Dragonflight Beta SPOILERS! Titan Lore Objects

[SovietBabeyyy]

Every 2-4 years you get few lines, now we reached a point where the first ones where allways there or known, but they hide it all because a mortal can accept titans as creators but another creator he could not understand

Waiting for next shocking revelations in 2024, this time in Ulditukum!

Than 2026 uldabastardos

Later you discover dead titans held prisoner by void lords on their planet

Later light turns out beeing grey

Later again old gods came back in some way

Than first ones turned out to be invented by the void to downgrade the titans

Honestly wow story died years ago i dont care about anything related to it anymore.

All had great plans, for a future

After that future another future that was allways ment to be

Plot twist:

No of those futures could exist if „mortals“ didn’t save the world/cosmos 15x times

Than you realize that those greater forces plotted their futures while in the meantime jailor could unmake reality, sargeras erase all existence, and so on

Of course they had forseen that something like that could happen, they had luck we stopped it so their super future plans are still possible.

Or they allways knew.

[Zephre]

Christ, Danuser really wants to ruin the titans doesn't he? Didn't he dismiss the chronicles as " not reliable " as it was written from the perspective of the titans? I really wish he'd keep the first ones out of the Titan esque stuff, Shadowlands was a disaster and not all the lore should be beyond redemption.

The Afrasiabi thing has always been a deflection and a cope.

You are correct, I see people trying to defend Danuser and his team by using that statement, last I checked Shadowlands was 100% on Danuser and his teams head, Afrasiabi might be an asshat but this wasn't a clusterfuck he's responsible for.

[Skytotem]

This suggests some technology we consider "Titan technology" actually originated from the Aqir, or for all we know, other races that may have lived in the Black Empire & were exterminated by Titans, in what is unambiguously described as an attempted genocide.

That's a tremendous stretch.

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Dude, these edicts are an omission to rewriting history: Is rewriting history not a 'lie' to you? You don't rewrite history that portrays you positively. The only reason we don't consider the Titans wiping out the Black Empire as Genocide is because they merely backed the Troll Empires into conflict with them until they were destroyed...but actually none of that is true. Because we've been lied to.

Yes, assuming the truth is pretty bad for the Titans is an assumption, but it is a very safe assumption.

... What are you even talking about? The Titans didn't have anything to do with the troll empires going to war with the Aqir.

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I don't think that "we've fought Old God minions who did bad things" is particularly compelling. You've been fighting alongside Warlocks and Shadow Priests inflicting Agony, Horror, and Pain for all that time. They're fighting against you, they're going to do unpleasant things to make you die. The Champion of Azeroth has done most of those things too.

Also, the Black Empire need not be truly good as of these retcons, it merely needs to have some redeeming features which were covered up. That need not be inconsistent with what we've seen, since we've only really seen them in a state of war. Rome would have looked like a monstrous entity to its victims, and in many ways it was, but it also created great works of literature, art, and science.

Literally all old gods work for the void lords who intended to use them to consume the world soul (I hate that retcon but it's what we have to work with)

That's -bad- there's no way to apply nuance where Aqir A and Aqir B have a great sense of humor or a novel sense of honor to make any of them not evil.

[SovietBabeyyy]

You can allways bloat more details into past events, to make sense of new inventions, you reach than a point nothing makes sense. Make and create new forces gods old kings and darkness lords or light lords

Ulduvoidlordus:

Xalatath allowed the Titans to order Azeroth

Uldulightus:

The Light rebbeled against the titan getting credit from mortals, and that’s it.

Ulduchatoikus:

Sargeras was controlled by a Disorder God, who is actually a glowing orb wich communicated with sargeras through telepathy.

Grave of the First Ones:

They all perished long ago! The mystery force opposing them masterminded mortals as true gods

End of mystery Force:

Mortals are finally free

Origin of Mortals-beginnings:

We discover the true nature of our existence

The dream state:

It was just a dream, a junkie titan had

Waking up:

As it turns out the Light infused the Titan with Light making him dreaming about it

Titans Future plan they masterminded before:

As title says titans needed a junkie titan to take the light to draw inspirations , so they actually used the light

The End:

People stopped playing, all went into nothingness without ever a conclusion, etablished facts or answers

[Skytotem]

Christ, Danuser really has a massive hard on for trying to destroy the titans eh? How about he just leaves them the buggery hell alone so at least one part of this lore won't be beyond redemption

I don't even mind "The titans weren't perfect" or "Some people don't like the titans and alternatives to them exist" like having benevolent or benign void entities or whatever

But the way they're carrying out these angles is clumsy.

They haven't provided any examples of the Old Gods and Aqir not being evil.

They haven't clarified the view the Incarnates have of the Elemental Lords or Old Gods.

They haven't actually had clarification on messed up things the Titans have done.

(Was it to keep them obedient? That doesn't make sense because Odyn's whole deal was that he wanted Dragons subservient which is why his vrykul ride storm dragons, he'd have no issue if they were already brainwashed to obey Keepers. So what then?)

[Zelk]

Titans being not good has been a thing since at least Ulduar, I don't really get what you're all mad at.

[Skytotem]

Titans being not good has been a thing since at least Ulduar, I don't really get what you're all mad at.

Again, the issue isn't that the titans aren't good. That's refreshing.

It's that the WAY in which the titans have flaws isn't really making sense here without some significant retcons.

The Black Empire was literally controlled by Old Gods who enslaved elementals and waged constant war each trying to brainwash the world soul (still hate the world soul but we're stuck with it) and everything suggests it WAS a constant chaotic miserable place, at least from any mortal perspective.

