Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Iphie]

But But according to some people, if you assist (even by "force) you are a traitor.

If we take a look at History, see what happened in France after the occupation. We had mobs lynching people left and right, shaving women who were suspected of having sex with German soldiers for instance, etc... Not a really glorious sight.

It is a very complicated situation. Obviously, leaders should be put on trial for treason, but the common civil servant ? Not so sure about that, really depend of the context.

Same in the Netherlands tbh. There's even a children's book where one man is suspected of being a collaborator and after the liberation he is subjected to humiliation, violence and so on, only for his tormentors to discover he was hiding Jews in his attic during the entire war. It is rarely black and white.

[jonnysensible]

russia wants to be a superpower but its just an iranian proxy

[Gabriel]

Instead of death penalty we could call it an expedited life sentence.

Just throwing this out there.

[Iphie]

Instead of death penalty we could call it an expedited life sentence.

Just throwing this out there.

For legal reasons I wish everybody a healthy life, I am however not obligated to specify the length of that life. But seriously, you know that won't work legalese only gets you so far.

[Combatbutler]

Do you think that angry mob getting those people would care about any of that?

Who cares what an angry mob thinks? Mob mentality is fucking cancer, there needs to be consequences, removing their citizenship or throwing them in prison are appropriate consequences, allowing mob rule is just downright disgusting.

- - - Updated - - -

Instead of death penalty we could call it an expedited life sentence.

Just throwing this out there.

Man you are one special piece of work you know, drive them off, or let the legal system handle it and be done with it.

Pretty much committing mass murder/genocide is sure to be a good thing, heck lets fire up auschwitz and use russian gas to get it done, for the most poetic justice right? I mean they are just subhuman in your eyes anyway. /s

[Gabriel]

Who cares what an angry mob thinks? Mob mentality is fucking cancer, there needs to be consequences, removing their citizenship or throwing them in prison are appropriate consequences, allowing mob rule is just downright disgusting.

- - - Updated - - -



Man you are one special piece of work you know, drive them off, or let the legal system handle it and be done with it.

Pretty much committing mass murder/genocide is sure to be a good thing, heck lets fire up auschwitz and use russian gas to get it done, for the most poetic justice right? I mean they are just subhuman in your eyes anyway. /s

How do you suggest the people ever return back to normal life if their neighbours that participated in raping and butchering your family are allowed to stay?

And before some dumbass chimes in, I'm not saying that you should exterminate russians.

[Combatbutler]

How do you suggest the people ever return back to normal life if their neighbours that participated in raping and butchering your family are allowed to stay?

I never said they would always be allowed to stay and even then, it is pretty much the same situation after every civil war. What you advocate is genocide, plain and simple, if people had followed your route the US should have exterminated the population of the southern States after they won.

Normality will not return for at least one generation

[Santti]

How do you suggest the people ever return back to normal life if their neighbours that participated in raping and butchering your family are allowed to stay?

And before some dumbass chimes in, I'm not saying that you should exterminate russians.

It's a pickle, no doubt about it. The collaborators are quite numerous, so just jailing them is going to be a challenge. Executing them is a bit yikes, and Russia may or may not be all that keen on taking them either. And should Ukraine emerge victorious with all of the stolen lands reclaimed, angry mobs looking for the failed collaborators are definitely going to be a thing.

- - - Updated - - -

I never said they would always be allowed to stay and even then, it is pretty much the same situation after every civil war. What you advocate is genocide, plain and simple, if people had followed your route the US should have exterminated the population of the southern States after they won.

Normality will not return for at least one generation

I have a feeling the aftermath of the Civil War would have been quite different, should the southern states have been working with a foreign military for the purposes of naked conquest. Definitely not purge the whole lot of them different, but very different for sure.

[Combatbutler]

I have a feeling the aftermath of the Civil War would be quite different, should the southern states have been working with a foreign military for the purposes of naked conquest. Definitely not purge the whole lot of them different, but very different for sure.

That is the thing though, gabriel advocates a purge of hundreds of thousands of people, for their political allegiance. No nation should do anything of the sort, sure you need consequences, but those can't reach the level of extermination, or you trigger a generational cycle of hatred without a doubt.

These situations are always a fucking mess and often times they don't work out. But mass murder is a sure way to fuck up the situation for good.

[Gabriel]

I never said they would always be allowed to stay and even then, it is pretty much the same situation after every civil war. What you advocate is genocide, plain and simple, if people had followed your route the US should have exterminated the population of the southern States after they won.

Normality will not return for at least one generation

Yes the US should have executed every single officer from the southern army after the war, instead of allowing the problem to metastasize like it did.

