1. #7041
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    No, it doesn't. He refused to work with the cut version
    No. Miramax wasn't funding the movie and he was authorized to shop it around under the condition Mirmax gets reimbursed. It was that cut version he was trying to get another studio to pick up. New Line after hearing his pitch asked him to restore his script and even make it grander. That isn't a lie as my earlier article indicated. The amusing part is you are the one trying to spin things in favor of Mr. Jackson by ignoring how he was going to make a two movie film for $75 million dollars and a watered down script until Miramax got cold feet.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-10-17 at 05:33 PM.
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  2. #7042
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    Like some other Grand Story shows, constantly going back and forth between connecting stories tends to brush past a lot of potential for world/character building.

    I think a show like this could have been done over several seasons where each season focuses one the different races and what they are dealing with.

    Start with the Elves, then the Southlands, then the Dwarves, then the Harfoots. And in each season, wrap it up with how it is connected to the BBEG.
    Perhaps, I'm not entirely sure making LoTR Elves the main focus was a good idea in general. They're immortal and far removed from humans, also a lot of their life is covered in stuff amazon doesn't have the rights too.

    I definitely think moving the Harfoots to a later season would be a good idea. Other than the Stranger maybe being Sauron their story had literally 0 impact on anything else. Who even are the wraith ladies?

  3. #7043
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    I definitely think moving the Harfoots to a later season would be a good idea. Other than the Stranger maybe being Sauron their story had literally 0 impact on anything else. Who even are the wraith ladies?
    I'd somewhat agree here too. Aside from introducing the Harfoots for the sake of it, they don't seem to be an important part of the narrative moving forward outside of Nori with the Traveller. Aside from the meteor falling and the intentional red herring of Stranger being Sauron, the arc didn't really have much of a place in S1 at all, considering they still haven't given a definitive identity to the character, and his story arc never intertwines with the main plot, and didn't really have enough to conclude itself in a satisfying way either. It felt drawn out and rushed at the same time, and out-of-place overall.

  4. #7044
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    What do we know of Arondir's story moving forward?
    He will got to Pelargir and hang with his girlfriend and presumed son. Arondir says it is "a fresh start" in the scene where Bronwyn says where they will go. Your grudge against the character is causing you to hold him to a higher standard then the rest.
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  5. #7045
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    He will got to Pelargir and hang with his girlfriend and presumed son. Arondir says it is "a fresh start" in the scene where Bronwyn says where they will go. Your grudge against the character is causing you to hold him to a higher standard then the rest.
    He's a POV character, of course I expect a higher standard than the rest. You won't see me asking what happens to Disa or Nori's Dad or the traitor dude who used the sword, because they aren't POV characters. Arondir isn't just a supporting character, he's the POV character of an entire arc, and one that the show focused on for many episodes.

    But hey, sorry if I hit a nerve in talking about your favourite character in the series, since you seem to keep replying to me any time I bring up Arondir.

  6. #7046
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    And what's even more odd is Arondir's story actually ends with the Southlanders proclaiming 'Strength to the King' while the latest episode reveals that Halbrand isn't a King at all. So that bit is left completely open ended, and Arondir's story is caught completely open with it. The entire Southlander plot line is actually left open with no conclusion at all with Halbrand's reveal, since it was implied that Halbrand would be the one leading the people. That isn't what will continue to be implied by the end of the last episode, he's shown on his own and heading deeper back into Mordor alone.
    This is actually a good point. You'd think Halbrand's plan at this point would be rally the southlanders. Galadriel isn't a big deal to them, but if he's their king and helps them out, they'd likely ignore when the 'knife ear' lady comes by and says their king is evil. Maybe give them some rings with power to help them defend against Adar's orcs.

    Heck, since Galadriel is so afraid to tell people the truth (and its clear he knows this as he taunts her with it), Halbrand should be rather free to operate as he pleases. If he's being kind and helpful, Galadriel is stuck trying to undermine a helpful person without explaining her reasoning.

  7. #7047
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    He's a POV character, of course I expect a higher standard than the rest.
    Yet you have a double standard when compared to the other POV characters. As none of their motivations or "what they will do in Season 2" is any different then what we know Arondir will do. Who said he is my favorite character? Stop trying to deflect and turn childish just because your double standard is being called out for what it is. Heaven forbid someone reply to you. Lmao.
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  8. #7048
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And i ask again, did the show present him as jewel-smith? if so, then i stand correct, but i didn't saw once
    There's a line in episode 2 when he and Elrond are talking about the Silmarils. Even though Elrond says his (Celebrimbor's) works have turned the heart of many an elf, Celebrimbor says he aspires to make something on Fëanor's level instead of "petty works of jewelcraft" which he says as he gestures towards one of the tables in his workshop.

