So turns out, Dracthyr design isn't half so bad...

[Hitei]

They're skeleton is terrible, they're more-so Salamanders than dragons.

Only if you completely and totally ignore what actual dragons in wow look like.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I'd argue, in regards to druid froms, besides the plausible multiple mentions of glyph of stars already, that turning into a proper animal (instead of a crippled and mangled chicken, seriously, owlbears and other owlkin are actually kinda cool animals in D&D and other franchises, it's just WoW's version that looks utterly pathetic) is a large part of the druid fantasy. The fantasy of Evokers (if you can call that even fantasy..) is not to turn into an actual dragon, you are still just a discount draconid (if even that), so your draconic form is just your normal self, like a worgen.

As a bipedal creature with a rather standard body shape besides some talons, a tail and wings, you'd usually expect them to be able to wear a bunch of armor parts. Unlike a bear, which is mostly just a beast. So I think it's understandable that many people think it's rather lame that Blizzard skimped out on doing a proper job here, because all those armor-as-character-customizations become pointless rather fast the moment you can't select a fitting color scheme and general visual theme for them. Their first tier set already shows this splendidly, heck even the starter armor 10 quests in does.

If I had to guess they realized that their utterly pathetic 1990's robe design in WoW making the already awful animations of drakthyr look even worse, despite being casters.

[Ielenia]

Source?

The number of players complaining that Blizzard needs to update give balance's moonkin form more options other considering all they got until now was an HD update.

And the dracthyr dragon forms also have tons of visual options.

That heavily clash with your transmog, because if you don't want to look like a character straight out of TBC, you'd have to make your visage transmog match the "barber shop 'armor'" that your dracthyr has.

The argument works just fine because we have 11 other classes that show full armor in combat, yet the Druid class beats all of them with their "crippled" transmog visibility.

It doesn't work. Because that argument ignores everything to put that single issue in a vacuum. One big thing your argument ignores, is the fact that druids not only are a staple of RPG classes, but also are basically the encapsulation of the Warcraft 3 night elf race. Something the dracthyr completely lack considering they're a completely new race that never existed in the game and/or lore whatsoever until now.

Completely irrelevant.

Because you say so?

Anecdotal evidence at its best.

As anecdotal as this:

Also, there's plenty of balance Druids who run around without the glyph.

Funny how you dismiss what I say as "anecdotal", yet you see no problem whatsoever in making anecdotal claims yourself.

[Teriz]

The number of players complaining that Blizzard needs to update give balance's moonkin form more options other considering all they got until now was an HD update.

So in other words no real evidence to back up your claim.

Cool.

That heavily clash with your transmog, because if you don't want to look like a character straight out of TBC, you'd have to make your visage transmog match the "barber shop 'armor'" that your dracthyr has.

Wearing armor in dracthyr form is optional, just like Druid animal form. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Dracthyrs running around not wearing any armor in dragon form.

It doesn't work. Because that argument ignores everything to put that single issue in a vacuum. One big thing your argument ignores, is the fact that druids not only are a staple of RPG classes, but also are basically the encapsulation of the Warcraft 3 night elf race. Something the dracthyr completely lack considering they're a completely new race that never existed in the game and/or lore whatsoever until now.

A completely irrelevant argument. Again, if not seeing your armor was such a deal breaker, Druids wouldn’t be the most popular class in WoW.

As anecdotal as this:

Funny how you dismiss what I say as "anecdotal", yet you see no problem whatsoever in making anecdotal claims yourself.

Except the default form for balance Druids is the Moonkin form without the glyph. You’re arguing that a cosmetic item is more common among players than the default that they all get at level 10, and that’s just silly.

[Ielenia]

So in other words no real evidence to back up your claim.

You're also coming at this with no evidence.

Wearing armor in dracthyr form is optional, just like Druid animal form. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Dracthyrs running around not wearing any armor in dragon form.

So your solution to the clash in customization is to not customize? That instead of making use of the customization options, they should instead make their dracthyr be naked?

A completely irrelevant argument.

I'm starting to believe you think "irrelevant" means "debunks my argument".

Except the default form for balance Druids is the Moonkin form without the glyph. You’re arguing that a cosmetic item is more common among players than the default that they all get at level 10, and that’s just silly.

That's not the argument. I said that the majority of balance druids (if not the overwhelming majority of them) use the glyph of stars, because they don't like the moonkin form, especially since it's been left relatively untouched save for an HD remake since its inception.