[SovietBabeyyy]

Do you think a unseen super power staged the writings just to make us think titans wherent good?

And behind this superpower a glowing orb of creation was actually in charge?

And it turns than out the orb was a first ones tear? And actually the before ones make the first ones cry to make the orb into existence?

In 2 expansions all what is now said, isn’t a fact anymore.

[loras]

The complete lack of subtlety in the writing makes me they either wrote it for an illiterate audience, or they got fed up of fans assumptions and theories.

This community really is getting the writers she deserves.

This, wouldn't be surprised that being confronted with their own lacking storytelling qualities also played a part.

[Zelk]

Again, the issue isn't that the titans aren't good. That's refreshing.

It's that the WAY in which the titans have flaws isn't really making sense here without some significant retcons.

The Black Empire was literally controlled by Old Gods who enslaved elementals and waged constant war each trying to brainwash the world soul (still hate the world soul but we're stuck with it) and everything suggests it WAS a constant chaotic miserable place, at least from any mortal perspective.

Nothing here proves the Old Gods or the Black Empire are good. It seems more like the Titans are claiming certain Old God "works of wonder" are actually Titan creations. This could be anything from monuments to the curse of flesh. Maybe the Old Gods defeated something sinister before the titans showed up. This doesn't seem worth getting upset over without more info. We already know they played a big role in the creation of many of Azeorth's races.

[SovietBabeyyy]

Maybe the Old Gods defeated something sinister before the titans showed up. This doesn't seem worth getting upset over without more info.

Here we are, another sinister force no one heared before untill wow expansion 2026,

As it turned out an even more sinister force, the azeroth nightmares existed.

The old gods put order on azeroth and the titans destroyed all

[Skytotem]

Nothing here proves the Old Gods or the Black Empire are good. It seems more like the Titans are claiming certain Old God "works of wonder" are actually Titan creations. This could be anything from monuments to the curse of flesh. Maybe the Old Gods defeated something sinister before the titans showed up. This doesn't seem worth getting upset over without more info. We already know they played a big role in the creation of many of Azeorth's races.

After Garrosh, Teldrassil, Sylvanas and the mess of SL, Blizz does not ahve the goodwill needed for "Wait and See"

Especially not with how hollow the motivations of the Djardin and Incarnates/Primalists are.

[Zelk]

Here we are, another sinister force no one heared before untill wow expansion 2026,

As it turned out an even more sinister force, the azeroth nightmares existed.

The old gods put order on azeroth and the titans destroyed all

your inane ramblings are about as smart as blizz's writing if that's what you're going for

[Skytotem]

-Uldaman-
Sentinel Talondras: Loyal servant to Tyr and withheld truths from Aracahedes and Ironaya. Holds Disc of Norgannon

Withheld what truths?

[SovietBabeyyy]

your inane ramblings are about as smart as blizz's writing if that's what you're going for

When they pay me i will invent for them

Older Gods
Light Lords
Darker than Black
Cosmic Lichkings
Untold truths
Sex between Light and Void Lords
Before Ones
First ones before all
7,8,9 Force
Parallel Universe
Multiversum
Cluster of Multiversums
Before what was before

I can produce story at the same level and create content for next 50 years

[SovietBabeyyy]

I suppose withheld information rather than truths comes out better. Just That Loken Betrayed Tyr. Talondras waited until they were at Uldaman to reveal this information. Just gives light to their unquestionable loyalty I guess.

Witheld informations
Untold truths
Loyality

Wich netflix series?

[Skytotem]

I suppose withheld information rather than truths comes out better. Just That Loken Betrayed Tyr. Talondras waited until they were at Uldaman to reveal this information. Just gives light to their unquestionable loyalty I guess.

I... don't understand, Talondras was literally a messenger, her job was to go TO ULDAMAN to tell Archaedeas and Ironaya his message, she couldn't have given it any earlier than that.

[Ersula]

... What are you even talking about? The Titans didn't have anything to do with the troll empires going to war with the Aqir.

Except in the way that we have confirmation that the war of the Aqir was complete fiction & the Titans wrote it that way.

[Darknessvamp]

So considering the Zandalari have been around long enough to have recorded history of how Evil the Old Gods and their Black Empire was then why would Odyn (Edit: sorry other Titan mix up) even have to pretend there's evidence to the contrary. It also feels like a lore flub that all the Titan Keepers are fully aware that the First Ones were a thing when even the Brokers which were introduced last expansion were struggling with them as a concept and while the Eternal Ones were privy to concrete info. Also the lack of irony with the Keepers knowing that they are stone/iron robots that were build by planet robots (? if that lore is even true anymore) that automate making smaller stone/metal robots while being fully aware of that whole process feels... stupid.

[Aucald]

My issue is more that they haven't really explained how the 'brainwashing' affects the dragons, or what the Incarnates motivations are beyond being anti-titan.

There's no meat on these bones.

I don't think it was literal brainwashing, but more the evolution of the dragons into the modern-day versions we see - intelligent, added Arcane capabilities, melded with obvious Titanic influences (Time, Arcane, Nature, Life, Earth). The Incarnates see this as a perversion of what the proto-dragons were meant to be absent from Titan influence, they see themselves as "true" dragons, albeit infused with elemental energies that also aren't baseline for what we've seen of ancient proto-drakes. So it's more a war of ideologies - whether or not being uplifted by the Titans was the right way to evolve, or whether the evolutionary path taken by the Incarnates was the right way.