    Between this and the lack of evidence to the contrary it seems pretty clear that the show was maintaining with the lore that Celebrimbor's works were primarily in jewelcraft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Or something 'borne" from the show bad writing
    Why did you use quotes for the word "borne"?

    As for "bad guy want to make two? lets make three!!" is only an issue if you already know about the One Ring (which of course the characters don't know about yet). Based on what Galadriel knows at this time, Sauron was looking to make the two rings to empower himself and Galadriel if she came to his side. With his plans revealed and his offer refused, it makes sense for for the rings to be made to use AGAINST Sauron and Galadriel explains why three is better than two for keeping a balance of power between the ring bearers.

  9. #7049
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Tbf, I still have trouble with the fact that Sauron has a human visage at all. He is supposed to be 2,5 meters tall in a spiky plate armor and swinging a mace the size of halve a Galadriel. This feels... diminishing. I really hope that this is just a form he took, like the Anatar one, and it will not be revealed that Maia are in fact just looking like humans.
    That's because Halbrand is a show invention.

    In reality, Sauron took on the guise of Annatar, an elf who was revered by the other elves as very fair and beautiful. This worked because Sauron is a Maiar and the elves are the one race that were allowed to live in Valinor, the land of the Maiar and Valar. With this form, Annatar enthralled the elves and got close with Celebrimbor, eventually convincing him to forge the Rings.

    I'm still hoping Annatar appears in the future simply because he's stylish and beautiful:


  10. #7050
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    Like some other Grand Story shows, constantly going back and forth between connecting stories tends to brush past a lot of potential for world/character building.

    I think a show like this could have been done over several seasons where each season focuses one the different races and what they are dealing with.

    Start with the Elves, then the Southlands, then the Dwarves, then the Harfoots. And in each season, wrap it up with how it is connected to the BBEG.
    Exactly. They could have used Sauron to tie it all together because he was present in most of those locations. Perhaps even use the migrating Harfoots as another perspective that tied events and how those events changed Middle-Earth as they traveled through it.

    Instead they butcher the lore in the most obnoxious ways possible which wasn't necessary in the slightest and the end product is a mess of a storyline.

    Seasons as semi-self contained stories with Anatar/Sauron as the anchor would have been so much better. Sauron didn't need to be a mystery to the viewer.(or tried to be because it was pretty obvious who Sauron was from the first episode he was introduced).
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

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  11. #7051
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Yet you have a double standard when compared to the other POV characters. As none of their motivations or "what they will do in Season 2" is any different then what we know Arondir will do. Who said he is my favorite character? Stop trying to deflect and turn childish just because your double standard is being called out for what it is. Heaven forbid someone reply to you. Lmao.
    I literally listed every motivation of the other POV characters and you ignore it to say there's a double standard, lol.

    How about you actually take the context of the conversation into account when you reply? You're so full of bad faith bullshit lol.

  12. #7052
    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    Yeah but by the looks of it they don't need to be amplified - the Mithril can solo heal. It's the Light of the freakin' Silmarils.




    Aye in the original story, the power of the rings were tied to Sauron. But they're not anymore. The light in the Mithril is separate(as explained with the story when the elf fought the Balrog). So there's no in-lore reason for the Rings to "lose their light" or their power anymore.



    It will be - if Mithril can keep the corruption at bay as a natural resource.



    The Mithril backstory smacked of dualism (profoundly against Tolkien’s ethos) and writing shortcuts. This change has sent ripples throughout the whole lore - and frankly with the points above I am struggling to see how they can reasonably explain it.
    You should take a step back and consider how much of this is your head canon, no offense meant. You seem to have some very clear ideas about the “mechanics” of magic in middle earth.

  13. #7053
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    That's because Halbrand is a show invention.

    In reality, Sauron took on the guise of Annatar, an elf who was revered by the other elves as very fair and beautiful. This worked because Sauron is a Maiar and the elves are the one race that were allowed to live in Valinor, the land of the Maiar and Valar. With this form, Annatar enthralled the elves and got close with Celebrimbor, eventually convincing him to forge the Rings.

    I'm still hoping Annatar appears in the future simply because he's stylish and beautiful:
    From what I've heard others talk about, Annatar is specifically a creation from the Silmarillion. Amazon only has the rights to Lord of the Rings and its Appendices. The name Annatar never appears in the Appendices, so on a technical level, Amazon doesn't have the rights to the character or his story.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    You should take a step back and consider how much of this is your head canon, no offense meant. You seem to have some very clear ideas about the “mechanics” of magic in middle earth.
    It's not head canon. It's what the show literally explained Mithril to be. Elrond explains the backstory of the light of the Silmarils seeping into the earth to become Mithril, and Celebrimbor and Durin both witness Mithril having properties that can stave off the corruption. What are you pointing at as being headcanon? This is literally what the show has made Mithril out to be.