[Le Conceptuel]

I'm still on the fence. In a vacuum, the design is good. But it looks very awkward and incongruous against the other designs in the game. There are some options that help to remedy that, but it doesn't change that their beanpole-lizard design just doesn't look right, especially for Warcraft Dragons (which they're trying to invoke). There's a reason I was on such copium when they were first leaked—they just don't fit.

[Mace]

it just an male elf and a female human with some scales on it, it's bad and lazy even fi they add 60 hairstyles



definitely not, people are just getting trap by the quality of today tools

I'm confused, what do you expect? The dragon model is entirely unique, and it has the bonus of having a sub-race form you can use if you don't like monster forms - and that sub-race happens to trump all the other existing ones -- how can it be bad when it's the best sub race for humans and elves they've done yet, not to mention (again) you get an entirely unique dragon form. Did you want the visage form to be an entirely new model - new rig animations? You got that in the dragon form already, the rest is bonus, and that bonus is better than what everyone else has atm.


As I said, you won't like Dracthyr if you don't like monster races and hate humans and elves. You might like monster races, but not that type of monster, as well as like humanoid races, but not elves and humans.., Then it's just the case that Dracthyr aren't for you - but maybe worgen and Tauren are, or Vulpera, it hardly makes the effort lazy.

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I like the dragon form but the humanoid form is terrible, hate the hazelnut shape of their head.
If they had given them the ability to take the appearance of other races I would have considered playing one but the current sate is an absolute no go.

You mean on the female? I thought that was a bit weird-ish, but at least the faces/heads are unique even if the body is human/elf.

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Yea. I get you. I mean, i also do like the customization for both, even tho my first impression was horrible back then, but i still... aaaam disappointed the transmogging is just... I dont even know. I dont need just belts and shoulders, ya know?



Fair point to make. But i still feel like this is something else. I also don't think they don't mind. Most druids i met in my raids did indeed find that at least somewhat sad or annoying that the customization was so limited and they essentially never see anything of their Tier-Sets. But granted, if you play with people long enough, and all...

I would be interesting if the Evoker class is the one that demands a form duality - because if the Dracthyr later become other classes, there would be no need to force change into either form, and you could perma stay in either visage or dragon form for combat.. up to you.

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I just think this is another of those issues that are simply being blown out of proportion by a certain segment of the community. The people who are going to seriously play the new class (or main it) don't care and fully understand that in dragon form you're just not going to see your armor. It's simply part of the class. It's exactly like Druid players who have long accepted that entering combat form is going to obscure or outright remove their equipable armor.

I would like to hear what there reason is for not allowing full gear xmoggable on the dragon form, it does sound that they would win over a large portion of naysayers with that feature. And while the current dragon armour works, off course everyone would want their xmoggable items.


Still someone like me is okay with not being able to fully xmog my dragon form, /shrug, how would I feel with being able to xmog it, - maybe they fel tit felt a lot less dragony and more lizard like

But I suspect they'd have to do 4 iterations of chest pieces to cope for the size differential..- but I'm just guessing here. I suspect the option will come.

[Teriz]

You're also coming at this with no evidence.

https://wowanalytica.com/statistics

+Shows that Druids are the most popular class.
+Shows that Guardian is the second most popular Druid spec.

Quite odd if not having visible transmog in combat form is a death sentence for a class.

So your solution to the clash in customization is to not customize? That instead of making use of the customization options, they should instead make their dracthyr be naked?

No. I'm saying that there are plenty of options to make the Dracthyr look the way you like. Even more than what Druids get with their Moonkin, Bear, Cat, and Tree forms.

Yet some folks still want to whine and complain....

That's not the argument. I said that the majority of balance druids (if not the overwhelming majority of them) use the glyph of stars...

And again, you have ZERO evidence to back that statement up.

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I would like to hear what there reason is for not allowing full gear xmoggable on the dragon form, it does sound that they would win over a large portion of naysayers with that feature. And while the current dragon armour works, off course everyone would want their xmoggable items.


Still someone like me is okay with not being able to fully xmog my dragon form, /shrug, how would I feel with being able to xmog it, - maybe they fel tit felt a lot less dragony and more lizard like

But I suspect they'd have to do 4 iterations of chest pieces to cope for the size differential..- but I'm just guessing here. I suspect the option will come.

I believe that like you, most people whining in this thread will also be totally fine with the options offered. Just like the thread where people complained about Dracthyr mastery being useless, until raid testers showed how awesome the mastery was in raids and dungeons.

[shise]

I've tested them on Beta as well. I don't think they fit into WoW's graphics style at all.