[Iphie]

That is the thing though, gabriel advocates a purge of hundreds of thousands of people, for their political allegiance. No nation should do anything of the sort, sure you need consequences, but those can't reach the level of extermination, or you trigger a generational cycle of hatred without a doubt.

These situations are always a fucking mess and often times they don't work out. But mass murder is a sure way to fuck up the situation for good.

Eh, long term thinking is currently not on the mind of a lot of people, especially those who suffered russian aggression in the past. Such as Finland and the Baltics.

[Combatbutler]

Yes the US should have executed every single officer from the southern army after the war, instead of allowing the problem to metastasize like it did.

Their families and friends surely would have loved that, who also supported this war. The officers are not the root cause of the whole problem, but the very people living there. Your solution would have just pissed them off more.

Eh, long term thinking is currently not on the mind of a lot of people, especially those who suffered russian aggression in the past. Such as Finland and the Baltics.

And that makes it fine? There need to be consequences, but fucking knee jerk reactions help absolutely nobody.

[Ettan]

Man you are one special piece of work you know, drive them off, or let the legal system handle it and be done with it.

Legal systems are usually suspended/ temporarily changed in situations like this.

Post ww2 norway;
Higher ups/ torturers: faced death by firing squad (for everyone that didn't suicide; 30 countrymen in total + 12 german officers). * note we did not have the death penalty before or after ww2.
Below that "willing" police / informants: long prison sentences as convicts (heavy duty slave labour more or less).
Supporters/ "normal" party members (NS)/ profiteers: regular prison sentences, stripped of their positions and heavy fines.

Fraternizers; It was not illegal on paper but effectively they lost their rights as people, post war they where put in camps (for their own protection, was the reasoning for that). The ones who went so far as to marry Germans, lost their citizenship; many got german citizenship and where shipped off to germany. The peoples justice went abit further; generally shaved them bald, kicked out on street from their homes/ communities, shunned like the plauge.
Then in later years these women and their unfortunate children where the lowest of the low for many decades and faced alot of hardship.

In total 92k ish where branded traitors and convicted in some fashion (pretty thorough then, the population was just 3m at the time).

Tldr is you should expect this sort of thing anywhere, after being oppressed the people will be very vengeful and seek retribution. And they will have it,
"normal" laws/justice will not serve you well at all in that situation.

[Specialka]

Yes the US should have executed every single officer from the southern army after the war, instead of allowing the problem to metastasize like it did.

So should we have done with all the "malgre nous" (which came mostly from Alsace-Lorraine) in France after the WW2 ? What should we have done with all the police officers and Gendarmes that participated in the Val d'hiv roundup ?

[Combatbutler]

Tldr is you should expect this sort of thing anywhere, after being oppressed the people will be very vengeful and seek retribution. And they will have it,
"normal" laws/justice will not serve you well at all in that situation.

And this makes it right? Mob mentality is the way to go? It just makes these people the same kind of trash as the ones, who actually betrayed them. Especially if such actions cross the generational line, going after the children of these people.

[Santti]

And this makes it right? Mob mentality is the way to go? It just makes these people the same kind of trash as the ones, who actually betrayed them. Especially if such actions cross the generational line, going after the children of these people.

No one is saying it makes it "right". It's just the reality of the situation. You go tell them to chill the fuck out, after their homes, friends and families have been tortured, raped, kidnapped or destroyed. I ain't going to tell them that. No sir.

[Combatbutler]

No one is saying it makes it "right". It's just the reality of the situation. You go tell them to chill the fuck out, after their homes, friends and families have been tortured, raped or destroyed. I ain't going to tell them that. No sir.

I expect their state to do that, by dishing out appropriate punishments and stepping in, to avoid mob lynching. If Ukraine does not want to deal with them long term, ship them off to Russia, much like the 12 millions germans after WW2. But do not fucking murder these people.

Human lives are cheap enough as it is.

[Specialka]

No one is saying it makes it "right". It's just the reality of the situation. You go tell them to chill the fuck out, after their homes, friends and families have been tortured, raped, kidnapped or destroyed. I ain't going to tell them that. No sir.

It is not your role to do that. It is their government.

[Azadina]

And that makes it fine? There need to be consequences, but fucking knee jerk reactions help absolutely nobody.

Where exactly has the consequences been for RuZZia? I haven't really seen them.

[Combatbutler]

Where exactly has the consequences been for RuZZia? I haven't really seen them.

I am talking about ordinary people, not a god damn nation, but still there are economical and personal consequences, thousands of soldiers died absolutely needlessly and the economy will tank, reducing the living standard of people all throughout Russdia at some point.

People running around calling for essential mass murder, need to be kept in check and far away from any kind of decision making. To avoid more humanitarian disasters.