Is this time ~80% of the quests non-required side-quests?

[Aucald]

Before Legion they didn't even have much of a "main questline" concept if I recall correctly. The garrison may be close but after that it might had unlocked everything equally.
When was the first time they split the quest log to "main questline" and "other" (it can't be that long back)?

Legion is when they added the distinction to the UI in the form of the quest log, but it was kind of an unofficial institution all the way back to Cata, I believe - which kind of started the whole "questing on rails" basis of leveling. In Cata, MoP, and WoD you sort of got led from hub to hub via breadcrumb quests - and while there were side quests you could snag along the way, at times way out of the way, they were basically immaterial and were often skipped and not found until much later at max-level. Before Cata, questing was a lot more distributed and less cohesively organized - you'd often find hubs through adventuring rather than being led to them in the majority of cases. I remember in WotLK there were a lot of times I'd go investigate an oddity I saw in the distance only to chance upon a set of quests concerning it.

[InDecisive]

If your only concern is raw XP and getting to max-level, you could, sure? There's no artificial gating mechanism due to the separation of zones like there is in Shadowlands, it's just one big mass of zones in a contiguous new region. It'd be slow going, I imagine, and again you'd miss out on gearing save through powering through dungeons and sufficient good luck with drops.

So nothing during levelling or at max level is gated behind having completed the campaign quests? You don't need to complete one zone's main questline to start the next, you don't have to finish them all to unlock max level activities, you can do the renown stuff with the various factions at level 70 and they'll just act as if the events of the levelling campaign happened even if you've not done them?

Before Legion they didn't even have much of a "main questline" concept if I recall correctly. The garrison may be close but after that it might had unlocked everything equally.
When was the first time they split the quest log to "main questline" and "other" (it can't be that long back)?

I don't think they formally separated "campaign" quests from the rest until BfA, and I don't think they extended that to levelling quests until SL. However, for practical purposes, it happened a lot earlier. Legion introduced the "pick a zone on a map to start the intro sequence" thing, WoD had every zone start with you being railroaded into an intro sequence where you travel there from your garrison and set up an outpost, MoP introduced the idea of "main questlines" that were used for loremaster achievements and later were shown in the quest log UI, and Cata introduced the idea of a single central questline that would take you all the way from the start to the finish of a zone, rather than letting you wander around doing your own thing. It's happened in stages, even in WotLK I think their design mentality shifted so that they started thinking about zones as having "main plots" like the Wrathgate, Arugal, Thorim, etc, even if you weren't railroaded into them and they weren't labelled differently from the rest.

[epigramx]

Legion is when they added the distinction to the UI in the form of the quest log, but it was kind of an unofficial institution all the way back to Cata, I believe - which kind of started the whole "questing on rails" basis of leveling. In Cata, MoP, and WoD you sort of got led from hub to hub via breadcrumb quests - and while there were side quests you could snag along the way, at times way out of the way, they were basically immaterial and were often skipped and not found until much later at max-level. Before Cata, questing was a lot more distributed and less cohesively organized - you'd often find hubs through adventuring rather than being led to them in the majority of cases. I remember in WotLK there were a lot of times I'd go investigate an oddity I saw in the distance only to chance upon a set of quests concerning it.

The vanilla way was probably more because of devs' lack of experience and time rather than a thoughtful design.
But it worked better in specific cases, because surprises once in a while are better than only treadmill.

[Aucald]

So nothing during levelling or at max level is gated behind having completed the campaign quests? You don't need to complete one zone's main questline to start the next, you don't have to finish them all to unlock max level activities, you can do the renown stuff with the various factions at level 70 and they'll just act as if the events of the levelling campaign happened even if you've not done them?

Hmmm, I'm not 100% sure there; I'd probably need to visit the Isles on a fresh character to see what is or isn't available in that regard. There's definitely a campaign that moves you laong from zone to zone, and I don't know if that campaign is accessible in the manner you're referring to above. I don't know if you could "skip" to Ohn'ahra without finishing the Waking Shores campaign first, and so on.

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The vanilla way was probably more because of devs' lack of experience and time rather than a thoughtful design.
But it worked better in specific cases, because surprises once in a while are better than only treadmill.