Also the new Dragonkin (especially the mob you have to escort at the beginning of DF quests in the first zone) have an AWFUL running animation. They just fling their arms around while running, it just looks ridiculous.

Remember, the whole reason the exist is copying FF14 as much as possible to drag in all that kind of player base. Make numbers (this is not new either)
Hence having this current dev´s team so PC oriented... an attempt at cleaning their past mess and drag more .."trendy" players in.

So of course it doesn´t fit. But this is not WoW anymore nor it´s original team anyway, so expect a lot more souless things to come.

That said, I hope and wish that I am very wrong.

[melzas]

Yeah they have a lot of customisation options but at the cost of pretty much being unable to use transmog. I think standard races get a lot more customisation via transmog than dracthyr ever will.

[Celement]

I mean... the classic dragonkin look better then them. It's hard to call that a win.

It's like they know players avoid monstrous races so they tried to split the child.

[Toppy]

So I guess we really are going to pretend that Druids haven't constantly complained about lack of customization. Pointing out that druid is the most played is pointless when their most common complaint for wow entire life span is exactly that they cant show off their gear.

Also seeing a lot of people trying to act like the Drakthyr model not being able to wear armor is somehow some set in stone thing, as if blizzard arent the ones who made the game and thus had the option to design them a rig that can actually wear armor, rather than lazily give them a modified version of the Dreadlord model. But I guess defending blizzards bad decisions is just a thing.

Constantly repeating that the model looks great isnt really a defense of their no transmog. Saying that the sparkle elf none-dragon model that cant be used in combat looks great also isnt a defense of their lack of mogging. All that is is saying that it looks great with no armor, it in no way excuses the lack of mog options.

[Teriz]

So I guess we really are going to pretend that Druids haven't constantly complained about lack of customization. Pointing out that druid is the most played is pointless when their most common complaint for wow entire life span is exactly that they cant show off their gear.

People complaining about it is irrelelvant. A couple of people whining about it on the internet hasn't prevented Druids from being the most played class in the game. Just like the lack of armor on the Dracthyr model won't stop people from playing this class.

If the lack of visible armor in dragon form bothers you, roll something else. You have multiple alternative options.

[SoundOfGuns]

I just think this is another of those issues that are simply being blown out of proportion by a certain segment of the community. The people who are going to seriously play the new class (or main it) don't care and fully understand that in dragon form you're just not going to see your armor. It's simply part of the class. It's exactly like Druid players who have long accepted that entering combat form is going to obscure or outright remove their equipable armor.

Way to call me out! But... you are probably not wrong. It just disappointed me. Im probably also a niche audience who is somehow both doing (well, used to anyway) mythic raiding AND hunting Transmoggs to change every 24 hours. But i also did not really consider druids in all of that. To me they compare more to Worgen, so...

But... i will "die on that hill" that there is no real reason for the limitations. At least i would like more armor options.

[Auburst]

Only if you completely and totally ignore what actual dragons in wow look like.

It for sure doesn't look like anything close to those feminine Salamanders. Nothing but wings says they have something to do with wow dragons.

Blizzard fucked up BIG.

[Flarelaine]

The most popular class in the game has you in a non-transmoggable animal form during combat, and players have never seemed to care. In fact they go wild when more forms come out for it.

Hey, those forms are cool!

Too bad I already had as many characters as I could juggle and no druid by the time Legion came out. Oh, well. Maybe in Classic Legion.

[Berkilak]

Quite odd if not having visible transmog in combat form is a death sentence for a class.

It isn't. But that doesn't mean that players are satisfied with and supporting of that lack of customization, either.

[Teriz]

It isn't. But that doesn't mean that players are satisfied with and supporting of that lack of customization, either.

Which is fine. However there's a difference between not being satisfied and saying the class is going to tank or that it sucks because they can't show transmog on dragon forms.

[Berkilak]

Which is fine. However there's a difference between not being satisfied and saying the class is going to tank or that it sucks because they can't show transmog on dragon forms.

Very true. But it remains disingenuous to imply that this lack of customization isn't problematic just because people play it. It reeks of this particular attitude:



I plan to main Evoker. Probably for the remainder of WoW's lifespan. But this lack of transmog options is going to be eternally annoying.

[Teriz]

Very true. But it remains disingenuous to imply that this lack of customization isn't problematic just because people play it. It reeks of this particular attitude:
I plan to main Evoker. Probably for the remainder of WoW's lifespan. But this lack of transmog options is going to be eternally annoying.

But who is it annoying to? Does temporarily not being able to see armor somehow impede your ability to play or enjoy the class? If so that's totally a personal issue that revolves entirely around personal taste.