is why it was mostly old dungeons.

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It's possible that they are trying to capitalize on these honeymoon phases as they saw classic engagement grew large. So as mythic plus junkies might jump right back in each season just to see what's cooking even knowing that there are 4 old dungeons waiting for them.

But I suspect sub count will drop sooner than later because old content is borderline ridiculous.

I don't know what you are trying to say here.

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I would prefer 8 dungeons at lunch, 1 mega dungeon in 10.1 and 1 dungeon in 10.2. This way we get 8/10/11 dungeons per m+ season. Season 4 you can do the whole bring back old dungeons or something with community votes and the fated raids.

Season 1/2/3 should be NEW content and the seasonal affix should provide the variety in strategies used through the first 3 seasons. Unfortunately, Blizz has essentially given up on m+ dungeons design as they prefer to design for the m+ tournaments with 10k viewers rather than the hundreds of thousands of players actually playing the game.

Just look at the new seasonal affix - after all the positive feedback about stuff like Awakened or Relics, we get...something worse than Beguiling.

So you want the exact same problem we have had since legion. 2 years of every new patch having to regrind the exact same dungeons for the exact same gear, cool, good thing they ain't listening to that and are giving us unique experiences each season by swapping out the dungeons and gear.

Also idk what the fuck you are talking about when it comes to them designing dungeons for tournoment and not for players, what are you even talking about?

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So fresh.
Its a tactic so people don't complain about the same 8 dungeons in the m+ rotation for the whole xapc.
What would a studio that respects its customers do, they would make more dungeons throughout the expansion.
What does cheap recycling blizzard do, use old content.
And why?
Because there are idiots like you who praise them.
I could go on but I will get banned again.

Bro, they can't make 8 new dungeons every single patch... Plus why make new dungeons, when some dungeons exist that lots of players literally have never ever done before, and the rest have never experienced in a m+ environment.

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Fresh? Content I have done years ago? I would hate to see tie vegetables if you think that’s fresh

Yes, doing stuff you haven't done in 10 years is far more fresh then doing the same thing for 2 years in a row countless times.

Cause yeah, eating a meal you had 10 weeks ago is far more fresh then eating that new recipe you found on tiktok 2 weeks ago and have been eating every single day since.

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Well.. Lower Kara is awful, Grimrail is poorly build with the zooming and lack of space. Junkyard is a joke but actualy an enjoyable one. Others are kinda meh.
Jade Serpent might be fine. But there is a rotating boss that might be a problem for certain pugs.
Court of Stars i just hate. Minigame at the end will just be auto solved with an addon in any serious group but might break a lot of pug keyes.
- also farming the ring with every single melee, thx blizzard.
HoV is beautiful but might be a slog.
Burial Grounds i like, depends on the tuning tho. The slime boss will be super annoying waste of time if someone slips.

I dont think this is good. They should just pump out more dungeons instead of pulling old ones that were not build with new abilities and m+ scaling in mind. Grimrail is excelent example of this. Abilities were poorly telegraphed on the gound or not at all, the constant zooming and corridors is pure cancer in m+...
Some dungeons might be okay, they might also become a nightmare.

The worst thing tho is blizzards stupid reasoning.
#1 argument when they talked about people showing late during season not knowing tactics and others being toxic towards them
- gg pals, now there will be toxic enviroment from day 1 because people in high pugs will demand people to know tactics already for these old dungeons.
#2 argument farming same gear over and over
- gg again, now i will farm the same gear i farmed couple expansions ago.
# argument doing dungeons over and over again
- gg again, like previous argument about items, people who played those expacs know those dungeons already, you do them while leveling...

It's just so bad from blizzard.. They have more money, developers, technology than ever before, yet they cant come up with more than 4 fully created dungeons .
And by the way, im not talking about 4/4 split in DF S1 for m+. They have done this in SL aswell. Mists of trina was cut from the world, Plaguefall also, HoA and NW too. They are not even fully creating 8 dungeons for the sake of dungeons but they take the whole enviroment from the world. They have more options than evver before, yet they are doing less and less.

"Can't come up with more then 4 newly created dungeons" except they can.. they made 8... 4 willl be in m+ season 1, the other 4 in season 2 with both seasons also having 4 old dungeonsz so every season feels unique in the dungeons, and in the loot.

So you really think they can pump out 8 dungeons a season to keep the dungeons and loot unique every season?

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I don't like it, we pay for a new expansion with new dungeons NOT for them to recycle shit.

Not to mention they have shown a habit in picking the worst ones so far.