Dragonflight does a generally decent job of mixing both methods, really. The campaign itself is on a rail moving you from point A to point B in a logical fashion that won't drop novice players, but the zones themselves are full of side-quests even in out-of-the-way locales - one notable instance I saw was an NPC stranded between hubs in the Azure Span, and I only chanced on them while I was running around killing mobs to complete another quest I got in the nearby hub. Rares and Vignette events round out the more dynamic offerings, many of which can be both rewarding and lucrative XP-wise.

The Renown system also has an interesting side-effect of occasionally bringing quests to you, which seems like a bit of a newer thing. I was visited by about half a dozen NPCs who'd appear near me when I hit certain Renown tiers, offering quests connected with that tier and the faction they represent. I know that's happened before in WoW, but never quite with the same prevalence, I felt.

[epigramx]

Dragonflight does a generally decent job of mixing both methods, really. The campaign itself is on a rail moving you from point A to point B in a logical fashion that won't drop novice players, but the zones themselves are full of side-quests even in out-of-the-way locales - one notable instance I saw was an NPC stranded between hubs in the Azure Span, and I only chanced on them while I was running around killing mobs to complete another quest I got in the nearby hub. Rares and Vignette events round out the more dynamic offerings, many of which can be both rewarding and lucrative XP-wise.

Sure, and it has been similar in most expansions to some extend, though I don't think they ever did again Vanilla's "almost an entire ZONE may not be discovered" (it may not had been exactly designed like that because certain minor quests may had sent people there but they were easily missed occasionally).

[Aucald]

Sure, and it has been similar in most expansions to some extend, though I don't think they ever did again Vanilla's "almost an entire ZONE may not be discovered" (it may not had been exactly designed like that because certain minor quests may had sent people there but they were easily missed occasionally).

Vanilla was a bit of a creature unto itself in that regard, and as you said above, it was likely a product of the developers not really having a concrete notion of quest flow at that time. Of course, Vanilla also had zones that were entirely NYI at release, as well, like Silithus and Deadwind Pass. I still fondly remember the empty wasteland of Silithus today - I liked to go there back in the day and just explore to my heart's content, there was something oddly soothing about its silent desolation and almost complete lack of inhabitance that I found appealing.

[Dhomeli]

I do feel like the Dragonflight main story while leveling is way more streamlined compared to Shadowlands (Shadowlands leveling zones had 7-8 chapters, Dragonflight zones only have 3-5 chapters). But to me this is a big improvement, not to mention no annoying intro zone (ie: The Maw), you do a few quick quests in Stormwind/Orgrimmar, then jump right into the new zones.

[InDecisive]

I do feel like the Dragonflight main story while leveling is way more streamlined compared to Shadowlands (Shadowlands leveling zones had 7-8 chapters, Dragonflight zones only have 3-5 chapters).

Does that mean there are a lot fewer quests on the way to 70, or just that a smaller proportion of them are part of the main campaign?

[epigramx]

Vanilla was a bit of a creature unto itself in that regard, and as you said above, it was likely a product of the developers not really having a concrete notion of quest flow at that time. Of course, Vanilla also had zones that were entirely NYI at release, as well, like Silithus and Deadwind Pass. I still fondly remember the empty wasteland of Silithus today - I liked to go there back in the day and just explore to my heart's content, there was something oddly soothing about its silent desolation and almost complete lack of inhabitance that I found appealing.

It felt like a real world, because a real world doesn't always have perils and interesting trivia in every zone. Designers often try to make everything too "game rich" and don't realize a big part of the appeal of WoW was people having the illusion they are in an alternate world.

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I do feel like the Dragonflight main story while leveling is way more streamlined compared to Shadowlands (Shadowlands leveling zones had 7-8 chapters, Dragonflight zones only have 3-5 chapters). But to me this is a big improvement, not to mention no annoying intro zone (ie: The Maw), you do a few quick quests in Stormwind/Orgrimmar, then jump right into the new zones.

It's probably an alternative way to level, and an answer to those that basically want leveling deleted.
"You can level extremely fast and without much questing if you do this and that 'main quests' only".

[Lochton]

The first zone to shadowlands was filled with side quests? Weren't we on a treadmill until Oribos?

You were guided for the main quests (the weird pointy box thing) you could just do that in the various zones after leaving the Maw, and you would be leaving behind maybe 10 or more side quests that you didn't have to do. Your "treadmill" was you being directed (the first time) through the story (a little like how FFXIV does it) and it is up to you to take side quests or not.