  14. #7054
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    From what I've heard others talk about, Annatar is specifically a creation from the Silmarillion. Amazon only has the rights to Lord of the Rings and its Appendices. The name Annatar never appears in the Appendices, so on a technical level, Amazon doesn't have the rights to the character or his story.
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  15. #7055
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    No. Miramax wasn't funding the movie and he was authorized to shop it around under the condition Mirmax gets reimbursed. It was that cut version he was trying to get another studio to pick up. New Line after hearing his pitch asked him to restore his script and even make it grander. That isn't a lie as my earlier article indicated. The amusing part is you are the one trying to spin things in favor of Mr. Jackson by ignoring how he was going to make a two movie film for $75 million dollars and a watered down script until Miramax got cold feet.
    Not what the sources say, dude. Stop lying. Jackson tried for three movies, Miramax tried to talk him down to one 2 hour movie with drastic cuts to the story, which Jackson outright refused. Weinstein threatened to replace him, Jackson stood his ground. He pitched the agreed upon two movies to New Line, they instead proposed a trilogy. New Line and Jackson shared the rights for the Final Cut, but New Line simply let him do his thing and never interfered with the creative process. New Line financed the movie, Jackson made it. Did New Line have a major contribution in making the movie? Yes. Were they the reason the movies were made to begin with? No. Are they the major reason we got the movies? No.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Stop trying to deflect (...)
    You could beat someone to death with the irony here.

  16. #7056
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    That's because Halbrand is a show invention.

    In reality, Sauron took on the guise of Annatar, an elf who was revered by the other elves as very fair and beautiful. This worked because Sauron is a Maiar and the elves are the one race that were allowed to live in Valinor, the land of the Maiar and Valar. With this form, Annatar enthralled the elves and got close with Celebrimbor, eventually convincing him to forge the Rings.

    I'm still hoping Annatar appears in the future simply because he's stylish and beautiful:
    Oh I know that. But Elves are different. Mythical, perfect (in any source apart from this show), while Halbrand is just a normal and literally dirty human, it feels wrong for a Maiar, but I guess Gandalf also looked like a pretty dirty human, though he still had a much better aura about him (being played by one of the greatest actors of this planet did help too)

  17. #7057
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    Sauron didn't need to be a mystery to the viewer.(or tried to be because it was pretty obvious who Sauron was from the first episode he was introduced).
    Season 1 could almost be called the prequel for the show. Similar to how Season 1 of House of the Dragons time jumps after setting up stuff. They've stated Season 2 Sauron will be inspired by Breaking Bad and The Sopranos. Sauron will be a complex bad guy. They just didn't want to jump right in. Fans of LotR likely wouldn't need it but not every viewer is a fan. They certainly could have executed it better though.

    It would be very tempting to make the first season of this show The Sauron Show, very villain-centric,” McKay says. “But we wanted that level of evil and complexity of evil to emerge out of a world that you’re invested in — not because evil is threatening it immediately. We wanted you to fall in love again with Middle-earth. We wanted you to understand and relate to the struggles that each of these characters are having before we test them in a way they’ve never been tested before.https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv...-2-1235233124/
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  18. #7058
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    From what I've heard others talk about, Annatar is specifically a creation from the Silmarillion. Amazon only has the rights to Lord of the Rings and its Appendices. The name Annatar never appears in the Appendices, so on a technical level, Amazon doesn't have the rights to the character or his story.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's not head canon. It's what the show literally explained Mithril to be. Elrond explains the backstory of the light of the Silmarils seeping into the earth to become Mithril, and Celebrimbor and Durin both witness Mithril having properties that can stave off the corruption. What are you pointing at as being headcanon? This is literally what the show has made Mithril out to be.
    And how do you explain Annatar appearing as a brief cameo in the movie trilogy (granted the scene in question was deleted, but it was also filmed in the first place)?


  19. #7059
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    You should take a step back and consider how much of this is your head canon, no offense meant. You seem to have some very clear ideas about the “mechanics” of magic in middle earth.
    Nothing I have written is headcanon my friend. Tolkien's version is what it is - and the show explained their version. It's a major retcon and it's all out there.

  20. #7060
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I literally listed every motivation of the other POV characters and you ignore it to say there's a double standard, lol.
    Right. You accepting their motivation but not that of Arondir is the double standard in the context of the discussion. I'm not sure how you missed that.
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