What do you mean they pick the worst ones so far? Grimrail and iron docks? Bro I fucking hate to dissapoinnt. But WE chose those.

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If players actually run M+ for the fun of it, give them more to play instead of locking them into a small pool every season. Let the players buy or earn optional one-time keys for any dungeon that can function with M+. Let these dungeons drop loot but it would be important that these optional dungeons wouldn't count for KSM, or Mythic Scores.

If players are running M+ for loot, then they really don't care what dungeons are up. They'll be targeting dungeons for the loot they provide and will likely get tired of anything you give them. If Mechagon was up every season, you would see ppl would farming those rings every season.

They did this literally with legion timewalking and few if anyone touched them. People don't want that.

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Imo the main issue is that there's still just 8 dungeons.
If it had expanded the pool, then fair enough, but now it's more like "Why?".

Personally i'd have opted to just add a rotating pool of 4 to the 8 of the present expansion. (And adjusted ratings/KSM/etc. so that no one is disadvantaged by the additional 4 dungeons)

But in its present form it solves effectively nothing.

Dude, having to do atleast 16, +15s to complete the pool to get your ksm.is enough.
I rather fucking now have it be 24 seperate runs. Meaning 12 runs every week atleast to try and get all of your seperate dungeon rankings up. Shadowlands with most of the expac having 10 was a massive drag.

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But seasonal affixes were already causing this. Prideful required a completely different route based on the percentages than Encrypted, which prioritized where to use the skips. Shrouded I think I like the best of Shadowlands, in that it has minimal route impact.

Iits still the exact same dungeon with the exact same loot, just a slightly different path, if at all a different path.

[shise]

This really bothers me as someone who can easily spend up to 10-15 hours a day playing mythic plus alone. Now in Dragonflight players are being forced to play old dungeons with normal regular mythic plus seasons.

I think it's too forced of idea in my personal opinion. Repeating old dungeons at large (which is what mplus requires from you to do anyway) can be extremely demotivating factor to continue playing WoW for me. The fact that I've done them to the point of mild PTSD. It doesn't look to be any optimistic to be honest. Only new things should be mainstream, and old dungeons should be buried away and left to timewalking instead.

Sorry for being captain obvious.. but there is your problem really :/

[FelPlague]

I don't mind it, it's good way to not having the seasons repetitive. However, maybe not for season 1. Let us do all the new dungeons or a least only have 2 old dungeons.


Court of Stars and Temple is confirmed? Wonder what the last 2 will be.. lots of annoying ones they could throw in.
Something like Violet Hold would be sort of PUG/tank friendly i guess since you dont need to worry about count, the trash is just thrown at you. Not very fun dungeon though.

All of them have been confirmed. Mop it's temple, wod it's shadowmoon burial, legion it's court and halls of valor.

[Loveliest]

All of them have been confirmed. Mop it's temple, wod it's shadowmoon burial, legion it's court and halls of valor.

I think I like the selection. Maybe not Halls, used to get that key so often. Hyrja on high keys was such a pain.

[frn1]

All of them have been confirmed. Mop it's temple, wod it's shadowmoon burial, legion it's court and halls of valor.

aah, now i remember.. i had suppressed shadowmoon burial and halls of valor

[cigawoot]

10-15 hours a day is more time than I spend at work. If it was 10-15 hours a week that would make more sense.

If anything if you play M+ that much, you'd be appreciating the new model. Do you really want to do Ruby Life Pools 70 to 100 hours a week for two years?

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The limited pool is better. It lets the whole community focus on just 8 dungeons, getting better and then eventually mastering the dungeons the by the end of the season. If you just let people play whatever, you'll just have people running Maw of Souls on repeat for another 10 years.

[Accendor]

Hart dislike. We already played those dungeons for years. I'm not against adding SOME of them, but the current 50/50 split is not ok at all. If it was like 3/4 were new, ok, thats fine, but just 50% is simply not sufficient.

[Voidling]

They did this literally with legion timewalking and few if anyone touched them. People don't want that..

I completely agree. The majority of ppl dont play M+ for the sake of the content but because it's the most rewarding content. If raiding didn't have weekly lockouts we'd probably see a lot more raiding as well.

If they want to keep M+ to feel fresh every season then they should actually make the dungeons unique. They need to develop their tools so they can possibly have the mobs, layouts, and enemy mechanics change somewhat each season. If they made the first season of M+ dungeons in DF all elementally infested, we could see jade temple and grim rail full of primordial creatures and even have some of the map layouts and boss mechanics changed to mirror this look. Even if they don't change anything but the appearances, this would feel fresher than delaying half our content for later.