[sensei-]

You have to do the full campaign. Up to you if you want to spend time at 70 doign the campaign quests for a long time, or just level up with the campaign quest. If you keep doing the side quests you'll hit level 64-65 even just at the first zone. Side quests are pretty bullshit also. Our godslaying hero is back to collecting flowers, bees, watering plants, killing boars, stuff like that.

[epigramx]

You have to do the full campaign. Up to you if you want to spend time at 70 doign the campaign quests for a long time, or just level up with the campaign quest. If you keep doing the side quests you'll hit level 64-65 even just at the first zone. Side quests are pretty bullshit also. Our godslaying hero is back to collecting flowers, bees, watering plants, killing boars, stuff like that.

I get the impression they scale it to become slower if you just stay on the first zone because the quests become "green level" etc so if you leave quests behind there's no much incentive to do them if XP is priority.

And yeah: I also find questing extremely boring in terms of storytelling. 80% of it is extremely minor storylines because even the main storyline has extremely forgettable stuff in it (e.g. "collect some potions").

[lordjust]

So nothing during levelling or at max level is gated behind having completed the campaign quests? You don't need to complete one zone's main questline to start the next, you don't have to finish them all to unlock max level activities, you can do the renown stuff with the various factions at level 70 and they'll just act as if the events of the levelling campaign happened even if you've not done them?

...

Just like in Shadowlands the openworld activities are gated behind finishing the campaign. Emissary quests (don't know if there's a repeatavle one since the quest is bugged for the last 3 builds), world quests and quest chains for the four different factions (like a mini covenant campaign).

If you do only the campaign quests you end up finishing the campaign at level 68 with all quests from the first two zones being grey and not giving XP so you have to do quests in azure span (green with reduced XP) or in Thaldrazus which has a lot of verticallity and without all the dragonriding upgrades it'll be slow.

Current route to get to max level and have the campaign done is to do almost all side quests in the waking shore and onahan plains (first two zones) and then only focus on the campaign. That way you hit lvl70 right at the end of the campaign with like 2-3 quests of the campaign remaining. If you do all side quests you'll hit lvl 70 in azure span with half the zone done.

If you hit lvl70 before finishing the campaign you can start doing normal and heroic dungeons which isn't too bad since (at least right now) world quests rewards cap out at the same ilvl as heroic gear. Major downside are the locked extra faction activities to gain rep/renown faster because some recipes are locked behind renown like some gem cuts for jewelcrafter or bigger bags for tailor.

Also, I haven't seen anything like threads of fate so far in beta, so it seems like you have to do the full campaign again on alts. Dragonriding upgrades and renown unlocks are account wide but to buy stuff from the faction vendors you need dragonisle supplies and extra items you get from the extra activities. So powerleveling in dungeons or grinding mobs to get to lvl70 isn't enough if you want to level an alt to buy and create bigger bags.

Less mandatory stuff to do if you want to play an alt for dungeons or raids but more to do if you just want to use alts for professions.

[Lora]

you'll typically hit 70 in azure span which is entirely okay. a lot sooner probably if you do all the side quests.

[Ealyssa]

I don't think so. I don't remember the first zone of Shadowlands being anything other than main questing for example.

Like all your takes on wow, it’s wrong…

[Revamp Man]

Bastion was full of side quests

dont take the bait

[epigramx]

I completed today the main questline after I had only done the first zone's side quests (I skipped practically 100% of side quests after that),
and I get the impression I've never seen such a short main questline ever.
It literally felt as long as say Korthia or around that (maybe shorter!).

[Jaggler]

Like all your takes on wow, it’s wrong…

Depends on what he defines as the "first zone"
If he's talking about the Maw intro, he's right.
If he's talking about bastion he's wrong.

[epigramx]

Depends on what he defines as the "first zone"
If he's talking about the Maw intro, he's right.
If he's talking about bastion he's wrong.

I thought of the maw, but I also think this new expansion just has a very short main questline too.
Though that's not exactly the same discussion because the side quests might not be more.

[Jaggler]

I thought of the maw, but I also think this new expansion just has a very short main questline too.
Though that's not exactly the same discussion because the side quests might not be more.

Well, DF seems a lot more open in general, from the talent trees to the the world in general. So it wouldn't surprise me.