[klaps_05]

So you want the exact same problem we have had since legion. 2 years of every new patch having to regrind the exact same dungeons for the exact same gear, cool, good thing they ain't listening to that and are giving us unique experiences each season by swapping out the dungeons and gear.

Also idk what the fuck you are talking about when it comes to them designing dungeons for tournament and not for players, what are you even talking about?

BFA seasonal affixes were the first take to make it so the dungeons arent boring, which worked for 2 of the seasons. I would also be fine with 8 entirely new dungeons per season, but seasonal affixes and power gained over the expansion change the dungeons significantly (excluding shadowlands where you practically did the same pulls for 2 years).

Since BFA dungeons have been designed with tournament play in mind first, regular players second. this was talked about for almost all of BFA and one of the reasons why some dungeon design choices were horrible at a regular level or highest keys, but perfect for the MDI.

[Aresk]

Iits still the exact same dungeon with the exact same loot, just a slightly different path, if at all a different path.

That's fair. Loot doesn't really make one dungeon feel different from another to me, though, other than I may prioritize a trinket from one and thus have a slight tendency to want to run that single dungeon more. The big issue for me, at the start of the new season, was the frustration with having done hours of a dungeon in the previous season and going back to feeling like I have no clue with what I'm doing when I now have to learn new route strategies to accommodate a new affix. This is something I particularly feel as a tank, who tends to have to do all the pulls and memorize the routes, so it's probably less of a hindrance for DPS/healers (other than knowing where to use invis pots). At least with a new dungeon, everyone's getting the same experience with being new to things, which tends to make people a bit nicer when something goes wrong.

But yeah, @Loveliest's feelings are completely valid; I just had those same feelings at the beginning of any new season, so the changing of the dungeons hasn't really altered that for me (and in some cases were slightly better).

[jeezusisacasual]

It looks like laziness honestly. While i enjoy older dungeons getting a facelift and coming to the modern era i expect them to be Remastered not Rereleased. I expect new encounters and layout for the modern mythic plus experience not just simple cut and paste jobs but actual dev time almost equal to a ground up new dungeon. Sticking with only dungeons back to MoP means they do not have as much work to put into them when they could retool Gundrak for a fantastic experience or a redone Scarlet series of dungeons.

[Sanguinerd]

What do you mean they pick the worst ones so far? Grimrail and iron docks? Bro I fucking hate to dissapoinnt. But WE chose those.

No, I meant court of stars, halls of valor and shadowmoon.

Well aware "we" picked Grimrail, BRO. (even though it was mostly people voting as a joke or out of spite)

To each their own ofc, to me those are much worse.

[Revamp Man]

well after 3 seasons of DoS spam im glad
i really like some of the old dungeons and it is a shame we dont see them
jade temple is going to be amazing with the dispel on the last boss

[Mysterymask]

No, I meant court of stars, halls of valor and shadowmoon.

Well aware "we" picked Grimrail, BRO. (even though it was mostly people voting as a joke or out of spite)

To each their own ofc, to me those are much worse.

I mean if the community had their way it would only be RFC, Maw of Souls, Utgarde Keep, and a variety of short easy ones you could complete in 5 minutes

[Mayia]

It'd be insane to me if i played them the system of M+ was already broken in legion doing the same thing over and over and oh god kill me please.
They should be an opt in system that changes thing up either with an easier than they were before or a completely different layout of enemies just rebalancing them isn't doing enough imo.

These dungeons shouldn't give a similar experience to what they previously did, but Wow devs are overworked and underfunded we'll end up with complete garbage.

[FelPlague]

No, I meant court of stars, halls of valor and shadowmoon.

Well aware "we" picked Grimrail, BRO. (even though it was mostly people voting as a joke or out of spite)

To each their own ofc, to me those are much worse.

Shadowmoon is great, while court of stars is a bit odd I think it is fine, plus the profession bonuses are really cool.
Halls of valor?
Well uhh its fast?
Yeah no I am fine with the other 2, but valor is just... odd.

[Lolites]

It looks like laziness honestly.

how the HELL is it laziness...
in SL we get the 8 new dungeons and thats it, now we get 8 new AND 8+ (at least for s1 and s2) old, even if they just tune them it requires some work... so how is doing MORE laziness?!
and sure, BFA had 10, Legion 9 (+vault which is rework so if you dont count reworks in DF you shouldnt in legion either), wod 8, mop actualy "only" 7+2...
so its not like we are really getting less dungeons, with 7/8/9/10/8/8 seems like 8 new is kinda average...